full
Episode 371 - Popping Balloons
In this episode we discuss:
(00:00) Episode 371
(00:27) Introduction
(02:04) The Balloon
(24:12) Pell Buried
(30:46) Lidia Thorpe
(33:49) RoboDebt
(44:01) Albo had a beer
(45:46) Jim Chalmers
(48:30) Aukus
(52:51) Jimmy Dore
(58:27) Patrons
(01:01:00) Chat GPT
(01:03:27) The Guardian
(01:10:18) Narratives are made up
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You can email trevor at ironfistvelvetglove.com.au
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Transcript
We need to talk about ideas, good ones and bad ones.
Speaker:We need to learn stuff about the world.
Speaker:We need an honest, intelligent, thought provoking and entertaining
Speaker:review of what the hell happened on this planet in the last seven days.
Speaker:We need to sit back and listen to the Iron Pest and the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:Yes, what the hell happened in the last seven days?
Speaker:We'll review it.
Speaker:We'll talk about it because this is a podcast, dear listener, where we talk
Speaker:about news and politics, sex and religion.
Speaker:You look at what's happened in the last seven days in Australia, around the world.
Speaker:Give our little spin on it.
Speaker:Try to figure it out.
Speaker:With me, I'm Trevor, a k a, the Iron, Fist with me, Joe, the tech guy.
Speaker:How are you, Joe?
Speaker:I'm good.
Speaker:You.
Speaker:Not too bad, thanks.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:What's happened in the last seven days?
Speaker:Well, if you told me last week that weather balloons across the USA
Speaker:would be a thing, would've thought it was unlikely, if you dunno
Speaker:whether you'd have believed it.
Speaker:boom.
Speaker:Boom.
Speaker:. Yes.
Speaker:So we're gonna talk about that because it's, you know,
Speaker:and just how it's portrayed.
Speaker:That's the interesting part about it.
Speaker:Why would people portray it the way they have?
Speaker:What are the agendas that are being run?
Speaker:And then we'll talk about some Australian stuff.
Speaker:Cardinal Pell was buried.
Speaker:Lydia quit the Greens, robo Dead Inquiry.
Speaker:Bunch of other things like that.
Speaker:So, look, if you're not sure about some of the topics on
Speaker:your phone, hopefully your app.
Speaker:We'll show chapters and the list of topics will be there.
Speaker:If you wanna skip one, you can skip it or if you wanna
Speaker:repeat one, it should be easy.
Speaker:So have a look on your, on your app and see if you can see the chapters.
Speaker:That makes it easier to zoom around our topics.
Speaker:So if you're in the chat room, say hello already, we've got
Speaker:essential Lord, Don and James.
Speaker:Good on you guys.
Speaker:Make your comments.
Speaker:We'll try and incorporate them right Joe.
Speaker:So a balloon in the USA a weather balloon has caused us commentators went crazy.
Speaker:A large weather balloon.
Speaker:And the question was where did it come from and what was it doing there?
Speaker:And because it seemed to come from China, the answer of what was it doing?
Speaker:There could only be one thing and that was evil, nasty things
Speaker:from this weather balloon.
Speaker:So, I'll play you some clips so you can get a bit of a feeling
Speaker:for just just how America was responding to this balloon pneumonia.
Speaker:So we'll play a little bit of that so you get a feel for what was happening.
Speaker:Fox News alert, it is day two of balloon watch.
Speaker:The Chinese spy glimpses about to hit Illinois and is creeping towards
Speaker:the East coast, so the Kami spy balloon penetrated our airspace.
Speaker:If citizens hadn't spotted this thing yesterday, the government
Speaker:would've covered it up.
Speaker:It's almost like China has Biden by the balloons.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
Speaker:I haven't been very specific cuz that information's classified and I'm just
Speaker:not gonna be able to talk about it.
Speaker:That balloon should have been blown sky high the minute that it crossed
Speaker:us airspace, and every single second that it hangs there is another reminder
Speaker:of just how owned our politicians, our system, our businesses are
Speaker:by the Chinese Communist Party.
Speaker:It says, you know, officials tell cnn, the US has not ruled out
Speaker:shooting down this spy balloon once it is deemed safe to do so.
Speaker:Does the US need to bring this balloon down?
Speaker:I, I think the United States has to take control of this balloon.
Speaker:There are two things that are of great concern here.
Speaker:One is that it's been determined to be a surveillance balloon, which means
Speaker:that it's gathering intelligence.
Speaker:That's the purpose of surveillance.
Speaker:If Biden pops to the Chinese balloon, it'll do more to unite the country
Speaker:than any of his stupid policies.
Speaker:Everybody wants that thing lit up.
Speaker:Give us a moment of unity, Joe.
Speaker:We're begging you look alive.
Speaker:Mr.
Speaker:President, when
Speaker:that last shouting and screaming was a press conference where the press
Speaker:gallery was shouting at the president as he left saying, when and how
Speaker:is he gonna deal with the balloon?
Speaker:Well, he didn't he Cuz he's deaf.
Speaker:Apparently he's old . Yeah.
Speaker:So a surveillance balloon, Joe, I mean this is one of the key parts in reading
Speaker:about all this is the reference to the balloon as a surveillance balloon.
Speaker:Well, Joe, if it's just a normal weather balloon, it would still be a
Speaker:surveillance balloon, I would've thought.
Speaker:Surveilling the weather.
Speaker:Normal weather balloons don't have motors, propellers on them
Speaker:to move them around, right?
Speaker:They don't, no.
Speaker:Did this one.
Speaker:This one does, apparently.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it, it seems so many years ago it was decided that Sputnik wouldn't
Speaker:be challenged because the US wanted to overly Russia with SP satellites.
Speaker:And so convention has said that a hundred kilometers is the limit
Speaker:at which your airspace ends.
Speaker:And anything that's below a hundred kilometers is deemed an
Speaker:intrusion into your airspace.
Speaker:Is this, is this a gentleman's agreement or is this written down in
Speaker:a treaty that America has not signed?
Speaker:Is there some treaty?
Speaker:That's, that's a good question.
Speaker:I don't know, but certainly it's, it's convention, right?
Speaker:That a hundred kilometers is the limit.
Speaker:So if you're up above a hundred kilometers fair game below, you need, if it's an,
Speaker:if it's a completely unguided balloon, you would at least give a heads up
Speaker:that it was heading in that direction.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Now also don't forget that during the Second World War balloons came
Speaker:from Asia to America and they were part of a Japanese bombing rate.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:The Japanese had discovered the jet stream and had released balloons up into the
Speaker:jet stream to bomb the US West coast, and apparently they blew up a few trees,
Speaker:really up in the forest of the Pacific Northwest is that didn't, didn't manage
Speaker:to do much damage, but they were used as a bombing campaign in the second World War.
Speaker:Is that right?
Speaker:I'd never heard that.
Speaker:So that's a good one.
Speaker:So, actually I'll just put the wrong video up.
Speaker:Hang on.
Speaker:I'm just gonna grab this other video.
Speaker:Not Tucker Carlson.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Gotta play.
Speaker:Yeah, gotta play.
Speaker:This is what we do on this podcast, Joe, is we scour the internet and
Speaker:get stuff from the left and the right and well this is an enjoy.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:Yes, Tucker Carlson's response to it, . There is, by the way, a Chinese spy
Speaker:balloon playing over the United States.
Speaker:Pentagon does not wanna shoot it down.
Speaker:Why would you wanna shoot a Chinese spy balloon down?
Speaker:That seems mean and racist.
Speaker:Why are they shooting it down?
Speaker:George Santos.
Speaker:George Santos.
Speaker:We'll have more on it next.
Speaker:Some people voluntarily watch his show . What, what does Santos have to do at all?
Speaker:I dunno, it's just craziness, isn't it?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. So, so, so Joe, are you working on the theory then?
Speaker:Like in all of my reading on this balloon, I never came across
Speaker:anything about where the balloons and never have any sort of propulsion.
Speaker:And this one did.
Speaker:And I dunno, this to your suspicion, it seems weird.
Speaker:It seems to be provocative if nothing else, right?
Speaker:You know, there wasn't a, Hey, heads up, there's a weather
Speaker:balloon coming in your direction.
Speaker:And by the way, this one's steerable, which is totally unusable.
Speaker:I know that they're picking up the pieces, so they have shut it down.
Speaker:They're gonna pick up the pieces.
Speaker:It'll be interesting to see what they find in it and how much isn't classified.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The Chinese put out a statement, which was this.
Speaker:The airship is from China.
Speaker:It is a civilian airship used for research, mainly meteorological purposes
Speaker:affected by the westerlies, and with limited self-steering capability.
Speaker:The airship deviated far from its planned course.
Speaker:The Chinese side regrets the unintended entry of the airship
Speaker:into US airspace due to force maur.
Speaker:The Chinese side will continue communicating with the US side and
Speaker:properly handle this unexpected situation caused by force Ma.
Speaker:So let's kin's razor if, if it was, yeah, but I mean, if it was Even
Speaker:just a provocative act, even if it wasn't anything particularly,
Speaker:of course they say that.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:. That's right.
Speaker:So what can you do?
Speaker:Like, what can you do if it words are just meaningless, aren't they?
Speaker:Because Absolutely.
Speaker:Because if it was an accident and you said it's an accident,
Speaker:well of course you'd say that.
Speaker:And if it wasn't an accident, then you'd say it wasn't accident.
Speaker:Cause that's what you I'm, I'm, I'm sure Gary Powers was, you know, just Yeah.
Speaker:Checking out the atmosphere before he was shot down.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just checking out the weather above Russia.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, really my view at this stage, best guess would be, well, Alkins Razor is
Speaker:if, if you're unsure of the explanation, the simplest, least conspiratorial
Speaker:one is probably the most accurate.
Speaker:Isn't that how it works?
Speaker:I think it's the aliens escaping outta Roswell.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It could be that.
Speaker:Look, it's entirely possible it was just a weather balloon that got outta control and
Speaker:hey, oh shit, look, that's where it is.
Speaker:And you know, maybe these things happen all the time and nobody
Speaker:gets upset and maybe this time, you know, people got upset unexpectedly.
Speaker:I mean, I, I know that there are, there are amateur balloons as in
Speaker:not run by government people release them with transponders on board
Speaker:and track them across and they have circumnavigated the globe, right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Which would be an interesting thing to do.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But they're not huge balloons that are in airspace and yeah.
Speaker:Run by governments.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, you start asking questions when that happens.
Speaker:If, if they're wanting to spy on something below.
Speaker:Oh, I, I don't think it's wanting to spy on something below.
Speaker:I think it's just see how far you can push the limits, really.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So you just think it was potentially just a bit of provocation.
Speaker:We'll just poke the beer and watch them squirm type of thing?
Speaker:Possibly not the Chinese.
Speaker:I like it if they did, but yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well, I mean, the Russians were doing it to the uk.
Speaker:The Russians were probing the Scottish air defense boundaries, right.
Speaker:Not that long ago.
Speaker:Three, four years ago.
Speaker:What, what were they probing it with?
Speaker:Oh, fighter planes.
Speaker:They were flying right up to the limits.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:Yep, yep.
Speaker:So yeah, could've been just toying with them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Well, well, apparently the idea is you draw out the aired fence and
Speaker:you see how reactive people are.
Speaker:So you get an idea of the strength of the forces if you were to ever attack.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I mean, if China were to ever attack the USA with a fleet of balloons,
Speaker:they have gathered intelligence now as to what the US response might be.
Speaker:Well, maybe if you're surveilling what radar systems they've
Speaker:got, what would light up?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Essential Lord Don says in the chat room, the problem is if you shoot down
Speaker:a Chinese spy balloon half an hour later, you wanna shoot down another.
Speaker:It's not a macers, it's reference to Chinese food.
Speaker:That's good.
Speaker:Essential Lord Don.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ah, what have people said on Twitter?
Speaker:Jason Hickle to us Americans.
Speaker:Your welfare is not threatened by a balloon.
Speaker:It is threatened by a ruling class that denies you access to
Speaker:healthcare, affordable housing, modern transit, living wages, proper
Speaker:voting rights, a stable client, and a decent chance of a living past 77.
Speaker:Know your enemy.
Speaker:What has Caitlin Johnston said, she said all major governments spy on each other
Speaker:constantly and China is no exception.
Speaker:But the Pentagon's own assessment, and she has a link to an article, is that
Speaker:the balloon does not create significant value added over and above what the PRC
Speaker:is likely able to collect through things like satellites in low earth orbit.
Speaker:That makes sense to me that there is no espionage value in a balloon because a
Speaker:satellite is going to be able to detect more staff than your balloon could.
Speaker:Seems likely to me generally.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:, I mean, obviously a balloon is closer to the earth than may be
Speaker:weaker things that it can pick up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Anyway, the Pentagon's own assessment is, the balloon does
Speaker:not create significant value added.
Speaker:So, you'd be think if it was, they'd tell us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, so everyone's losing their minds over a balloon that in all probability
Speaker:would be mostly worthless for spying, even while everyone knows the US spies
Speaker:on China at every possible opportunity.
Speaker:This is the hypocrisy of it.
Speaker:It's the people who are ranting and raving about it are saying
Speaker:It's a goddamn Chinese spy balloon.
Speaker:How dare they spy on us?
Speaker:And of course, all, you know, any nation that can afford to is doing
Speaker:it all the time on its enemies.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:the balloon.
Speaker:No, but not even just their enemies.
Speaker:So major countries even spy on their own allies as when intelligence.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:When US intelligence bugged the cell phone of German chancellor, Angela Merkel.
Speaker:So the people who are railing over a spy balloon in the sky are the same people.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Michael was a communist that was allowed . Maybe she was, that's
Speaker:why they had a spy on her just to make sure from the ddr, wasn't she?
Speaker:Yeah, she probably ur candidate.
Speaker:So meanwhile, the BBC is reporting that the has secured access to four additional
Speaker:military bases in the Philippines.
Speaker:And Joe the Philippines are really close to Taiwan and the island on the
Speaker:Philippines that's the closest is now gonna get a series of military bases.
Speaker:So if you wanna talk about provocative military action in the last few weeks,
Speaker:then talk about us and Philippines coming to an agreement to whack even
Speaker:more military personnel and equipment within spitting distance of Taiwan on the
Speaker:closest Philippine island that's there.
Speaker:So that's, that's a provocative act.
Speaker:. So yeah.
Speaker:What does she say here?
Speaker:The US empire surrounding China with military bases in ways that Washington
Speaker:would never tolerate China doing in the waters surrounding the United States.
Speaker:And she says, ask an empire apologist to show you how China is aggressing
Speaker:against the us and they'll start babbling about TikTok and balloons.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Gotta put all in perspective, I think.
Speaker:Oh, I think buying third world countries up for their vote in the
Speaker:UN is fairly egregious, isn't it?
Speaker:He's doing that one.
Speaker:He's not doing that.
Speaker:Alright.
Speaker:And he's not doing it?
Speaker:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker:The US is funding.
Speaker:When I, when Israel votes for the us it's not doing so because Oh sure.
Speaker:It's doing so cuz the huge military funding it gets from the US Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The other thing that's allegedly America's guilt over Holocaust, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You see, America takes a pragmatic view of these things.
Speaker:Joe isn't mm-hmm.
Speaker:rather than buying all the votes, simply just ignore the vote.
Speaker:Let's carry.
Speaker:No, there is or veto it, you know, it's, yeah.
Speaker:That's what bought seats on the security council's for, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No need to, no need to buy votes when you can just ignore them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The Australian Why subscription to the Australian, I canceled that months
Speaker:ago, but my app is still giving me access so it's cuz they love you.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That could be it.
Speaker:So I'll continue reading it while they're providing it.
Speaker:And they had a report on the balloon, so this was in the Australian.
Speaker:And it reads relations between the world's two superpowers have hit their
Speaker:lowest point since Joe Biden entered the White House after the US military
Speaker:shot down a Chinese surveillance balloon off the coast of South Carolina.
Speaker:Now they're quoting, they're talking about labor's response.
Speaker:They say, deputy Prime Minister Richard Miles on Sunday condemned
Speaker:the use of the spy balloon.
Speaker:As foreign policy experts warned that China might already be using similar
Speaker:espionage tactics against Australia without the public's knowledge.
Speaker:So if you lodge a balloon from China, the, the, the air currents
Speaker:are loft, the winds are loft, we'll move according to the Australian.
Speaker:It could be a where, whereas if you wanted to launch it over Australia,
Speaker:you'd need to go to Gerland, maybe.
Speaker:Africa maybe.
Speaker:Maybe that's what they're so friendly with.
Speaker:The Africans.
Speaker:I don't know that anywhere in Southern Africa maybe.
Speaker:Mm mm I'll go on, on Sunday.
Speaker:A spokesman for Mr.
Speaker:Miles who has been visiting Washington for talks with defense officials.
Speaker:Said so this is a spokesman for Mr.
Speaker:Miles said Chinese.
Speaker:China's actions were inconsistent with international rules.
Speaker:For fuck's sake, they've just lost potentially just accident.
Speaker:Potentially a civilian Chinese company has lost control of an of a weather balloon.
Speaker:This expectation to follow global norms is no different in airspace than it is
Speaker:for activities at sea or on the ground.
Speaker:She said the operation of high altitude balloons must occur in accordance
Speaker:with international rules, including those stipulated by the International
Speaker:Civil Aviation organization.
Speaker:She said there were questions associated with the presence of a Chinese aircraft
Speaker:in US sovereign airspace, which is inconsistent with China's stated
Speaker:commitment to the rules and laws.
Speaker:And of course, what does the Australian do, but start quoting some think tanks.
Speaker:So former executive director of Aspi, Peter Jennings, said a
Speaker:spy balloon was being deployed.
Speaker:A spy balloon being deployed over Australia could definitely happen.
Speaker:Quote, there's no limits to where this technology could be used.
Speaker:He said, I think we are looking at here is new technology that Chinese are trialing.
Speaker:That means we should be on the lookout as well.
Speaker:Well, giga, were talking about doing a balloon internet link, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Elon had its okay style link.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Which is low earth orbit satellites.
Speaker:But they were talking of Google, but talking about basically using balloons.
Speaker:If I remember somebody was talking about using balloons.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:To do a much lower down radio link.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:To provide internet to rural, serv rural areas and just let them float around.
Speaker:Put enough of them up there.
Speaker:And I don't know that it was let them float around or whether
Speaker:they were gonna be tethered.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:But it was definitely, yeah.
Speaker:How do we get coverage at the right heights to cover a nice footprint?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:, what else have we got in this report from the Australian?
Speaker:Still quoting Douglas Wise, a former deputy director of US
Speaker:Defense Intelligence Agency.
Speaker:He's quoted now as saying that the Chinese balloon was part of the
Speaker:largest intelligence operation in the history of the human race against the
Speaker:US and Australia, only against the US and Australia, no other country.
Speaker:He says, he says, as quoted in the Australian.
Speaker:China already sees itself at war with the US and Australia.
Speaker:Even if we don't dismissing Beijing's claim that the balloon
Speaker:was a civilian weather aircraft that had drifted off course.
Speaker:What they did with the balloon is provocative and not worth the intel value.
Speaker:There has to be other value to it, Mr.
Speaker:Wise speculating speculated suggesting the Chinese could have
Speaker:been testing a potential weapons delivery or advanced sensor system.
Speaker:Well, we'll find out when they pick up the pieces, will we, oh,
Speaker:look, I do you trust anything Joe?
Speaker:They could lay out a whole bunch of pieces on a table and
Speaker:say, ah, we went to the spot.
Speaker:We got all this from the seabed.
Speaker:Here it is.
Speaker:Could you believe any of it?
Speaker:We couldn't.
Speaker:Could.
Speaker:What I wanna know is how come the debris trail is, it's, it's spread
Speaker:over 10 kilometers or something.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:They had, they, they used to have a balloon capturing thing
Speaker:back when satellites used to drop canisters down to Earth.
Speaker:They actually had a thing that a plane would fly along and catch.
Speaker:I think it was actually parachutes, but it would catch them in the air.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:The problem with that, Joe, is that people could then easily locate the
Speaker:pieces and determine what it was mm-hmm.
Speaker:In its original condition, whereas this way they're able to say, whoops,
Speaker:complete this can't work anything out.
Speaker:Well, they said his own shallow water, so Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Still quoting this this guy, Mr.
Speaker:Wise who was US Defense Intelligence Agency former deputy director.
Speaker:He said He says the Chinese have patience that is unlimited.
Speaker:They are dangerous because they don't have accountability and they
Speaker:don't operate under the rule of law or a moral frame of reference.
Speaker:I couldn't keep a straight face.
Speaker:I probably when he was writing it or saying it, he probably did, but yeah.
Speaker:Another guy, Patrick Lawrence, he's a longtime correspondent.
Speaker:He was foreign affairs commentator for 25 years.
Speaker:Chief Lee chiefly for the Far East and Economic Review, the International
Speaker:Herald Tribune and the New Yorker.
Speaker:And he said, we bono Joe Latin for to whom the good or more commonly who benefits.
Speaker:Who benefits, yeah.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. And his theory is that Blinken was about to go to China to
Speaker:try and improve relations.
Speaker:Supposedly it was the purpose of the trip.
Speaker:And by, by beating this up as to be bigger than Ben, her Blinken has
Speaker:canceled the trip and tensions therefore remain high between America and China.
Speaker:And if you're in the business of wanting high tension because you sell
Speaker:arms, arms or you run an organization that is designed to go to war and use
Speaker:those arms, then possibly the only person who's benefited is the Pentagon
Speaker:and the military industrial complex.
Speaker:That's his theory.
Speaker:Queen Bono.
Speaker:Will we ever know the truth?
Speaker:Hard to say.
Speaker:Oh, maybe in a hundred years time when the declassified papers come out.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:I think the petite advocate was onto it, Joe, their headline, read.
Speaker:Chinese spy balloon discovered to be elaborate.
Speaker:Gender reveal.
Speaker:It was a white balloon though.
Speaker:So it wasn't blue or pink, was it?
Speaker:It was exactly white powder.
Speaker:It's complete failure.
Speaker:Ah, right.
Speaker:Hello?
Speaker:In the chat room.
Speaker:What?
Speaker:Leave there.
Speaker:Noisy.
Speaker:Andrews there with essential Lord Don.
Speaker:And good on you guys.
Speaker:Make your comments.
Speaker:Cardinal Powell was buried.
Speaker:There was a service Joe.
Speaker:Another good one from the shovel article read.
Speaker:So Mary's Cathedral says if the protests get too disruptive, they will simply move
Speaker:Cardinal Pearl's body to another parish.
Speaker:Wouldn't be the first time.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And another guy said the Catholic church lays PE to rest in the hypo crypt.
Speaker:Hypo crypt.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. Boom.
Speaker:Boom.
Speaker:This isn't a joke.
Speaker:This is genuine.
Speaker:This is a tweet by, oh God, what's her name?
Speaker:She's right there in front of me, but I don't have her name.
Speaker:Peter Credlin.
Speaker:Peter Credlin.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:The funeral for Cardinal Pearl will be a chance for people of Faith Catholic
Speaker:and other faiths to give you out country's greatest Christian leader.
Speaker:A respectful farewell says guy News host Peter Credlin.
Speaker:He was the father at Gosford.
Speaker:Father at Gosford.
Speaker:He used to put the signs out.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I I think he's Australia's greatest leader.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Catholic leader.
Speaker:Well, he was Anglican, wasn't he?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But they said greatest Christian leader.
Speaker:They didn't Yes, true.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Ah, Remember, dear listener and those who want to sort of support Cardinal
Speaker:Pell, a Royal Commission in 2017 found he was, quote, conscious of child sexual
Speaker:abuse by clergy as early as 1973 and had failed to act on complaints about priests.
Speaker:Yeah, but come on, you can't expect him to act in 50 years.
Speaker:No, that's right.
Speaker:So, ah, dear listener, you've all, I know what you're thinking, you're thinking,
Speaker:does Trevor have some of the clip of Tony Abbott's eulogy, the Cardinal Powell and,
Speaker:oh God, I think I'm gonna avoid . What was the one that we were vomiting about?
Speaker:Oh just Enterprise last week.
Speaker:You doubt about the Murdochs?
Speaker:That was vomit inducing this one right up there.
Speaker:Here we go and wait for the applause.
Speaker:Dear Listener.
Speaker:He was never one to mince his words to the smug, to the venal, to the lazy, to the
Speaker:wayward, and to the intellectually sloppy.
Speaker:He was an existential reproach.
Speaker:And because that's all of us in some way, it's hardly surprising
Speaker:that he became a target.
Speaker:His recent observation that the climate change movement had some of
Speaker:the characteristics of a low level, not too demanding pseudo religion was
Speaker:the kind of comment that enraged its adherence, precisely because it was
Speaker:true and throughout history, that's what people have been martyred for, for
Speaker:telling the unpopular unpalatable truth.
Speaker:And it's not possible to honor the cardinal without some
Speaker:reference to his persecution.
Speaker:He was made a scapegoat for the church itself.
Speaker:He should never have been investigated in the absence of a complaint.
Speaker:He should never have been charged in the absence of corroborating evidence, and
Speaker:he should never have been convicted in the absence of a plausible case as the
Speaker:high court so resoundingly made plain.
Speaker:Applause at a full Catholic church service funeral.
Speaker:That would be unusual.
Speaker:I would've thought, applause for a, a protector of child molesters.
Speaker:Even more peculiar.
Speaker:I thought there was a complaint and that's why he was investigated.
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:See, you don't get this on the six o'clock years, do you?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:You don't get subjected to this.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And you know the climate change is only a pseudo religion
Speaker:because they don't rape children.
Speaker:Yes, that's right.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:There was an article in the Saturday paper by a guy called Des Cargill
Speaker:and about George Pell and he.
Speaker:At the service.
Speaker:Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, described Pell as one
Speaker:of the country's greatest sons.
Speaker:He said he was a soldier for truth.
Speaker:He said there should be schools and universities named after him.
Speaker:George Pell was two years ahead of me in the Melbourne Seminary for several months.
Speaker:He was my prefect.
Speaker:We maintained a friendship.
Speaker:Through the years, various commentaries have focused
Speaker:particularly on Pell's intelligence.
Speaker:His fine mind, bellow seminarians know better.
Speaker:He was certainly bright, but he never topped his class at the
Speaker:Melbourne Seminary, nor at the Pontifical Urban University in Rome.
Speaker:It was often described as God's ruckman, and it was noted that
Speaker:he would've applied for Richmond.
Speaker:This isn't quite true either because of his bulk, he dominated schoolboy
Speaker:football, that this advantage did not last into adulthood.
Speaker:When he played against men in the seminary, he was best
Speaker:described as slow and lumbering.
Speaker:He was not a draft pick.
Speaker:Also showed amazing ability not to read the signs of the times he was particularly
Speaker:seen in this was particularly seen in his rejection of a priestly role
Speaker:for women, his stride in opposition to gay people and same sex marriage.
Speaker:And lastly, in his rejection of the need for a revised theology of sex
Speaker:and sexuality, he played a key role in the dismissal of Bill Morris,
Speaker:Bishop of Tomba for his outspoken views on women's ordination.
Speaker:He goes on painting a picture of him as a conservative.
Speaker:So, so yeah, cause you do hear those things about him, and that's just
Speaker:painting another picture to provide a full picture for you of Cardinal Pell.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Joe.
Speaker:Lydia Thorpe was the Greens spokesperson for the voice.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And she was quite loud in saying, That she wasn't so sure about the voice and
Speaker:while she wasn't, you know, coming out and saying definitely vote against it, she was
Speaker:clearly not happy with the idea, which was a contradiction with what the greens were
Speaker:wanting to say as their policy, obviously.
Speaker:And anyway, she quit the greens.
Speaker:It's probably good for everybody.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I saw her earrings that said, territory never seeded
Speaker:or sovereignty never seeded.
Speaker:That was it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So she wanted to make it clear that if the voice referendum has passed
Speaker:that somehow it's made clear that sovereignty has never been seated.
Speaker:So, Just this article I read on this, which said, Victorian Senator Lydia
Speaker:Thorpe has quit the Greens party and will move to the Crossbench.
Speaker:The indigenous Senator says she wants to represent the strong grassroots,
Speaker:black sovereign movement full of staunch and committed warriors.
Speaker:Sounds like she's advocating for revolution.
Speaker:Mm, yeah.
Speaker:She said her voice parliament was at odds with what her community had told her,
Speaker:but noted she had not reached her final position on the constitutional change.
Speaker:Gonna get quite ugly.
Speaker:This debate.
Speaker:See how pans out.
Speaker:Probably a good thing for the greens that was getting really
Speaker:embarrassing for the greens.
Speaker:They clearly want to, certainly the people who vote green are very much in
Speaker:favor of the voice and yeah, but isn't this another case of white people?
Speaker:Taking on struggles that aren't theirs.
Speaker:Deciding what's best for other communities.
Speaker:Which white people, Joe?
Speaker:Oh, the self-flagellating sort name some names.
Speaker:What are you talking about here?
Speaker:You mean, you mean the greens in general?
Speaker:Taking on Yeah.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Opinion.
Speaker:Well, but this is also true in America of the, the, the Black Lives Matter where
Speaker:there was a lot of well-meaning white people going, no, what we need is this.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:And the black people saying, you don't know cuz you've never lived it.
Speaker:You've ne you don't understand it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And, and it's fine for you to support us, but
Speaker:I dunno.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:As you know, dear, listen, I'm against the voice, but I'm against the reasoning of.
Speaker:Lydia Thorpe and I'm against the reasoning of just enterprise as well.
Speaker:So, ah, dear.
Speaker:Joe, have you been keeping up with robo debt at all?
Speaker:I did see something about the commission going on and that it was a good thing cuz
Speaker:we were getting some transparency into the non-functioning of the government.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Imagine if this was all happening behind closed doors as might happen
Speaker:with this new body that's been developed for federal parliament.
Speaker:The not iac.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So the fact that this is all out in the open for everybody to see is great.
Speaker:So Focus in the last week has been around Alan Tud and his former media advisor.
Speaker:So she had, she had.
Speaker:Left the department under circumstances where she got a massive payout.
Speaker:So she was obviously no longer friends with Alan Targe or anybody in there
Speaker:and was happy to be extremely frank about, about what had gone on in
Speaker:that department and did not hold back in the least about how how his
Speaker:office was handling this robo debt.
Speaker:So, brief recap, dear listener, is that robo debt was a situation where
Speaker:they were pe people's obligation to, with social welfare relied on looking
Speaker:at their income in two week periods.
Speaker:And for a lot of people that can fluctuate a lot because they're on
Speaker:casual employment and What robo debt was doing was looking at their income over a
Speaker:longer period of time and averaging that int across the two week periods, which
Speaker:was resulting in people having debts to repay and debts that were completely
Speaker:false because of this lazy calculation.
Speaker:And then sort of getting quite nasty sort of debt collection agency people to follow
Speaker:up with these people and threaten them and, you know, people committed suicide
Speaker:and, and were highly distressed about it.
Speaker:So it was a really uncaring, brutal sort of response by the government compared to
Speaker:Jerry Harvey and the job keep allowance.
Speaker:Yes, exactly.
Speaker:Just millions and Oh, well, it's done dusted.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Completely different.
Speaker:So, so it's hounding the poor people because they're poor.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And Joe, this really comes down to this Christian theology of these Pentecostals
Speaker:in particular, where if you are poor, it's because you just haven't worked hard
Speaker:enough and you're not Christian enough and there's something morally wrong
Speaker:with you and Jesus doesn't love you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, so that, that, that's part of these people, like can't, this sort
Speaker:of Evangelical Pentecostal Christian line are the most un-Christian people.
Speaker:They just think poorly about people.
Speaker:Anyway, I hope that the Royal Commission actually recommends
Speaker:manslaughter proceedings.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I, who knows what they're gonna come up with.
Speaker:Look, I, I think if they were to say that the government is liable.
Speaker:. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:, and that people are at least investigated with a, a view to manslaughter to charges.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:, maybe governments would be less factless in the future.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So the media advisor painted a picture, Joe, where some sort of
Speaker:whistleblower complainers people on oh, they were hounded Social
Speaker:security, I know that were hounded.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And Taj wanted the details of every single one of them and wanted
Speaker:their private details that leaked to the media with disparaging
Speaker:sort of interpretations of their circumstances to try and tax them Yeah.
Speaker:To, and to reduce their credibility.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and sought legal advice as to whether he could do it and got the legal advice
Speaker:on the basis that it was clarifying government policy or something like that.
Speaker:So, The purpose was to scare off anybody else who was thinking of coming
Speaker:forward and complaining publicly.
Speaker:And according to the media advisor, that tactic was very successful.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm sure it was.
Speaker:And she was very clear and specific in talking about how they got that
Speaker:message out by just dealing with Simon Benson from, I think the Australian
Speaker:and other right wing papers and media that she mentioned who were friendly
Speaker:and she could just spoonfeed them an exclusive and they would run with it.
Speaker:Shocked.
Speaker:Shocked, I tell you that the Australian would do such a thing.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So it's worth listening to a little bit of what she had to say.
Speaker:And so let me find her here and bring it up.
Speaker:And she's here very, very frank and enjoying the moment of, of
Speaker:dumping on her previous employer.
Speaker:But that media strategy was quite comprehensive that I developed in
Speaker:January to shut down the story.
Speaker:And that involved, you know, placing stories with the you know,
Speaker:the more friendly media, the right wing media about how the coalition
Speaker:was actually catching people who were cheating the welfare system.
Speaker:And, and, and that media, including the likes of a current affair
Speaker:or others has a lot more reach.
Speaker:The, the commercial television programs the, the two GB radio, that
Speaker:type of thing has a lot more reach.
Speaker:So actually the message that was getting to people on the ground was that the
Speaker:coalition is cracking down on welfare cheats, whereas in the kind of, you
Speaker:know, left wing Canberra circles, it appeared to be quite a crisis.
Speaker:But we were getting feedback from the prime Minister's office that
Speaker:actually this was playing quite well in, in, you know, marginal seats,
Speaker:Western Sydney, that type of thing.
Speaker:Which was playing quite well.
Speaker:Well, the, the narrative of that robodi was actually playing quite well.
Speaker:I see in terms of people actually supported it and were supportive
Speaker:of the notion of the government cracking down on anybody who
Speaker:was cheating the welfare system.
Speaker:Joe, it's all about managing the narrative just, and it, it's the poor
Speaker:people who get most upset about people who are seen to be rotting the system.
Speaker:You know, I'm working hard, I'm doing my bit.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:These doll bludgers, they're sitting on their ass doing nothing Yes.
Speaker:And getting handouts.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So, yeah, I can see what, that, it would play well into marginal seats.
Speaker:The, you know, the, the, the poorer suburbs.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. Yep.
Speaker:In the chat room.
Speaker:Murray says, media watch actually has a good summary of that too.
Speaker:And they did Murray, it was a really, really good summary of, of what's gone
Speaker:on so far and it just surprises me that they weren't doing summaries like that
Speaker:every week for the last six weeks or so.
Speaker:Cuz there's been lots of other stuff happening.
Speaker:So yeah, that's just a very frank explanation of how ministers
Speaker:massage public opinion work with favored media outlets.
Speaker:There's an article from Rachel Withers in the monthly, Joe the Monthly's.
Speaker:Not bad.
Speaker:Saturday paper's, not bad.
Speaker:Crikey I'm less in love with, but it's still there as independent.
Speaker:John Menard, you blog.
Speaker:Aye what's that?
Speaker:Independent Australia.
Speaker:And Independent Australia.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:A little bit of the guardian from time to time.
Speaker:These are the outlets that we get some alternative view of
Speaker:some of these important things.
Speaker:So Rachel Withers in the monthly said so Tad was basically saying that he didn't
Speaker:know about the leg legal problems with robo debt, that he didn't know that
Speaker:there was some sort of advice floating around questioning the legal advice.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm sure that you're blaming, I'm sure that any lawyer would've been going, yeah,
Speaker:it might be legal, but it's questionable and it's hit and miss whether we could
Speaker:actually defend it in a court of law.
Speaker:And, and no civil servants going to cover that up.
Speaker:They're gonna pass it up the chain, cover their ass mm-hmm.
Speaker:And she makes the point that the evidence is shown that Taj was.
Speaker:Really heavily involved in looking at the criticism in the left wing media
Speaker:about the program because he was then acting very proactively to counter that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:in that of, at the time, the left wing media was also having saying we've got
Speaker:legal advice that this is, and, and illegal whispers of illegality about this.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:People are saying it's illegal, so he could not have been closely monitoring
Speaker:the left wing media for its complaints about what was happening to individuals
Speaker:with now without also knowing about these questions of illegality.
Speaker:It just, you can't have both.
Speaker:It's gonna be very interesting to see what this Royal Commission finds in terms of
Speaker:the credibility of different witnesses and whether they will be quite blunt,
Speaker:the commissioner in saying, well, Mr.
Speaker:Tadge gave this evidence and then at the same time gave this
Speaker:other evidence and I just don't.
Speaker:I don't, except that he was telling the truth.
Speaker:This is a Witch Hunt in revenge for the Pink Bats Royal Commission, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In part, yes.
Speaker:It's motivated by that.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Did the Pink Bats Royal Commission actually find that much?
Speaker:Were the actions of Peter Garrett and others as bad as the actions here?
Speaker:Yeah, they were.
Speaker:No, I'm, I'm saying, I don't know.
Speaker:Yeah, that's what I'd like to know is how, how did they compare him?
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Anyway, ABC has been very quiet on this as well, so, you know, they sent
Speaker:28 staff to cover the death of the Queen, and we got WaterWall coverage
Speaker:on something as important as this.
Speaker:We don't get much at all.
Speaker:Albanese, he was at the tennis pictured.
Speaker:having a beer.
Speaker:James Morrow from the Daily Telegraph wrote an article saying, having a beer at
Speaker:the tennis, not a good look for our pm.
Speaker:That was the headline.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, wasn't he not going to Alice Springs to deal with the right wing media's
Speaker:shock and horror about what was going on in Alice, but spending time at tennis,
Speaker:whereas the opposition leader was, oh wait, he was at the tennis too, right?
Speaker:Anyway, the great thing about citizen journalists now and people is, is
Speaker:they can look through and troll and find people's old tweets and mm-hmm.
Speaker:James Morrow, years ago actually not that long ago August, August 22, 22,
Speaker:talking about Scott Morrison, who was criticized for having a beer,
Speaker:said old enough to remember when a PM downing a beer was the cause.
Speaker:for much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Speaker:Has sanity returned or was the outrage just a partisan act?
Speaker:So sympathetic when Morrison had a beer and what are we barely five months later
Speaker:wasn't, wasn't one of the prime Ministers known for being able to neck a pint.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Bob Hawk.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:He had, so what's this crap about people being upset about the
Speaker:Prime Minister downing a beer?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, James Morrow is, when it's Albanese, well obviously he's
Speaker:not, when it's Morrison, just sake, hypocritical and partisan.
Speaker:These guys yeah, Bob had a, a beer drinking record of something, of some
Speaker:sort either down in Pinton, however long.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's what it was.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Jim Chalmers our treasurer wrote an essay.
Speaker:It's a really long essay and supposedly about his view on economics.
Speaker:And ordinarily, dear listener, I would not have read it, but because
Speaker:I do this podcast for you and kind of the arrangement is I do these
Speaker:things so that you don't have to.
Speaker:I read it and really it was a bit wishy washy.
Speaker:It was a lot of words that didn't really say much.
Speaker:I was hoping he would.
Speaker:But he was really just saying that we can make a new form of capitalism
Speaker:where people are nice to each other and companies have objectives beyond just
Speaker:making money and of being good citizens.
Speaker:And we can do it in a way to be great.
Speaker:That was about it, summary of it for you.
Speaker:And I couldn't get anything concrete out of it other than his desire
Speaker:for a nice form of capitalism.
Speaker:So I, I see the wellbeing, budget and treasurer g foreign
Speaker:question time about yoga Andn.
Speaker:There was a community in, I think San Francisco that said, you're
Speaker:providing funding for all of these different community events.
Speaker:We want funding for a community bondage dungeon.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:A consensual adults.
Speaker:It, it's a community sport.
Speaker:We, we want our own dungeon, a safe place for us to play.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And, and they asked for, and, and the outrage and the, the conservative
Speaker:press about, oh my God, how dare you.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:It was just the.
Speaker:We, we happily hand over cash to kitty fiddlers in the church,
Speaker:but when some adults ask for some private play base, yes.
Speaker:We we're totally outraged by this.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:How does this fit in with the story of of friendly capitalism?
Speaker:How does this work?
Speaker:How do we get to this?
Speaker:This was, you are talking about wellbeing budget from Oh, okay.
Speaker:Superintendent Chalmers.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:That, that would, that would help the wellbeing of a
Speaker:certain unique niche market.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, they said there were enough people in the community that were of that
Speaker:persuasion that it would have as much take up as a church in this day and age.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Why not?
Speaker:Ah, anyway, that was Jim Chalmer's values-based capitalism, bit wishy-washy.
Speaker:During the time that we had Morrison in charge, we had this orcas
Speaker:arrangement crop up, a security packed understanding between Australia,
Speaker:the UK, and the US where we agreed we were extra special friends.
Speaker:And Joe, just remind me again, how is the UK ever gonna help us in a
Speaker:military capacity if we get into trouble on the other side of the planet?
Speaker:Same.
Speaker:Same as the forks, they'll Sunday task force down.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Deliberate when the Argentinians invade.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Hang on.
Speaker:You're right.
Speaker:Anyway, it's a, a bullshit pact and it, it just says, it just says to the
Speaker:rest of Asia, we are white people here and we're scared of you Yellow people.
Speaker:and we've got deals happening with other white people who also happen to be former
Speaker:colonialists of much of the territory you guys currently live in, and you
Speaker:had to fight them off at some stage.
Speaker:We, we actually have a training initiative with Singapore.
Speaker:We do a training initiative, military training initiative.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So Singapore leases quite a lot of our army bases for training,
Speaker:and I believe there's some mutual defense thing going on there.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we are, you know, other, other former colonies.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:But they're definitely not white people in Singapore.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, you know, why didn't we strike a deal with Singapore and
Speaker:Indonesia and, you know, we're, we're here in Indonesia are Muslims.
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, Albanese and, and his.
Speaker:Deputy are worrying me, Joe, they seem to be extremely naive about
Speaker:these matters because he's come out in Albanese and said it's likely he
Speaker:would've pursued the orcas agreement.
Speaker:Had labor been empowered during the Morrison era because the bonds
Speaker:between the three nations are enduring and defense officials would've
Speaker:supplied the same advice goes on.
Speaker:Orchestra is an arrangement between nations who are friends and whoever
Speaker:was in government would've had similar defense department, defense
Speaker:personnel, and foreign affairs advice.
Speaker:And that's why our relationship with both those nations has been pretty
Speaker:consistent over a considerable period of time, regardless of who has been
Speaker:in office at any particular time.
Speaker:So Joe, there's no point voting for the Labor Party if
Speaker:you want a different policy.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:on defense or foreign affairs because.
Speaker:They don't have a policy or digging up coal, they just take whatever
Speaker:advice is given from the defense department and defense personnel,
Speaker:and that's what they just follow.
Speaker:And digging up coal is from Rio and Gina and
Speaker:Just pathetic labor.
Speaker:Just pathetic, honestly.
Speaker:Oh, well we've got the same advice, so we'd just do the same thing.
Speaker:It's your job to look at this stuff and make a decision about whether
Speaker:defense speak flavors of English.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What?
Speaker:It's easy to share intelligence because we all speak English.
Speaker:Ah, of course.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And yeah, honestly, goodness sake, nations who are friends.
Speaker:The US has never let us down.
Speaker:Here's to save me doing a rant.
Speaker:Here's Jimmy.
Speaker:No and Joe on gonna on Tucker Cast again.
Speaker:I was gonna say it was Rick Astley about how the US was never gonna give
Speaker:us up, was never gonna let let us down.
Speaker:Never gonna run around.
Speaker:Hurt you.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Something.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Alright, so this is good.
Speaker:This is Jimmy Doer on right wing.
Speaker:You know, we've reached the point where one of, like Tucker Carson is just an
Speaker:abominable person, but he's pissed off with the amount of money that America
Speaker:is spending on defense overseas.
Speaker:I think his motivation is that we are wasting our money
Speaker:defending overseas people.
Speaker:We should.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We, we should be back guarding the Mexican border.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:From all those nasty immigrants.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:So he, he wants to sort of taught us to retreat back into its shell.
Speaker:And so, so that's his motivation.
Speaker:But he is one of the few who's actually giving airtime to a view, which is
Speaker:that maybe the USA is this warmongering hegemon that needs to stop doing it.
Speaker:So he had Jimmy do on so this is what he had to say.
Speaker:We're the ones provoking this war.
Speaker:Just like we provoked the war in Ukraine, we are now provoking a war with China.
Speaker:And what, who, who benefits?
Speaker:I'll tell you right now, your enemy is not China.
Speaker:Your enemy is not Russia.
Speaker:Your enemy is the military industrial complex, which has been fleecing this
Speaker:country to the tunes of hundreds of billions and trillions of dollars.
Speaker:How many times are we gonna have a defense secretary say, Hey, we can't count
Speaker:for 2 trillion in the Pentagon again.
Speaker:That like, which has happened twice now in my lifetime.
Speaker:So again, people are being uh, the the war machine.
Speaker:Cannot be stopped.
Speaker:Who's running this country, the war machine.
Speaker:It certainly isn't.
Speaker:Joe Biden making these decisions.
Speaker:I would like to know who is making these decisions and I
Speaker:just wanna remind everybody.
Speaker:The United States is the world's terrorist.
Speaker:We just set the Middle East on fire in the last 20 years and now we're
Speaker:doing a proxy war in Ukraine, which we provoked NATO provoked and was just
Speaker:admitted that we provoked it by the former prime minister of Germany and now
Speaker:we're trying to save Ratter with with China, and they're predicting a war.
Speaker:Again, China's not gonna invade us.
Speaker:China's not our enemy.
Speaker:They, we might have an economic war.
Speaker:That's what these are, these are economic wars.
Speaker:These are wars, right?
Speaker:For in Ukraine, it's about liquified natural gas and making sure Germany
Speaker:and Russia never come together because we fear Russia's natural resources
Speaker:and manpower, and we fear them getting together with Germany, with
Speaker:their technology and their capital.
Speaker:And so that's why we blew up the Nord Stream pipeline.
Speaker:That's why we're doing the Ukraine War.
Speaker:This is all about hegemony, imperialism, and economics.
Speaker:And if there's a marine somewhere, it's there because they're about to steal some
Speaker:natural resources from another country as everybody's screaming about what a
Speaker:bad guy Putin is for invading Ukraine.
Speaker:The United States is currently occupying a third of Syria, and which third is that?
Speaker:It's the third that has the oil.
Speaker:And how do I know we're there to steal their oil because the president of the
Speaker:United States said so, and we're not, we're not even benefiting economically.
Speaker:That's, I mean, of course that's the rub.
Speaker:Jimmy Dore, I appreciate.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Didn't he do well to spit out a whole bunch of concepts in
Speaker:two minutes and three seconds?
Speaker:He barely paused for breath.
Speaker:And do you listen, if you get a chance to look at the vision of
Speaker:that, you're right Joe, but look, on Tucker's face was the strangest look
Speaker:of, of, he just looked like he'd been slapped across the face by a fish.
Speaker:Yeah, he did.
Speaker:And he just held it for the entire interview.
Speaker:Two minutes and three seconds.
Speaker:And he really got a lot out in a rapid amount of time that was, and there
Speaker:you go, right wing Tucker Carlson giving anti-war, anti-imperialist
Speaker:left wing view in supporting.
Speaker:because it's costing America money.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:rather than because it's killing brown people.
Speaker:But hey, at least this is, they call about Horseshoe Joe, where this extreme
Speaker:of the right and the extreme of the left eventually sort of come together
Speaker:on some issues like a horseshoe does.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:You know, meanwhile, if you look at Congress, you'll see people like AOC
Speaker:and Bernie Sanders and other supposedly left wing operators un without
Speaker:hesitation voting for these military budgets and for this military action.
Speaker:So these people who normally have social progressive views,
Speaker:well they don't actually, they're just another version of it.
Speaker:It just shows how the left wing is still very much the right wing
Speaker:and you know, maybe the argument.
Speaker:Lefties out there if you want to try and win people over to stop this war mongering
Speaker:his, his appeal to the Tucker Carlson.
Speaker:Tony Blair, I think was the beginning of it, wasn't he?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:He was part of the Coalition of the Drilling.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:Willing.
Speaker:Yes, that's right.
Speaker:He was, that was what Margaret Thatcher said, wasn't it?
Speaker:That her greatest achievement was Tony Blair possible because she
Speaker:had basically forced the Labor Party to produce a Tony Blair.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I think I've read that somewhere.
Speaker:Anyway, well done Jimmy Dore for getting that all out in a rush.
Speaker:So, chat room like that one, I think . Alright.
Speaker:How are we going for time?
Speaker:Like 32.
Speaker:Before I just get onto this next one, which is Caitlin Johnston.
Speaker:Actually
Speaker:Thanks actually to the patrons.
Speaker:Got a lovely donation from David s Thank you David for that generous donation.
Speaker:Much appreciated and thought it's time to thank the patrons.
Speaker:Joe, if you needed to duck off, you've got a minute here if you
Speaker:need to, but I'm good at the moment.
Speaker:Okay, you are good.
Speaker:So, dear listener we have a Patreon account.
Speaker:You can log on there and agree to donate 1 25 or $10 per episode, or you can go
Speaker:into PayPal and donate some money there.
Speaker:If you can't afford to, that's fine.
Speaker:Send me a message like if I get an email or a message from people saying they
Speaker:enjoy the show, that's always nice.
Speaker:If you've never done that before, send me a message cuz that warms my heart and.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:People who are patrons.
Speaker:Big shout out and thanks to, and this is starting from the most
Speaker:recent to the oldest Danny Boyland.
Speaker:Abra Puka.
Speaker:Actually, Abra used as donated for a long time, but used to be via PayPal.
Speaker:But now Patreon auntie US Sentiment.
Speaker:Tristan Hennessy, mark Lavell.
Speaker:Si Tom, the Warehouse Guy Ricko.
Speaker:Greg p Shannon Leg, Don tv.
Speaker:Matt Dier, Sue Crip James in Sydney there ran Wayne, David
Speaker:Hamby, Virgil Craig, ball.
Speaker:Shane Ingram.
Speaker:Zuck.
Speaker:David Copley.
Speaker:Graham Hannigan, yet another Pinker fan, John in dire Straits.
Speaker:Donny Daer, Camille Paul Wer Alexander, Alan Matthew Craigs Glen Bell.
Speaker:Professor Dr.
Speaker:Dentist.
Speaker:Adam Priest Murray Wer, who's in the chat room?
Speaker:Murray, good to see you there.
Speaker:Andy Doling, Peter Gillespie.
Speaker:Gavins, Daniel Cur.
Speaker:Liam McMahon.
Speaker:Dominic Dam.
Speaker:Massey.
Speaker:Mad man.
Speaker:Bromwyn, who's often in the chat room but isn't tonight.
Speaker:Kavir, Jimmy Spud, Tony Wall, Steve Shiners.
Speaker:Alison C is Alison.
Speaker:I haven't seen tonight.
Speaker:A Yame Wao.
Speaker:Craig and Janelle Louise.
Speaker:Thank you to all those people.
Speaker:And I forgot to look up the PayPals in I forgot to look up the PayPal people.
Speaker:I wonder if I've got that handy because they're on a separate
Speaker:list and I'll quickly grab that.
Speaker:The US sentiment, by the way, the second name, ah, thank you.
Speaker:Anti-US sentiment.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Also, thank you.
Speaker:To donate via PayPal would be Mr.
Speaker:T, Paul Evans, Anne Reed, Darren Gins, Davis from Cairns.
Speaker:I mentioned before Noel Hamilton, and.
Speaker:Louise, thank you to those people who donate that way.
Speaker:Yeah, it should be links in the show notes if you would like to.
Speaker:It's much appreciated.
Speaker:And yeah, so that's a rundown of thank you to those people.
Speaker:Joe, have you tried this chat?
Speaker:GP t no.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I would've thought as a tech guy you would've given it a game.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm not big on hyped things.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So dear, dear listener, you've, if you've been living in a cave, and we hadn't
Speaker:heard of it, but it's an artificial intelligence program where you basically
Speaker:can sort of ask it for something and it will generate, typically people have
Speaker:been saying write me a 300 word essay on why people should vote yes to the voice
Speaker:to Parliament or something like that.
Speaker:And, it can produce half decent essay is essentially one of the
Speaker:key things that have been, people have been using Joe sort of Yeah.
Speaker:Writing essays, articles.
Speaker:But you can, you can also do write me a sonnet or Yes, eh.
Speaker:So it probably wouldn't know the arguments to the voice because it's not learning.
Speaker:It has been trained and anything that happened after its
Speaker:training, it doesn't know about.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So, and the reason they did that was because the previous iterations of art
Speaker:artificial intelligence have been trained by humans outside to become racist Nazis.
Speaker:Ah, I see.
Speaker:Do you not remember Microsoft's one that was tweeting away and they got it to
Speaker:stop being a Nazi within about two days?
Speaker:No, I didn't remember that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ah, okay.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:You can even get it to write pieces of code, apparently.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Probably won't work, but sometimes it does.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, when you, when you read these things, they're, they're a little
Speaker:bit, look, they're not too bad.
Speaker:They're, they're surprisingly good sometimes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, some friends of mine got it to write a love poem for one of
Speaker:our other friends, , right, okay.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:All, all about his phone shop and, and how he would, how he
Speaker:lived to serve his customers.
Speaker:It was hilarious.
Speaker:Oh, there you go.
Speaker:So anyway, according to the shovel headline reads Peter Dutton to
Speaker:start using chat g p t to bring more human touch to speeches.
Speaker:Some, it's one use for it, John.
Speaker:Well, exactly.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:, I, the quote was, I just want to show Australians that I'm not a robot.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But we know he's not a robot.
Speaker:He's a monster, isn't he?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Oh, an article from Caitlin Johnson.
Speaker:Basically the thrust of the article is that we are ruled by assholes
Speaker:because we have asshole systems.
Speaker:What, what is it with assholes slipping in everywhere.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Does she live in America?
Speaker:She's got an American husband.
Speaker:Dunno.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You'd prefer asshole rather than asshole.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And ass is a donkey.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So she's saying people have a fairly language warning, dear listener.
Speaker:People have a fairly easy time accepting that things are fucked because
Speaker:we are ruled by corrupt assholes.
Speaker:They have a much harder time accepting that we are ruled by corrupt
Speaker:assholes because our corrupt asshole systems will always necessarily
Speaker:elevate corrupt assholes to the top.
Speaker:So she's really saying, our problem isn't that we've just got the wrong people have
Speaker:percolated to the top in a ruining lives.
Speaker:It's that we have a system that encourages and enables people to the
Speaker:wrong people to percolate to the top.
Speaker:I, I've, I've seen a number of people who have said the problem isn't with
Speaker:the president or the Prime Minister.
Speaker:The problem is with the whole system that allows them to get there.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And that Donald Trump was a symptom.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And a result of a system that is more worrying than Donald Trump itself.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:himself.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's a thrust of the article.
Speaker:It's in the show notes, which the people who are patrons get a pdf copy of the
Speaker:show notes worth joining just for that.
Speaker:By the way, anyone in the chat room is a pat, a patron on Patreon.
Speaker:Do any of you actually read the show notes or at least skim through them?
Speaker:I'm just curious whether you do or whether.
Speaker:. It just nobody looks at it except for myself and Cho keen to know.
Speaker:And I used them just to roll up and snor cocaine with or to put yourself to sleep.
Speaker:Ah, James does.
Speaker:Good on you, James.
Speaker:Right, what else do I have from Caitlin Johnson?
Speaker:Ah, she came across an article from The Guardian.
Speaker:This was a piece from 2014, and it was basically a piece which
Speaker:was highly critical of Ukraine.
Speaker:The government, which had been effectively installed by the Americans,
Speaker:by, by the the high preponderance of Nazis in the Ukrainian sort of
Speaker:military and their presence there.
Speaker:And what else did this article say?
Speaker:The Ukrainian president was replaced by a US selected administration in an entirely
Speaker:unconstitutional takeover, and spoke about the role of fascist right on the
Speaker:streets and in the new Ukrainian regime.
Speaker:It said in the article in The Guardian, this is from 2014, voted
Speaker:overwhelmingly to join Russia.
Speaker:And you don't hear much about Ukrainian government's veneration
Speaker:of wartime Nazi collaborators.
Speaker:Putin has won every election in the last however many years is the, the point of
Speaker:this article though, Joe, is okay, you can criticize it and say it's wrong,
Speaker:but she's saying that you could not print that article today if you were
Speaker:to make an article that was critical of Ukraine and sympathetic of Russia.
Speaker:In the way that this article that was written in 2014, you, there's
Speaker:no way that the Guardian would print it today is basically and, and she's
Speaker:not even admitting that that was you know, mainstream view at all.
Speaker:She's prepared to admit that this was perhaps an outlier of an article, but it
Speaker:was written by a journalist who at the time had published hundreds of articles
Speaker:for the Guardian and kept publishing for a year and a half after that piece came out.
Speaker:So, it's really her theory that mainstream media now is massaged
Speaker:where they don't, where they feel their role is not to just present.
Speaker:Facts and let people work it out.
Speaker:But their role is to somehow manage the inflammation flow to bring people to a,
Speaker:an opinion that they want them to have.
Speaker:So I think that was a fair point.
Speaker:I, I'm sure the art, the guardian would, would not print an article like that
Speaker:today if, if one of their long-term respected journalists presented it, they
Speaker:would just end up in the bin, probably.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:At the same time.
Speaker:There was an article by John Pilger and of course it was also scathing of Ukraine
Speaker:published in The Guardian at the time.
Speaker:And in it Pilger i's article is somehow even more heretical than
Speaker:Mills saying Washington quote.
Speaker:I like this one.
Speaker:Masterminded the coup in February against the democratically elected
Speaker:government in Kiev and that Ukraine has turned into a CIA theme park.
Speaker:Was Pilger.
Speaker:I love Turn a phrase like that, Joe.
Speaker:A CIA theme park was how he described the Ukraine.
Speaker:So, Pilger agrees that you, I think that you could not produce that sort
Speaker:of article for The Guardian anymore.
Speaker:And he says that there's a shift in mass media reporting and saying that there
Speaker:was a purge of dissident voices from the Guardian ranks around 2014 and 2015.
Speaker:And he says, my written journalism is no longer welcome in The Guardian,
Speaker:which three years ago got rid of people like me in pretty much a purge.
Speaker:He says interestingly, a 2019 Declassified UK report found that British Intelligence
Speaker:Services began aggressively targeting the Guardian after its 2013 publication
Speaker:of the Ed Wood Snowden documents.
Speaker:The outlet's editor-in-chief, Alan Rus Bridger was replaced
Speaker:by Catherine Viner in 2015.
Speaker:And at that point, the guardian began moving away from critical
Speaker:investigative reporting and began publishing softball interviews
Speaker:with chiefs of the I five and M 16.
Speaker:So there we go.
Speaker:That's a theory on by Caitlin Johnston that you couldn't produce that
Speaker:article anymore and a theory about the guardian changing tack in around 2015.
Speaker:That's that one.
Speaker:And Jay, there was a flurry of messages on there in the chat room.
Speaker:Anything, just jokes.
Speaker:Are we?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Good on you.
Speaker:In the chat room.
Speaker:And we, we were discussing Australian research and space exploration.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Very good.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Really her final,
Speaker:this final one from Caitlin Johnson says, once you get a penetrating insight into
Speaker:how much of our civilization is comprised of narratives people made up, it changes
Speaker:your view of everything, politics, government, the media, money, the economy,
Speaker:religion, culture, even your very self.
Speaker:That is true, Joe.
Speaker:I reckon over the last seven years I have developed a much more acute
Speaker:awareness of just how much shit is made up and, and shoveled, . Mm-hmm.
Speaker:in front of us.
Speaker:And she says that in recognizing that you would think it would be a
Speaker:negative experience, and she says at first it can be what's, but what's
Speaker:ultimately understood is something very.
Speaker:And that is if our entire civilization is made up, then we can make up
Speaker:something else, something better, something that works for all of us.
Speaker:And she says as examples, people are making up their own rules about money,
Speaker:gender, relationships, spirituality.
Speaker:That's what you're seeing in these new ideas about cryptocurrencies.
Speaker:I don't like that example, by the way.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:In the younger generation's, ideas about gender and sexuality in rewriting the
Speaker:rules of what relationships, marriages, and families are supposed to look like.
Speaker:People are beginning to replace the old narratives with
Speaker:narratives of their own making.
Speaker:So, and that's a good thing, something you go, your listener.
Speaker:This episode has been concerned with propaganda and narratives
Speaker:and how depressing it can be that Yeah, I mean, Dr.
Speaker:Darrell Ray, who is a psychologist who , he's very much involved in the atheist
Speaker:movement in the states and was saying that many people who have shared their
Speaker:religious beliefs still clinging onto religious driven ideas, particularly
Speaker:around sexuality, but amongst other things about morality in general, really.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And, and, you know, inherited guilt, guilt about nudity or their body or whatever.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And feel these things that have been imbibed.
Speaker:And even if we're not religious as children, we still inherit
Speaker:that from a Christian society.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Christian culture.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's very difficult.
Speaker:I mean, a lot of talk about sex work, it is driven by this Christian ideal
Speaker:that is, sex is somehow different, somehow special, somehow magical.
Speaker:And if you, if you consider it as just another pastime, and you start
Speaker:saying, well, why is it different?
Speaker:And the answer is always, well, it just is.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. But, but I see young people now.
Speaker:I think like if I look at high school kids mm-hmm.
Speaker:and, you know, you see all sorts of strange hairstyles, all sorts of
Speaker:gothic outfits or almost anything goes, it seems you know, at high
Speaker:school, a lot of high schools now.
Speaker:Not everyone I guess, but lots of them.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:You're gay, so what?
Speaker:Yeah, there's a, yeah, I think there is a lot more people
Speaker:just saying, well, whatever.
Speaker:Rocky boat.
Speaker:Rocky boat and yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I remember and being unconstrained by traditional
Speaker:narratives as, as a kid at school.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Nobody in my class would've dead come out, no.
Speaker:As a teenager.
Speaker:. And yet my daughter's school there was quite a lot.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And, and that was at a Christian school.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the kids genuinely just don't bat an eyelid about it.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Maybe people will not bat an eyelid when capitalism falls over
Speaker:and replace with something else, or, or other crazy things happen.
Speaker:So can, so it is a good point by Caitlin saying that yes, you know, you look around
Speaker:and you see how much is this made up.
Speaker:And on the plus side means we can make up new ways of doing things.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:There's a positive way of ending a program.
Speaker:Dear listener, . Right.
Speaker:I'm gonna be back next week, but then the week after, I'm not sure what's happening.
Speaker:We'll see.
Speaker:You around next week, Joe.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Alright.
Speaker:Well, dear listener, thanks for all those in the chat room.
Speaker:You guys were having fun in there.
Speaker:. I've got nothing else.
Speaker:Talk to you next week.
Speaker:And it's a good night from him.
