full
Episode 421 - TikTok
Topics:
00:00 Welcome to the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove Podcast
00:42 Introducing the Team and Today's Hot Topics
04:31 Local Government Elections: A Personal Insight
07:23 Gratitude Segment: What We're Thankful For
09:10 The Big Ideas for a Better Australia Conference
10:30 Long COVID: Unpacking the Facts and Myths
17:47 Gina Reinhart's Government Handouts Controversy
24:34 Australia's GST Distribution Debate
28:26 Generational Ideological Divides: A Closer Look
3:43 Australia's Role in Global Affairs: Public Opinion
37:39 The Pharmacy Guild and Prescription Changes
38:25 Economist's Critique on the State of Economics
39:30 Unveiling the Power Dynamics in Economics
41:17 The Controversial Life of Angus Deaton
41:39 Economics: A Dark Art or a Science?
42:17 The Global Impact of Corporate Giants
42:55 Protectionism vs. Free Trade: A Global Debate
55:11 The TikTok Controversy: Data Privacy and National
Security
01:00:18 Deciphering the Myths and Facts About TikTok
01:12:34 The Global Perspective on Social Media and Data
Privacy
01:23:44 Reflecting on the
Podcast and Upcoming Topics
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Transcript
Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over
Trevor:time, evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homosapiens.
Trevor:But today, we observe a small tribe akin to a group of meerkats that
Trevor:gather together atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the
Trevor:current events of their city, their country, and their world at large.
Trevor:Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the
Trevor:Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.
Trevor:Yes, hello and welcome dear listener.
Trevor:Episode 421 of this little podcast.
Trevor:As we sit on, oh, we stand up on a mound, look around as meerkats and
Trevor:Check out what's going on in the world.
Trevor:I'm Trevor, aka The Iron Fist with us nearly as always.
Trevor:The Velvet Glove, Scott, you're with us this
Scott:week.
Scott:I'm here with you, Trevor.
Scott:Yes, I do apologize for last week.
Scott:I completely slipped my mind.
Trevor:No problem whatsoever.
Trevor:And Joe, the tech guy.
Trevor:How are you, Joe?
Trevor:Good.
Trevor:Very good.
Trevor:If you're in the chat room, say hello, Watley's already there,
Trevor:redheaded Watley, as we now know.
Trevor:yeah.
Trevor:So what's on the agenda?
Trevor:We're going to talk a little bit about Australian news.
Trevor:So a bit about long COVID, what the sort of chief medical officer
Trevor:from Queensland had to say.
Trevor:Gina Reinhart getting some free money from the government, GST carve
Trevor:up, ideological gender differences, a little bit on essential pole.
Trevor:A little bit about the Pharmacy Guild, a bit about economics and
Trevor:economists sort of acknowledging they don't know what they're doing.
Trevor:And then I really want to have a good chat about TikTok and the proposed ban in the
Trevor:United States and what is that all about.
Trevor:You guys been following that one at all independently or not really?
Scott:I did hear about podcast the other day that I was listening to and I just
Scott:think to myself, I don't understand, I don't, I don't use TikTok or anything like
Scott:that so I couldn't tell you what the beat up's about but it's one of those things
Scott:I just think to myself that the Yanks are actually Looking at something they're
Scott:saying the Chinese own this, therefore the Chinese are out here polluting our
Scott:political system, so I would have thought that given that Russia has already
Scott:influenced the American elections using Facebook and everything else, that that
Scott:would be enough for, that would be enough for them to say, okay, this is just a
Scott:new little threat that we've got to deal with on our, on our horizon, rather than
Scott:actually going, you know, banning it.
Scott:And then it was even more ridiculous.
Scott:Like when that, when the head of TikTok was in America and that sort
Scott:of stuff, he appeared before the U.
Scott:S.
Scott:Senate and they said, oh, you're a member of the Chinese Communist Party.
Scott:He says, I'm Singaporean.
Scott:Yes.
Scott:And he said, well, have you ever fought with a PLA?
Scott:He says, I'm Singaporean.
Scott:You know, they just wouldn't get it through their thick skulls
Scott:that just because he's yellow doesn't mean that he's Chinese.
Trevor:You know, they
Scott:are so bloody blinking over there, aren't they?
Trevor:Did you think to yourself, maybe this whole security threat is a complete
Trevor:beat up, and there is no security threat?
Scott:Absolutely I did, because I thought to myself that, you know,
Scott:TikTok is something that I think that they limit how long you can
Scott:actually say a video for, do you?
Trevor:Yes.
Trevor:Yeah,
Joe:so the rule short, it's basically death by attention span.
Trevor:Yes, it's got an excellent algorithm that's got people sucked in.
Trevor:Cooked for hours at a time.
Trevor:Yes, I've never used it but that's my understanding.
Trevor:It should,
Joe:it should be banned just because it's so awful,
Trevor:not because of it won't exist.
Trevor:Yeah, well we're going to get into TikTok and examine what
Trevor:exactly is going on there.
Trevor:So you dear listener, the next time you're at a dinner party, And the topic
Trevor:of the TikTok band comes up, you will be the most informed person in the room
Trevor:by being an IFVG listener, which I guess you'll just be quite used to that status.
Trevor:I like to think our listeners are the know it alls when they're at these
Trevor:social events and, you wouldn't have thought so, yeah, hopefully they
Trevor:aren't, so anyway, that's on the agenda.
Trevor:Maybe we'll talk about Gaza and what's going on there at the same time.
Trevor:sorry.
Trevor:gentlemen, did you vote in the, in the local government election?
Trevor:Yes,
Scott:I did.
Scott:And I helped count the votes on Saturday night.
Scott:I'm going back for the next three days to also count.
Scott:I'm going down to We've got a complicated system up here.
Scott:We don't have divisions or anything like that.
Scott:They're all just Councillors that are elected for the whole
Scott:area and you've got 10 of them.
Scott:So what you've got to do is you've got to, you've got to
Scott:choose 10 on your ballot paper.
Scott:And there were 29 that were running.
Scott:So you choose 10.
Scott:So what you do is you go through and you've got to actually do
Scott:this bloody complicated voting counting and all that sort of stuff.
Scott:When you.
Scott:They attach them to a clipboard so that they are all on exactly the same side,
Scott:same runs and that sort of stuff, and then you run a ruler down, you count
Scott:the first lot, and you say, well, they haven't got any votes, the next lot's
Scott:got two votes, and then you go down, they've got three votes, and they've got
Scott:five and everything else, you get down until you do that across, 60 or 80, 000
Trevor:people.
Trevor:Wow.
Trevor:And were you there just as a volunteer?
Trevor:Well, you were doing part time work sort of thing.
Trevor:I was getting paid for it.
Trevor:Yep.
Trevor:Okay.
Trevor:Sounds complicated.
Trevor:I tried to.
Scott:Well, I was, I was only just, I was just sorting them out into informal
Scott:and informal votes and that sort of stuff.
Scott:Then we had to put rubber bands around them in Baxter's 50.
Scott:So that's just getting ready for, ready for this complicated
Scott:count process, which is.
Scott:Already started, but they rang me up this afternoon and said, can
Scott:I work for the next three days?
Scott:I said,
Trevor:yes, I can.
Trevor:Yeah, that's good.
Trevor:Well, by the way, dear listener, if you don't want to listen to our
Trevor:chit chat about our lives, then look at the chapters and fast forward
Trevor:to the meaty bits, but we'll just continue with a little chit chat here.
Trevor:exactly.
Trevor:Cause you know, I would
Scott:have thought that our, I would have thought that our listeners would
Scott:love us enough to actually want to know what's happening in our personal
Trevor:lives.
Trevor:You just never know.
Trevor:I tried, I tried to vote down the Gold Coast.
Trevor:Yeah,
Scott:and you can't because you're outside of your
Trevor:local area.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:I didn't, I didn't know that for local council elections, that you
Trevor:couldn't, I'm so used to doing it for state and federal, just vote anywhere.
Trevor:Walked in and they said, there's a piece of paper over there, just
Trevor:write down your name and address and why you couldn't vote, because, and
Trevor:yeah, in this day and age, didn't have the technology to allow somebody
Trevor:from Brisbane to vote in the council election if they're in the Gold Coast.
Trevor:I thought that was Yeah, I know.
Scott:I thought it was a little bit ridiculous too.
Scott:I got done with that in Rockhampton when I got, I was living there
Scott:the first time and everything else when there was a council election.
Scott:Yeah.
Scott:Hmm.
Scott:And I went down and I said, look, I haven't changed my
Scott:voting, voting address yet.
Scott:I'm still registered in Brisbane.
Scott:They said, well, you can't vote.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:It just didn't have the paperwork for it.
Trevor:Exactly.
Trevor:All right.
Trevor:what are we grateful for?
Trevor:I'm grateful for Squash TV, dear listener.
Trevor:Squash TV?
Trevor:Yes, I play a lot of squash.
Trevor:It keeps me, it's a fantastic sport.
Trevor:If you're looking for a sport that takes your mind off things, keeps you
Trevor:fit and just the greatest game of all.
Trevor:when I, well I signed up to a Squash TV subscription maybe four or five years
Trevor:ago and I'm totally addicted to it.
Trevor:I don't watch any football or any cricket or any regular.
Trevor:Sport and all on TV, but I watch a lot of squash TV.
Trevor:So that's what I'm grateful for.
Trevor:You guys grateful for anything?
Scott:Well, I'm grateful for my four of my one, two, three, four, five
Scott:subscription television channels that I've got so No, I'm also I am also
Scott:grateful that I am Progressing in my, application for a financial controller's
Scott:job up here, which would be really good if
Trevor:I get that, so anyway.
Trevor:Excellent.
Trevor:Okay.
Trevor:Joe, anything?
Trevor:Just an ungrateful bastard.
Joe:I'm gonna say, Apple Photos.
Trevor:Apple Photos?
Trevor:Yeah,
Joe:I scanned a thousand photos Mum's place, or rather
Joe:I had them scanned for me.
Joe:And I am slowly going through, cropping them, and, Setting the black and
Joe:white color balance and removing all the finger marks, stains and various
Joe:detritus and trying to get some semblance of them so that at least
Joe:they're archived and I've got some notes of them, before mum is no longer
Joe:around to tell me who these people are.
Trevor:So Apple Photos is just a, is just, Is that just the photos that's
Trevor:on your phone, Apple Photos, is it?
Trevor:Yes.
Trevor:Right, okay.
Trevor:And it's also
Joe:on my laptop.
Trevor:Very good.
Trevor:Right, okay.
Trevor:Well, the other thing I'm grateful for is I didn't have to go to the triple
Trevor:conference, Joe, that you told me about.
Trevor:So, dear listener, there was a conference down in Albury called
Trevor:Big Ideas for a Better Australia.
Trevor:Joe sent it to me and said I should check it out.
Trevor:And, I could have joined hundreds of like minded locals, hundreds more from around
Trevor:Australia, as they brought together the best minds and best speakers, as offering
Trevor:the best ideas for a better Australia.
Trevor:And they had three conferences over three days.
Trevor:And, on the Friday it was Freedman Friday.
Trevor:What is freedom?
Trevor:Why is it being eroded and how do we get it back?
Trevor:Australia's premier libertarian conference.
Trevor:That was on the Friday.
Trevor:On the Saturday we had Church and State Saturday.
Trevor:We cannot serve two masters.
Trevor:What should believers do when the government claims to be God?
Trevor:And then, finishing off on Sunday was Net Zero Gala Dinner.
Trevor:Say no to Net Zero at the gala launch of this funny but serious campaign.
Trevor:How will you say, net?
Trevor:I think they got, about between 50 and 100 people, mostly over 70, Joe.
Trevor:And, I don't think it was much of a success, that conference, but Thanks
Trevor:for the Yes, thanks for the link.
Trevor:Glad I didn't have to go.
Trevor:Long COVID.
Trevor:Article came out, or news reports came out, about the Queensland Chief
Trevor:Health Officer asked for the term Long COVID to be scrapped as new research
Trevor:suggests that it's no more sinister than the long term effects of the flu.
Trevor:So apparently Queensland Health did research of 5, 000 Australians
Trevor:and found the lasting effects of infection from seasonal flu
Trevor:and other respiratory illnesses.
Trevor:It was about the same for people infected with COVID.
Trevor:And he says, just using that term, Long COVID caused unnecessary fear.
Trevor:Was that surprising to you guys that he would come out and say that?
Trevor:No, I
Joe:mean, we've known for a couple of years that Long COVID is probably
Joe:a post viral syndrome the same as lots of others like ME, CFS, Fibromyalgia,
Joe:there's a whole load of basket case diagnoses that are almost certainly.
Joe:The immune system overreacting to a viral infection.
Joe:Hmm.
Joe:The advantage of long COVID is, one, it's catchy, it's got people's attention,
Joe:and two, the fact that there are so many cases of it, it's now getting
Joe:focus on post viral syndrome as a whole.
Joe:So I think we need to be recognizing that It's not a standalone disease.
Joe:It's, it's something that's around that has just gone unnoticed and uncared about.
Joe:And hopefully we'll get a
Trevor:lot
Joe:more research because more people are affected by this.
Trevor:If you just read the headline and the first few paragraphs, you
Trevor:would get the impression, Oh, they're saying on COVID isn't a thing.
Trevor:But when you read into it, what they're saying is, Long covid is a thing, but
Trevor:it's the same as, other respiratory viruses and illnesses and that it
Trevor:does exist and it's just exists with things that are not covid as well.
Trevor:So over 16% of respondents reported ongoing symptoms a year later,
Trevor:and 3.6% reported moderate to severe functional impairment.
Trevor:So he's saying that is a thing, it just happens with other virus
Trevor:respiratory illnesses as well.
Trevor:And, and the other thing that came up in that was that, perhaps Australia
Trevor:overall had low rates of long COVID because we were mostly vaccinated and
Trevor:were then exposed to the Omicron variant, which seemed to have less, long COVID.
Trevor:side effects than the earlier COVID 19 variants.
Trevor:So that might mean that Queensland and Australia is different too.
Trevor:Other countries who had the earlier versions that had more
Trevor:evidence of long COVID, perhaps.
Trevor:I think that's probably
Scott:right, because, you know, I first heard about long COVID
Scott:when I was listening to the Dr.
Scott:Norman Schwarzkopf.
Scott:I can't even
Trevor:remember what he's Yeah, I know the guy you mean, yeah.
Trevor:Yeah,
Scott:Dr.
Scott:Norman, no, Dr.
Scott:Norman Swan.
Scott:I was thinking Norman Schwarzkopf, that was the general that, kicked Saddam's ass.
Scott:Anyway, anyway, And I just heard long COVID then, and that scared
Scott:the living shit out of me.
Scott:It did scare me, so I can actually understand where they're
Scott:saying that it leads to alarm.
Scott:It certainly led to the alarm on mine, you know, because I thought to
Scott:myself, if I get this, I'm going to end up with long COVID for months.
Scott:But it turned out, you know, I got it.
Scott:It was over it in two days.
Scott:And then it was only until the next Saturday that I started getting it.
Scott:I started testing negative so then I could go outside again.
Trevor:No doubt though, you'll run into people, dear listener, who'll say, Oh,
Trevor:health guy said long COVID's not a thing.
Trevor:And that's not what he said.
Trevor:Not the case, yes.
Trevor:Just got to read these things.
Trevor:There's nuance in there.
Trevor:And there's a few interplaying ideas and concepts that you
Trevor:have to get to grip with.
Trevor:So,
Joe:I remember arguing about the seasonal vaccine.
Joe:people saying, Oh, you know, I always get flu from it, which is a load of rubbish.
Joe:but also, Oh, you know, flu is not that bad.
Joe:It's like, if you've never had flu, you'll think it's not that bad.
Joe:If you've ever, if you've ever really had flu, I was as a 20 year old in
Joe:bed for three weeks, unable to move.
Joe:and it doesn't surprise me that yeah, 16 percent of people who've had real
Joe:flu are left with long term effects.
Joe:and I think that, that needs to be the takeaway, not that long COVID
Joe:doesn't exist, that all of these diseases can cause long term effects
Joe:in a subset of the population, and we need to be doing more to help them.
Trevor:Hmm.
Trevor:Yeah, there's just a classic example where the story isn't straightforward.
Trevor:It requires the interplay of a few different facts to get to the real issue.
Trevor:And I was just looking on some of my friend's Facebook page the other day
Trevor:where there was Anti climate change people commenting and it just struck me
Trevor:that they just were incapable of holding several concepts and ideas and interplays
Trevor:together, you know, what, how come we've got so much snow in winter and, and,
Trevor:other things we're, we're, we're, we're Okay, it's because the extra moisture in
Trevor:the air and the polar vortex is breaking down because of climate change and just
Trevor:a whole bunch of, of things where people just need to know a number of different
Trevor:ideas and how they interact with each other in order to get to the truth.
Trevor:Things aren't always just simple.
Trevor:Straightforward answers, and I think people really crave for that.
Trevor:They want the simple, straightforward answer.
Trevor:There's,
Joe:so, Earth has an incredibly moderate temperature range
Joe:between the poles and the equator.
Joe:Because there's something, there's basically a water flow
Joe:around that moves warm water from the equator up to the poles.
Joe:and there is a fear that if the polar ice caps melt, that
Joe:water flow will cease to exist.
Joe:And that we will get very, very cold winters, certainly in Northern Europe,
Joe:because Northern Europe is much warmer than the equivalent latitude in, in the U.
Joe:S.
Joe:East Coast U.
Joe:S.
Joe:Basically, the U.
Joe:K.
Joe:is about the same latitude as, Newfoundland.
Joe:So you'd expect a similar climate there.
Joe:and, yes, if you get global warming, it melts the ice caps, which interferes
Joe:with the salinity of the sea.
Joe:Which stops this movement of seawater around, which stops the, the Gulf
Trevor:Stream happening.
Trevor:Hmm.
Trevor:but yes, it's, it's a fairly And the deniers just wanted to throw
Trevor:up their hands and say, well, that's all far too complicated.
Trevor:You're making things up.
Trevor:It can't be true.
Trevor:Well, exactly.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:It's, it's frustrating that people look for the simple answers and aren't prepared
Trevor:to put in the work just a little bit to try and understand how things go.
Trevor:So anyway, Gina Reinhart.
Trevor:She has interests in Liontown Resources and Arafura Rare Earths, and the
Trevor:government has given Liontown Resources 230 million in government agency loans,
Trevor:and Australian Rare Earths received 840 million in loans and straight
Trevor:handouts to develop a lithium mine.
Trevor:But she's going
Joe:to hand it back because she's
Trevor:a believer in small government.
Trevor:That's right.
Trevor:This is the woman who says government should get out of people's lives.
Trevor:Except when it's an 840 million handout to her mine.
Trevor:Why are we not, after all of our experience, saying, Yeah, okay,
Trevor:developing a lithium mine's a great idea.
Trevor:Here's our 840 million, how many shares do we get in the company for that?
Trevor:Rather than these loans.
Trevor:It's just a repetition of
Scott:And then, you know, and then if, if that 840 million
Scott:down the track turns out to be 1.
Scott:6 billion, then we can sell it.
Scott:Then we can sell those shares to the private markets.
Scott:And then they end up with flooding with money back into our coffers.
Scott:It's very frustrating that, you know, everyone, I know socialism got
Scott:a bad rap over many years because the government was, you know,
Scott:Too involved in the economy, but
Trevor:it's
Scott:not as evil as that would make out because that 840 million
Scott:dollars could end up being 1.
Scott:6 billion dollars in a relatively short period of time.
Scott:However, with the rare earths and all that sort of stuff, you
Scott:know, what was the latest miner that's gone belly up over lithium?
Scott:Anyway,
Trevor:yeah.
Trevor:Not sure.
Joe:the big thing with, capitalism is, externalities.
Joe:Yeah.
Joe:so you don't factor in the true cost to the society as a whole, you're only,
Joe:the business, it only costs, it counts in its immediate costs, and the clean
Joe:up and all the rest of that is left for other people to pick up the bill.
Joe:Exactly, which is ridiculous.
Joe:A decent system of capitalism would factor in externalities as well.
Trevor:Well, dear listener, Mariana Mazzucato wrote a book which detailed
Trevor:the inventions made by various U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:government agencies and how that technology was then used by Apple and
Trevor:other groups and really other sort of loans that were given to people like
Trevor:Elon Musk and others, where really the government should have taken
Trevor:an equity stake in what they were providing because it was risky, sort
Trevor:of loans that they were given and they could have got it, but they didn't.
Trevor:They just got, loans that were, they made loans which were quickly repaid and the
Trevor:entrepreneurs made billions as a result.
Trevor:This is
Joe:also true of, science as a whole.
Joe:So the vast majority of science is government funded, but all the
Joe:papers that are written are published and owned by private journals.
Joe:And so, although the government has funded the science that is leading to
Joe:these articles, you can't access the articles that your taxes are paid for.
Trevor:We did a section on that 300 episodes ago, I reckon it was.
Trevor:I'm sure.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Yeah, anyway, that was, Gina Reinhardt, a beneficiary of
Trevor:Largesse from the government.
Trevor:and of course, in the lead up to the next election, she will fund as many
Trevor:people as she can to get rid of Labor.
Trevor:So why would they agree to it in the first place?
Trevor:She's not going to be a friend as a result.
Trevor:Nah,
Scott:she's, I've got a very low opinion of Mrs.
Trevor:Reinhardt.
Trevor:But it's, it's
Joe:all right.
Joe:Mr Potato Head flew across to WA for her birthday?
Trevor:Yes, indeed, yes.
Trevor:Didn't he pay
Scott:for that
Joe:or was that paid for by her?
Joe:Allegedly, he paid for it.
Trevor:Right.
Trevor:Okay.
Joe:Certainly he claims the taxpayer didn't, although I think the taxpayer
Joe:had to pay for his security detail.
Trevor:In the chat room, John says, I know a science YouTube
Trevor:blogger that has been bedridden with long COVID for two years now.
Trevor:Watley says Al Gore was saying that about the Gulf Stream in 1996.
Trevor:Liam says, that's a spirit, Comrade Scott, I
Scott:am not a socialist, alright?
Scott:I, have some sympathy for it, though, but I am not a card carrying socialist.
Trevor:And Motley says, Largesse is a good word for Gina Reinhardt.
Trevor:Right, did I miss any from earlier?
Trevor:Wotley's grateful for Pewter and Liam's grateful that Scott is a Greens voter.
Trevor:Oh, there we go.
Trevor:Hey, I've
Scott:got a bone to pick with you, Liam.
Scott:I will give you, I'll give Trevor permission to give you my phone
Scott:number so I can have a go at you over the, Greens Lord Mayoral
Scott:candidate down there in Brisbane.
Trevor:What do you, what do you, what do you mean you want
Trevor:to have a go at what, what was Sreenath, or whatever your name is?
Scott:I can't remember what her name was.
Scott:I just thought it was ridiculous how she actually attended that protest,
Scott:over that woman that was being kicked out of her house, when they didn't
Scott:actually look into it to find out that the woman owed, You know, a hundred days
Scott:worth of rent or something like that.
Scott:This is despite the fact that the tenant, that the tenant was being charged below
Scott:market rate for rent and everything else.
Scott:And the guy wanted to sell the place so that he could fund his 102 year
Scott:old mother to go into a nursing home.
Scott:And the Greens said, Oh, this, yeah, that sounds like the
Scott:hill we're going to die on.
Trevor:Yes, but property is theft, Scott.
Trevor:Sorry.
Scott:It's not theft because what they wanted to do, they were going to
Scott:sell that Salisbury place to someone else that thinks to himself, Oh yeah,
Scott:this is a thousand square metres, banging guys with their bulldozers
Scott:and up goes a six or seven pack of
Trevor:units.
Trevor:Are you expecting perfection, Scott?
Scott:Oh, I am.
Scott:Because these people do hold themselves up as perfection and they are not.
Trevor:Liam, in the chat, give us your response to that tirade.
Trevor:We'll get that going as we keep talking.
Trevor:Right.
Trevor:I can't see the chat right now.
Trevor:Why can't you see the chat?
Trevor:I don't know.
Trevor:I don't know.
Trevor:Any reason why?
Trevor:Oh, it's not on the screen.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:It wasn't turned on.
Trevor:I don't know why.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Forgot all about that.
Trevor:There we go.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:But.
Trevor:There we go, there's the chat.
Trevor:Nobody told us about that, so.
Trevor:Okay, now you can see it, Scott.
Trevor:Thank you.
Trevor:Yep, sorry about that.
Trevor:Don't apologise, it's fine.
Trevor:GST carve up, so it's come out about what each state is going to get, and Queensland
Trevor:and New South Wales are complaining about the amount that they're getting.
Trevor:You remember we did a story about Saul Eslake describing how Western
Trevor:Australia cut a GST deal that, in his words, is the worst Australian public
Trevor:policy decision of the 21st century.
Trevor:Meaning it's worse than Orcus Submarines.
Trevor:So that's saying something.
Trevor:And anyway, Queensland, NSW complaining about how much they got.
Trevor:Deputy Opposition Leader Jared Blayge says Queensland had been dutted
Trevor:by the Federal Labor Government.
Trevor:Why is Stephen Miles not screaming from the rooftop, like I've seen him do before,
Trevor:when it was a Coalition Government?
Trevor:It's because the formulas are all set previously,
Scott:One of those things, I think they've actually got to sit down and work
Scott:out some kind of formula that would keep them basically happy because, you know
Trevor:The formula gets bastardized
Scott:because of political interest.
Scott:Bastardized by political interest, which is where it goes wrong.
Scott:But, you know, I can understand why New South Wales feels aggrieved because they
Scott:have never, they've never got one for one of the GST back that they put into it.
Scott:I can understand that.
Scott:However Tasmania would be an absolute basket case if you gave them only
Scott:back what they had achieved for GST.
Scott:You know?
Scott:It's
Trevor:We just want a fair and equitable system where those who are
Trevor:doing well subsidise those who aren't.
Trevor:And
Scott:And then you've got that situation that WA was had to, you
Scott:know, because of their mining boom and everything else, they had a hell of a
Scott:lot of money go into their royalties.
Scott:So that, that affected their, that affected their GST carve up, which
Scott:is why Costella, not Costella, who was it, Morrison got involved
Scott:and said, no, we can't do that.
Scott:So
Trevor:I think basically Western Australia almost got to the point where
Trevor:it was getting 12 cents for every dollar of GST that it actually collected.
Trevor:And then Morrison chipped in to say, well, we'll have a new rule that a
Trevor:state must receive at least 70 cents, for every, dollar that it provides.
Trevor:And, and then to keep the other states happy, there was a no state will
Trevor:be worse off provision put into it.
Trevor:And initially that was estimated to cost X billions of dollars.
Trevor:And of course that's just blown out fivefold and it's now.
Trevor:It's going to cost the budget a huge amount in terms of sending the
Trevor:states more money than they actually collect because of that provision.
Trevor:So I'm not exactly sure what happened in this particular case.
Trevor:It seemed like Queensland and New South Wales had done
Trevor:really well out of royalties.
Trevor:And Victoria hadn't.
Trevor:In any event, it's all very political, the formula, and shitfights to
Trevor:continue down the track, as always.
Trevor:I
Joe:think they said Victoria had shut down a bunch of columns.
Trevor:okay, so that's why their royalties depleted.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:That's why they needed particular assistance.
Trevor:There you go.
Trevor:Now, right, Joe, you sent me this one from the Financial Times.
Trevor:Maybe Victoria's Sorry?
Scott:Sorry, why'd Victoria shut down their column once?
Scott:Was it Brown Call, though?
Trevor:I
Joe:think it's the aging power stations and the shutting
Trevor:down.
Trevor:Gotcha.
Trevor:No worries.
Trevor:Okay.
Trevor:Alright.
Trevor:Liam says, he's not perfect, but no one is, and maybe he got that wrong.
Trevor:I've no idea.
Trevor:There we go.
Scott:So Liam's not going to face me over the phone, huh?
Scott:Well,
Trevor:what's there to say?
Trevor:Do you want to say any more than what you've just said?
Scott:No, I don't think so.
Scott:That's fine.
Trevor:Saved everyone a phone call.
Trevor:Ideological differences.
Trevor:This one came from Joe from the article in the Financial Times, so how should
Trevor:we make sense of reports that Gen Z is hyper progressive on certain issues,
Trevor:but surprisingly conservative on others?
Trevor:And I think Gen Z is supposed to be the under 30s.
Trevor:The answer, in the words of Alice Evans from Stanford University, is
Trevor:that Today's under 30s are undergoing a great gender divergence, with young
Trevor:women, in the progressive camp and young men in the conservative camp.
Trevor:So Gen Z is two generations, not one.
Trevor:And she says this happens in countries on every continent,
Trevor:that there's this ideological gap between young men and women.
Trevor:In the U.
Trevor:S., Gallup data shows women aged 18 to 30 are now 30 percent younger than men.
Trevor:Or 30 percentage points more liberal than their male contemporaries,
Trevor:and that this gap has really opened up in the last six years.
Trevor:Germany shows a 30 point gap, UK 25 points, Poland, almost half the men
Trevor:aged 18 to 21 back to the hard right confederation party, compared to just
Trevor:a sixth of young women of the same age.
Trevor:there's a graph, and outside the West there's even more stark divisions, South
Trevor:Korea, similar to the case in China.
Trevor:So, in the US, UK and Germany, young women now take far more
Trevor:liberal positions on immigration and racial justice than young men.
Trevor:There we go.
Trevor:Any surprises there, gentlemen?
Trevor:No, not at all.
Trevor:Right.
Trevor:Liam, are you our representative?
Trevor:Well, you're not under 30, are you, Liam?
Trevor:You're a bit older than that.
Trevor:You might know some under 30s.
Trevor:Do you find that the male Gen Z friends are conservative, more
Trevor:conservative than your female friends.
Trevor:Let us know, William, or anyone else.
Trevor:They
Joe:find that young men more impacted by the social justice causes
Joe:and are more likely to react to
Trevor:negative.
Trevor:Is that because of, what's the word I'm groping for?
Trevor:The, Jordan
Scott:Peterson?
Scott:Well, Jordan Peterson's probably part of it, but what was that
Scott:guy, what was that, influencer
Trevor:that, Oh, the guy's been arrested.
Trevor:Yeah, the guy that's been arrested
Scott:and is in a car.
Scott:Oh, Andrew Tate.
Scott:Andrew Tate, yeah.
Scott:Is that
Trevor:because of him?
Trevor:No, they're all symptoms.
Joe:So, the push for equality, there's an argument that basically, a lot of
Joe:young men are feeling disaffected.
Joe:talked down at, being held up as the reasons, they are
Joe:guilty of the sins of the past.
Joe:That sexism in the past, that, the inequality in, number of women
Joe:in high paying positions has led to men being disproportionately,
Joe:overlooked for any form of promotion or any form of career advancement.
Joe:And I think there are a lot of angry young men because of that.
Trevor:So Yeah, I could see that as a response in some ways.
Trevor:I
Scott:could see that as a response, but I don't think it's
Scott:a particularly fair response.
Trevor:Maybe
Joe:not, but I think that's part of it.
Joe:And a lot of the social justice is you're white, you're male, you're privileged.
Scott:Yeah, I can, I can agree with that.
Scott:That is a lot of that is coming across,
Trevor:you know?
Joe:And that's why I think it's, it's more men than women that are
Joe:being picked up by the right wing.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Good thinking, Joe.
Trevor:Probably right.
Joe:Yeah.
Joe:Historically the left, the, yeah, as we've said, the, the left political left
Trevor:has deserted the working class.
Trevor:Absolutely.
Trevor:They have.
Joe:and I think this is why the right wing are picking up, and the women aren't
Joe:so thrilled by it, because a lot of it is very much women should be in the kitchen,
Joe:popping babies out one after the other.
Trevor:Yes.
Trevor:Right, well, I've got a poll from Essential Poll, and looking at
Trevor:Australia's role in global affairs, so.
Trevor:Which of the following is closest to your view on what Australia's
Trevor:role should be in global affairs?
Trevor:And, first option was, primarily an ally of the US.
Trevor:The second option was an independent middle power.
Trevor:Third was the Australia should not engage in world affairs, and
Trevor:the fourth option was unsure.
Trevor:And, so, the conservative position would be, I would have thought,
Trevor:primarily an ally of the US.
Trevor:And, in terms of age, It's not that much difference.
Trevor:Well, the 18 34s It's
Scott:24%, but you know, at 55 plus, you're now at 19%, 5 percent difference.
Trevor:Yeah, I would have expected a bigger amount of the older people.
Trevor:Yeah, exactly.
Trevor:There was a surprising number of younger people to be more willing to
Trevor:see Australia as an ally of the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:than older people.
Trevor:That kind of surprised me.
Trevor:What is
Scott:very comforting about this is that you've got the, you know, the
Scott:independent middle power, you know, they've come up there at 34 percent on
Scott:the 18 to 35, 34, 32 percent of the 35 to 54, and then 48 percent of the 55s plus.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:So anyway, so a surprising number of young people willing to see Australia as an ally
Trevor:of the U S and then, in terms of gender, males 26 percent wanting to see Australia
Trevor:as an ally of the US, female only 14%.
Trevor:So that's all ages, but definitely a more of a male thing to be
Trevor:putting those two together.
Trevor:Male and young more likely to take the conservative, what I would have
Trevor:thought is the conservative approach of seeing Australia as an ally of
Trevor:the US rather than independent.
Trevor:Anyway.
Trevor:still on Essential Poll, looking at Australia's relationship with China.
Trevor:And seeing it as a positive opportunity, seeing it as a complex relationship to
Trevor:be managed and seeing it as a threat.
Trevor:And 67% said it's complicated to be managed, 20%.
Trevor:said it's a threat.
Trevor:And is that 20, 13%, 87%.
Trevor:13 said it is an opportunity that's sort of overall.
Trevor:But looking by gender, males were more likely to see it as a threat,
Trevor:16%, as opposed to females, 10%.
Trevor:So it's views on our relationship with China, that males see it
Trevor:more as a threat than females do.
Trevor:And this one.
Trevor:this is all Australian by the way, Views on Israel's military action in Gaza,
Trevor:which of the following is closest to your view on Israel's military action in Gaza?
Trevor:first one, Israel is justified in its military action.
Trevor:Second, Israel should agree to a temporary ceasefire.
Trevor:Third option was Israel should permanently withdraw.
Trevor:Fourth option was unsure.
Trevor:And finally, 18 percent of Australians think Israel is justified in
Trevor:continuing its military action.
Trevor:20 percent say they should cease fire temporarily.
Trevor:And 37 percent say withdraw permanently.
Trevor:18 percent go ahead Israel, do what you're doing.
Trevor:Have these people know.
Trevor:I
Scott:just don't think they give a shit, do they,
Trevor:you know?
Trevor:Yeah, you know, I'm gonna have to, I've got slight reading,
Trevor:I've got a problem with my eyes.
Trevor:Well.
Trevor:I can read a book fine.
Trevor:I can see in the distance fine.
Trevor:Arm's length where a computer screen is, is where I'm just struggling a fraction.
Trevor:Just so I can see what I, these graphs.
Trevor:break that down by gender and males, 26 percent are saying, go ahead Israel, keep
Trevor:doing what you're doing, it's justified.
Trevor:Whereas only 11 percent of females would say the same thing.
Trevor:So those.
Trevor:Those three issues definitely show significant gender differences, I
Trevor:think, in the way Australians think.
Trevor:Which is kind of in line, Joe, with the previous article saying
Trevor:that, at least in Gen Z, women more likely to be progressive, men
Trevor:more likely to be conservative.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:So, yep.
Trevor:Hmm.
Trevor:Do you guys remember how the Pharmacy Guild was really upset when the
Trevor:government allowed 60 day prescriptions?
Trevor:So rather than having to get a script, for 30 days, you could get a 60 day
Trevor:script and it was just, they'd be ruined?
Trevor:Well, reports have come out that, 87 new pharmacies have started up, since, 2011.
Trevor:That change took place, which is a 50 percent uptick from
Trevor:the same time last year.
Trevor:So, presumably, not the problem that the Pharmacy Guild was suggesting
Trevor:it would be, if, it's actually a huge uptick in pharmacies compared
Trevor:to the same time last year.
Joe:Well, I'd like to see a longer period of time than just one year,
Trevor:but yes.
Trevor:There we go.
Trevor:We're rattling through some topics here on our way to TikTok, There's a
Trevor:Nobel laureate economist, Angus Deaton, has delivered a rebuke to his own
Trevor:profession, what are his credentials?
Trevor:He's an economic doyen from central casting, a bow tie wearing
Trevor:econometrician, PhD at Cambridge.
Trevor:He's been at Princeton for 40 years.
Trevor:He's currently the Eisenhower Professor of Economics and
Trevor:International Affairs Emeritus.
Trevor:He won the Nobel Prize for Economics in 2015.
Trevor:And according to this article in Crikey, he's just dropped an almighty bucket
Trevor:of shit on his entire profession.
Trevor:So he lobs a bunch of truth bombs, saying that he's had a changing
Trevor:of his mind about economics.
Trevor:That he's practiced for over half a century and largely he was saying that
Trevor:we've stopped in economics thinking about ethics and what constitutes human
Trevor:well being and that if economists just focus on efficiency and leave equity to
Trevor:others, then our recommendations become little more than a license for plunder.
Trevor:And he says historians who understand about contingency and multiple
Trevor:and multi directional causality.
Trevor:Who's that?
Trevor:What's that noise there?
Trevor:That's me.
Trevor:Rhymey.
Trevor:Oh, right.
Trevor:Okay.
Trevor:wow, that's bucketing down.
Trevor:It is, yeah, but it'll stop very shortly.
Trevor:Okay.
Trevor:where are we?
Trevor:Yes, you've just moved, that's good.
Trevor:historians who understand about contingency and multiple and
Trevor:multi direction causality often do a better job than economists.
Trevor:And, he talks about the shame that unions have disappeared because they contributed
Trevor:to a Wages Share for Working People.
Trevor:But his main point, is about power.
Trevor:He says, Our emphasis on the virtues of free competitive markets and exogenous
Trevor:technical change can distract us from the importance of power in setting prices
Trevor:and wages, in choosing the direction of technological change and in influencing
Trevor:politics to change the rules of the game.
Trevor:So this economist has suddenly discovered, power, and as Bernard
Trevor:Keane in Crikey says, Deaton has only belatedly realised modern capitalism,
Trevor:particularly in its neoliberal form that disempowers governments and rivals
Trevor:like trade unions, is about the use of power by corporations to change the
Trevor:rules of the game, to increase certainty for themselves and to reduce it for
Trevor:competitors, workers and consumers.
Trevor:It speaks volumes about how sheltered many mainstream academic economists really are.
Trevor:So yeah, a Nobel laureate for economics dropping the almighty bucket of shit on
Trevor:his profession saying they haven't taken into account power imbalance enough.
Trevor:I just hear the name and think of
Joe:the presenter of Have I Got News For You in the
Trevor:UK.
Trevor:Angus Deaton, is that his name?
Trevor:Yes.
Joe:Who got into trouble for his, frequenting of prostitutes and use
Trevor:of cocaine, I think was the Well.
Trevor:Because I've been saying for a while now that economics is just this dark
Trevor:art, rather than a true science, and it's been dressed up with science.
Trevor:Mathematical models to try and make something science y out of it.
Trevor:But, they've really got some fundamental things wrong in economics.
Trevor:And the experiments have been run and people are now starting to realise,
Trevor:what a shitty sort of advice we've been getting from economists on the
Trevor:whole over the last hundred odd years.
Trevor:We should all go to school especially.
Trevor:Yeah, exactly.
Trevor:So There's a lot of myth busting to happen with economics, I think, so Certainly
Joe:in terms of power, there's been arguments that Alphabet and Apple,
Joe:who are two of the largest, they have economies that are bigger than
Joe:two thirds of the world's countries.
Joe:And obviously they have a unnatural effect in terms of international affairs as an
Joe:international You know, just, just the sheer amount of money that they could
Joe:make or break a, make or break a country.
Trevor:Yep.
Trevor:And just the fundamental need for young economies need protections and
Trevor:artificial protectionism in order to nurture new industries and, to
Trevor:keep multinational competitors out while they get a, a manufacturing
Trevor:or an industrial economy going.
Trevor:And it's.
Trevor:That's one of the most fundamental misunderstandings people have, that
Trevor:they think, Oh, you just need to open up these third world economies to allow
Trevor:them, you know, to, to enter the free market and allow the free market to enter
Trevor:them and, and efficiencies will develop.
Trevor:America was in successful countries that were built on Initial protectionism that
Trevor:they could get their industries underway.
Trevor:And then once they were underway, they were like, Oh, well, we should be opening
Trevor:up to the entire world because they've got, they've got the scale by then.
Trevor:If you actually.
Scott:I sort of disagree with what you're saying there, because if you
Scott:actually allow them to lock themselves away from the international market and
Scott:that type of thing, is it for a temporary period or is that for a longer period?
Scott:As
Trevor:long as necessary for the industry to gain control.
Trevor:It's foothold and it's expertise.
Trevor:Okay,
Scott:so Australia, when should we have dropped our manufacturing, when should
Scott:we have dropped our manufacturing tariffs on our clothing and textile industry?
Trevor:Well if we wanted to keep, if the plan was to keep that industry
Trevor:and develop it in a way that we could eventually be competitive on
Trevor:the world stage, however long that takes, but that was never the plan.
Trevor:And what you're looking at there is Australia was an advanced economy
Trevor:that moved into service delivery and abandoned manufacturing.
Trevor:But thinking of places like Latin America, where they're essentially
Trevor:agricultural, economies who might want to develop a manufacturing base, start
Trevor:making washing machines or cars or something, you can't run those industries
Trevor:while multinationals can import cheap.
Trevor:Product you have to give that protection while that local industry develops
Trevor:expertise And then once they've got the expertise they can compete
Trevor:which is exactly what China did.
Scott:Yeah, okay Yeah If we just take the example of China and Mexico right
Scott:now because Donald Trump has already threatened That if he's elected and
Scott:that sort of stuff, he was he will slap a 100% tariff on Chinese cars
Scott:that are manufactured in Mexico before they cross the border into the U.
Scott:S.
Scott:Now, I don't understand what Mexico could have done to avoid that type of
Scott:thing, because they have followed the rules, they have done exactly what
Scott:they've been told, they have developed a manufacturing industry down there, and
Scott:now they're exporting stuff to the U.
Scott:S.
Trevor:Well, what's happened is that the US banned Chinese or put
Trevor:on huge tariffs on Chinese imports.
Trevor:Yeah, I understand and so Mexico has become a backdoor for Chinese trade So
Trevor:when you look at the graphs of Chinese trade into America on the face of it,
Trevor:it's dropped But if you then take into account the increase that's gone through
Trevor:via Mexico, it's clearly been operating as a backdoor for Chinese imports.
Trevor:Do you support Donald
Scott:Trump as he's saying he wants to slap a 100 percent tariff on those cars?
Scott:Like he wants, he wants, he wants the BYD car and that sort of stuff,
Scott:because that is what's scaring the shit out of the American car
Trevor:manufacturers right now, is
Scott:because that BYD is talking about producing a car.
Scott:In Mexico, and then they're going to sell it over in the U.
Scott:S.
Scott:for around about 25,
Trevor:000.
Trevor:Which is significantly
Scott:lower than what a
Trevor:Tesla is selling for.
Trevor:I don't understand.
Trevor:If any country wants to put in a tariff regime to protect an industry that it sees
Trevor:as vital to its interests, go right ahead.
Trevor:But don't complain when other countries do it as well.
Trevor:That's the, that isn't the point.
Scott:This is the whole bloody problem.
Scott:If you get into a trade war and that sort of stuff that, you know, everyone's
Scott:just slapping tariffs on and it's
Joe:So, the reason you might want to keep a manufacturing base up is in case of war.
Trevor:Or pandemic.
Trevor:When you can't make a ventilator.
Trevor:And you can't transport it.
Trevor:We couldn't make ventilators.
Trevor:If we had some manufacturing capacity, it would be We might have been able to
Scott:say Yeah, okay, I can understand that.
Scott:I can understand that you're going to have, you know, that sort of
Scott:thing is that it's a very specialised piece of equipment, that type of
Scott:thing, it's just, I think you could actually argue that that's got to be
Trevor:protected over here.
Trevor:But,
Scott:I'm not so convinced that the car industry deserves protection.
Joe:Well, and the argument was, during the Second World War,
Joe:The car manufacturers turned their hands to producing, tanks.
Joe:Well, we didn't have, we didn't, we didn't have a company in Australia.
Joe:The reason, the reason why U S and Europe wants to, and not have it shipped all
Joe:off to China, for instance, is that in the case of a war, sure, you've got your,
Joe:whatever stock of tanks now, but if you needed to ramp up and do what the Russians
Joe:did in the second world war, we just don't have the, Capability of doing that.
Trevor:If, if you demand free trade, then you're essentially,
Trevor:making it easy for the existing powerful players to remain powerful.
Trevor:'cause they can just come in and squash any newcomers before they get, get going.
Trevor:So protectionism is fine if, if your ultimate game is to protect
Trevor:the industry until it becomes.
Trevor:Efficient enough to compete, or even if it doesn't become efficient enough
Trevor:to compete, but in the national interests, you think you need a
Trevor:subsidized manufacturing industry, for example, that just for your balance of
Trevor:your economy and security, for cause of war or pandemic or other things.
Trevor:You need, to keep certain industries and you're prepared to pay the subsidies.
Trevor:So just the sort of freedom of movement of global international goods is great
Trevor:when you're the powerful dominant player, who goes around squashing
Trevor:people, which is what's been happening.
Trevor:I mean, that's what the IMF and the World Bank did to so many developed,
Trevor:well, developing countries, third world countries in the South.
Trevor:It's it.
Trevor:Here's a loan, but the condition is you've got to allow outside entrants to come
Trevor:in and sell whatever into your country.
Trevor:You're really good at making, at growing bananas, so you keep
Trevor:growing bananas and leave washing machines and cars to other countries.
Trevor:End.
Trevor:That's why they never got, manufacturing industries.
Trevor:And countries like America did exactly that.
Trevor:They, they put in tariffs and restrictions to, to protect their
Trevor:infant industries until they got big enough that they didn't need it.
Trevor:That's the story of economics.
Scott:Yeah, I know, that's the history lesson of it, but I just don't think that,
Scott:you can say to any emerging economy and that sort of stuff that you can protect
Scott:your industries right now, and then in 10 or 20 years time you've got to wind
Scott:back your tariffs because I just think to myself that they're not going to bother.
Scott:Because once they've got, once they've got their manufacturing and everything up, and
Scott:they're employing the numbers of people that are required for that type of thing,
Scott:I just don't think that they're going to be interested in lowering their tariff
Trevor:barriers.
Trevor:Well, but
Joe:if they want to export.
Joe:Sorry?
Joe:If they want to export.
Joe:So you build up your manufacturing base, and you've tapped out your national base.
Joe:market and you want to expand overseas, then you start
Joe:doing, you know, tit for tat.
Joe:If I want to export to the US, which is a huge market, then I
Joe:have to, you know, allow traffic in
Trevor:reverse.
Trevor:So other countries will say, no, not mailing your goods in because
Trevor:you've got these tariffs here.
Trevor:So at some point the country goes, well, we're just going to pay that
Trevor:price because It's in our interests, or it becomes politically unsavoury.
Trevor:So Australia made the decision.
Trevor:We didn't want to subsidise a clothing manufacturing industry.
Trevor:There wasn't the will to do it.
Trevor:So we let it go.
Trevor:There we go.
Trevor:I'm sure in this article, let me just find it here.
Trevor:We just talked about this Nobel Laureate, ta ta ta ta, talked about
Trevor:multi nationals, can't find it, anyway, and just finally, still from Crikey,
Trevor:the Reserve Bank trashed the economy, and for what, and basically, that.
Trevor:Yesterday's, well now this must be an old article, the December quarter national
Trevor:accounts from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, so from the ABS, information
Trevor:came out to say that in December, quarter on quarter growth was just 0.
Trevor:2%, in per capita terms the economy contracted by 0.
Trevor:8 percent in the December quarter.
Trevor:Bullock and the RBA board had made a call, to increase interest rates.
Trevor:At the time, retail sales were up 1.
Trevor:5 percent in November.
Trevor:But the ABS said that's because consumers are feeling the stress and they're taking
Trevor:advantage of discounting by retailers during Black Friday and other events.
Trevor:It's not because it's a buoyant economy, it's because shoppers
Trevor:are getting in early on discounts.
Trevor:And that's why sales were up 1.
Trevor:5 percent in November, which the Reserve Bank took for a buoyant economy that
Trevor:needed a further whack around the head.
Trevor:And and in fact what happened was sales slid 2.
Trevor:1 percent in the normally buoyant month of December.
Trevor:And, as I said in the Crikey article, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs
Trevor:when the country's statisticians The Australian Bureau of Statistics can see
Trevor:what's happening to an important area of household spending while the so called
Trevor:premier economic analysts at the Reserve Bank make desperate consumers, a mistake.
Trevor:Desperate consumers for an overheating economy.
Trevor:Sorry, what's that Joe?
Trevor:I'm waiting for
Joe:them to say, well, this is a per capita problem.
Joe:And so we just need to do some decapitation and
Trevor:solve the problem.
Trevor:Yes.
Trevor:That's probably what they'd come out with.
Trevor:So, so just.
Trevor:Hopeless at the RBA, people buying up in, the ABS proves that it was people
Trevor:buying in November because they were broke, getting something cheap, and
Trevor:the RBA took that for a buoyant economy that needed a whack around the head.
Trevor:And our stupid treasurer, Jim Chalmers, wanted to get rid of those,
Trevor:the reserve power that allowed the government in emergencies to override
Trevor:the Reserve Bank on monetary policy.
Trevor:For God's sake, just, oh, for God's sake.
Trevor:Right.
Trevor:8.
Trevor:59.
Trevor:We've gone an hour and we're only just getting to TikTok.
Trevor:Well, it's going to be a long one.
Trevor:Ah.
Trevor:I find this TikTok thing to basically encapsulate the
Trevor:world we're in at the moment.
Trevor:So let, anybody got to go anywhere?
Trevor:You're reaching for a second beer there, Scott, are you?
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Settle in.
Trevor:Let me find a video to set the scene for the TikTok fiasco.
Trevor:This, dear listener, is, who is this lady, Ashley Hinson, Republican, proud mum
Trevor:and wife representing Iowa in Congress.
Trevor:And she's bringing a dose of Iowa common sense to Washington.
Trevor:That's how she describes herself in her Twitter profile, so.
Trevor:Let's, see the mood amongst congressmen and women in America when it comes to
Trevor:TikTok and your average person in Iowa.
Trevor:Well hi everyone, this is your congresswoman, Ashley Hinson.
Trevor:As a mom of two boys in middle school, I understand the challenges
Trevor:surrounding kids social media use.
Trevor:And as a member of Congress, I can tell you that TikTok is a Chinese Trojan
Trevor:horse used to steal Americans data.
Trevor:It's used to control the narrative on key issues in our country and
Trevor:to hurt our kids mental health.
Trevor:So that's why I helped to introduce legislation that would force TikTok
Trevor:to cut ties with its parent company.
Trevor:By Dance, a company that is beholden to China.
Trevor:They'd have to do this in order to keep operating in the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:Now, as many of you have heard, TikTok is spreading a lot of misinformation.
Trevor:They're telling users that we in Congress are going to ban TikTok.
Trevor:They took it way too far last week by sending out a push alert
Trevor:to young kids, prompting pure panic about the app's future.
Trevor:So let me set the record straight.
Trevor:We are working in Congress to pass legislation to protect your privacy.
Trevor:Protect our national security.
Trevor:and to keep your phone safe from hacks.
Trevor:We are working to ensure that China does not control the content that you see.
Trevor:TikTok wants you to think they get you, but they're working hard to control
Trevor:you and to control what you think.
Trevor:ByteDance, which is TikTok's parent company, is tracking your
Trevor:keystrokes, your passwords, and your phone activity to advance China's
Trevor:intelligence and influence in the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:So think about it like a Chinese spy balloon right in your phone.
Trevor:It's pretty simple.
Trevor:All TikTok has to do is to sever ties with China to keep their American users.
Trevor:So I am proud to lead this effort and will continue working to ensure that China
Trevor:cannot exert control over our country or continue hurting our kids through TikTok.
Trevor:The time is up for this Chinese spyware.
Trevor:There you go.
Trevor:It's just like a Chinese spy balloon.
Trevor:Guys, and what did we find out about Chinese spy balloons?
Trevor:They definitely exist, but they weren't spying on anything.
Trevor:It was a complete beat up to say that this is just like the Chinese spy balloon.
Trevor:That was the only thing she said that was That was correct.
Trevor:That was the only thing that, and she, it is exactly like a
Scott:Chinese spy balloon.
Scott:Yeah, I
Trevor:understand that.
Trevor:Complete bullshit.
Scott:The Chinese spy balloon was shot down by the Yanks and that sort
Scott:of stuff, and I agreed wholeheartedly with them because something blew off
Scott:course and all that sort of stuff.
Scott:It invaded U.
Scott:S.
Scott:airspace, so they had to
Trevor:take it out, so they shot it down.
Trevor:It accidentally crossed U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:airspace.
Trevor:Yeah, I know.
Trevor:It didn't invade U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:airspace.
Scott:Okay, whatever, it accidentally found its way there, they had to shoot it
Scott:down, so it was shot down, that was it.
Scott:Now, the whole thing was, the Yanks were very secretive about it and
Scott:all that sort of stuff, it made us, made them look like idiots, you
Scott:know, because I think once, once you finally found out what was on the spy
Scott:balloon, they found out it was nothing.
Trevor:Which is what the case is when it comes to TikTok as well.
Trevor:Yeah, I know.
Scott:It's also like, you know, when I was listening to her nonsense
Scott:where she said that, you know, They're in there stealing your
Scott:passwords and all that sort of shit.
Scott:I just thought to myself, Jesus
Trevor:Christ, you know, this woman's a nut.
Trevor:Mm hmm.
Trevor:That's one of the few things that Congress has agreed on
Trevor:very quickly in recent times.
Trevor:Yeah, I know.
Trevor:So, they've come together.
Trevor:She's a nut.
Trevor:Well, to, to
Scott:no to to pass legislation, to actually pass legislation to be in TikTok,
Trevor:to, for the change of ownership of TikTok.
Trevor:Otherwise, it's not allowed to operate in.
Trevor:So, Yeah, cause they're
Joe:concerned that, Facebook is losing market
Trevor:share.
Trevor:Yes.
Trevor:Well, well, it's this McCarthyism of, you know, red's under the bed, you
Trevor:know, Chinese under your, in your phone.
Trevor:Is white dead
Scott:earned by the Chinese government or not?
Trevor:Well, we're going to get to that.
Trevor:So, well, let me actually give you the exact bit on that.
Trevor:So.
Trevor:so this is according to the TikTok website, but I think we can take this
Trevor:sort of factual information as being true.
Trevor:So myth, TikTok's parent company ByteDance is Chinese owned, and they say fact,
Trevor:TikTok's parent company ByteDance was founded by Chinese entrepreneurs, but
Trevor:today roughly 60 percent of the company.
Trevor:is owned by global institutional investors, such as the Carlyle
Trevor:Group, General Atlantic, and Susquehanna International Group.
Trevor:So 60 percent international.
Trevor:An additional 20 percent of the company is owned by ByteDance employees around
Trevor:the world, including Australians.
Trevor:And the remaining 20 percent is owned by the company's founder,
Trevor:who is a private individual.
Trevor:It is not part of any state or government entity.
Trevor:So, the parent company ByteDance owns Well, and TikTok doesn't
Trevor:operate in mainland China.
Trevor:there's a different, software, I'll get to the name of it in a second, which, which
Trevor:they control, but which runs in China.
Trevor:No, that's WeChat, isn't it?
Trevor:no, it is, let me just see here.
Trevor:It is Douyin, D O U Y I N.
Trevor:So that's the Chinese version of TikTok.
Trevor:And, So no TikTok in China.
Trevor:Instead, they're using, ion and the Chinese government owns 1% of ion.
Trevor:That's what it owns.
Trevor:So for by dance itself, that owns TikTok.
Trevor:No.
Trevor:60% international, 20% employees, 20%.
Trevor:The original Chinese founder, it owns, by dance, owns Doyon.
Trevor:And the Chinese government owns 1%.
Trevor:And it does that because, if you have a media organisation in China,
Trevor:then the government by law has to own 1 percent as part of the media.
Trevor:Wikipedia says this is a golden share,
Joe:which allows it to outvote everybody
Trevor:else on the board.
Trevor:And in Douyin or in ByteDance?
Trevor:In ByteDance.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:And that, is a myth.
Trevor:So, let me just see what they say here.
Trevor:So, myth.
Trevor:The Chinese government has a golden share interest in ByteDance.
Trevor:And the fact.
Trevor:As required under Chinese law, in order to operate certain news
Trevor:and information products that are exclusively in China, media license
Trevor:is required for those services.
Trevor:As such, an entity affiliated with the Chinese government owns 1 percent of
Trevor:the ByteDance subsidiary, ByteDance.
Trevor:com.
Trevor:and it says this is a common arrangement for companies operating news and
Trevor:information platforms in China.
Trevor:This arrangement is specific to services in the Chinese market and has no bearing
Trevor:on ByteDance's global operations outside of China, including TikTok, which
Trevor:does not operate in mainly in China.
Trevor:So
Trevor:who do we believe, Wikipedia or the TikTok
Joe:company that possibly has an interest in telling you?
Trevor:But the author of the Wikipedia article, who do we know?
Trevor:Wikipedia has to
Joe:reference, so it references a Reuters article
Trevor:and a couple of others.
Trevor:You could probably jump onto Wikipedia and write the contrary
Trevor:article based on the reference to TikTok's own public statements.
Trevor:Sorry.
Trevor:I'm prepared to go with the TikTok version, but we'll, we'll see.
Trevor:So, that gives you a little picture anyway.
Trevor:TikTok is the non Chinese version.
Trevor:Douyin is the Chinese version.
Trevor:And, this guy on TikTok, on Twitter, Brendan Carr, was saying, In America,
Trevor:TikTok pushes videos to kids that promote self harm, eating disorders and suicide.
Trevor:In China The version of TikTok available there.
Trevor:The app shows young kids science experiments, museum exhibits,
Trevor:and other educational material.
Trevor:And a guy I follow a lot on Chinese stuff is Arnaud Bertrand,
Trevor:and he says, this is false.
Trevor:There's been lots of scandals in China about Douyin, the Chinese version of
Trevor:TikTok, and the harm it did to kids, including a scandal about a famous
Trevor:influencer who live streamed her suicide, and a scandal about, eating disorders.
Trevor:Which is why contrary to the US, the Chinese government legislated Douyin,
Trevor:and put in all sorts of limitations in terms of content, moderation, number
Trevor:of hours, kids could be on it, etc.
Trevor:TikTok in the US, it's down to the US legislators.
Trevor:If they wanted to, US legislators could, implement the exact rules as China.
Trevor:There'd be absolutely nothing that prevents them to do so.
Trevor:In fact, TikTok was created for this very reason, because the mother company
Trevor:ByteDance knew that given the ecosystems and culture in China and the rest of
Trevor:the world were so completely different, you simply could not have the same app.
Trevor:So Douyin was to be regulated by the Chinese government and
Trevor:adapted to Chinese citizens.
Trevor:TikTok was to be regulated by the West and adapted to their citizens.
Trevor:And he says it's not China's fault if the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:doesn't.
Trevor:Doesn't take their regulation job seriously.
Trevor:So Joe, when it comes to like the, the golden share that allows China to do
Trevor:whatever it wants, China, Chinese company can do whatever it wants with, with
Trevor:a company in China, anyway, without a share, like they can just, they can just
Trevor:say, you're going to do this, even if they don't even own a share, they don't
Trevor:need it for things that happen in China.
Trevor:U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:government do the same in the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:Yeah, so the sort of, the idea of, you know, this golden share is kind of a
Trevor:bit, red herring, if you like, because we're talking about power, and when it
Trevor:comes to things happening in China, the Chinese government can do whatever they
Trevor:like, golden share or not, in terms of regulating what companies do in
Joe:China.
Joe:Yeah, the question is, do they have control over the power
Trevor:of the company?
Trevor:And, If the parent company's operations are outside of China, then you'd have
Trevor:to say that would be difficult to do.
Trevor:So Yes, but if, if
Joe:the board operate, because the head office is in China.
Trevor:No, it's not.
Trevor:So if the board are in China No, it's not.
Trevor:So the head office is in, Singapore.
Trevor:Singapore.
Trevor:Is it?
Trevor:yeah.
Trevor:So the CEO is, he's Singaporean.
Trevor:Yep.
Trevor:So it's got, it's established in Los Angeles and Singapore, so, Just
Trevor:a few more bits about, ByteDance, well actually let me just go back
Trevor:to, we're still talking about image, that sort of stuff, Decisions, myth,
Trevor:decisions about TikTok are made in Beijing, and here's their response.
Trevor:ByteDance.
Trevor:TikTok's CEO is a third generation Singaporean based in Singapore.
Trevor:He oversees all key day to day and strategic decision
Trevor:making when it comes to TikTok.
Trevor:The COO, Guy Pappas is an Australian based in the United States.
Trevor:He oversees content, operations, marketing and product teams for TikTok.
Trevor:The senior leadership team is based in Singapore, the United States and Ireland.
Trevor:as we expected with any subsidiary of a holding company, high level
Trevor:discussions around financial matters and corporate governance are made in
Trevor:concert with ByteDance board and the CEO.
Trevor:None of those individuals reside in mainland China.
Trevor:So, what they say here is it's an entertainment app.
Trevor:The content of TikTok is generated by the community.
Trevor:So, it's up to the community to generate the content.
Trevor:And the secret source of TikTok is, of course, the algorithm that,
Trevor:keeps people in there watching it.
Trevor:And, it says here, there are no TikTok content moderators in China.
Trevor:Content moderation on TikTok is overseen by our Singapore, US and
Trevor:Ireland led trust and safety teams.
Trevor:it says, the myth that the Chinese government could compel ByteDance to
Trevor:share Australian TikTok user data.
Trevor:And it says Australian TikTok user data is stored in Singapore, Malaysia
Trevor:and the US, subject to local laws.
Trevor:TikTok does not store user data in China and has not shared Australian
Trevor:user data with the Chinese government and would not even if it asked.
Trevor:But apparently my understanding is, that the reason Facebook and Twitter
Trevor:don't operate in China is because the Chinese said, we don't want you storing,
Trevor:Chinese citizen data outside of China.
Trevor:And Facebook and the rest refused.
Trevor:So that's why they don't operate in China.
Trevor:So the concerns that the West has, oh, the data is held in China and the
Trevor:Chinese will get their hands on it and cause problem for our citizens.
Trevor:Is wrong.
Trevor:The data is not held in China.
Trevor:That's the same concern that China had about Facebook.
Trevor:interesting sort of switch up there.
Trevor:So, ah, what else have we got here in the Myth vs.
Trevor:Fact section?
Trevor:uh, okay.
Trevor:That was the main Myth vs.
Trevor:Fact stuff.
Trevor:Just on, you know, everything from China is a security threat.
Trevor:There was an article from the New York Times.
Trevor:Headline, Biden calls Chinese electric vehicles a security threat.
Trevor:there's an article from the BBC.
Trevor:Chinese garlic is a national security risk, says US Senator.
Trevor:An article from the Wall Street Journal.
Trevor:Pentagon sees giant cargo cranes as possible Chinese spying tools.
Trevor:An article from, I can't read that one.
Trevor:China may be spying on you through your coffee maker, expert says.
Trevor:I think that's news.
Trevor:New York Times.
Trevor:Fearing spy trains, Congress may ban a Chinese maker of subway cars.
Trevor:And of course we all know about the Chinese spy balloon.
Scott:So.
Joe:Well, in terms of the cars, I would be worried, I'm, I'm worried about Tesla.
Joe:Apparently Tesla have shut down the cars of people who've been critical.
Joe:Right.
Joe:So there's been some really weird stuff going on.
Joe:Basically, all these, modern cars phone home for every,
Joe:electronic thing that they do.
Joe:Right.
Joe:I, I have a friend who works on, the integration piece of all, electronic,
Joe:all the control systems, all the drive by wire systems, all go through.
Joe:And he says all functions now literally phone back.
Joe:To the main server, the, the manufacturer's server.
Joe:Yep.
Joe:for permission before they'll enable a module.
Joe:Right.
Joe:So you, you remember BMW famously were going to charge for heated seats.
Joe:Well, you were gonna have to subscribe and pay so many dollars a year to have your
Trevor:heated seats turned off.
Trevor:Yes, I do.
Trevor:Yes, we did that story.
Trevor:Yeah.
Trevor:Yes.
Trevor:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joe:So.
Joe:All new cars, basically every function that you press an electronic button
Joe:on the dashboard, it phones home to find out whether you're allowed
Joe:to do that before it'll do that.
Joe:And all of these manufacturers, if they so choose, could turn off your car remote.
Joe:And they're saying worse than that, if these cars are in an area where they have
Joe:no mobile coverage and lose battery power, so they've lost their settings, When you
Joe:power them back up and they can't phone home to find out whether you're allowed
Joe:to do anything, the car won't even start.
Trevor:See, there's an argument though, if you accept that, these social platforms
Trevor:are going to collect all this data on you, if you want to use one and you're
Trevor:American, you, you'd be better off using TikTok because the Chinese government
Trevor:has no, control over you, whereas the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:government does.
Trevor:So if, if, if they were all gathering data about you and you were worried
Trevor:about them using it against you, you'd actually rather someone like the
Trevor:Chinese have it than the Americans, because they've got no, jurisdiction
Trevor:over you, if that makes sense.
Trevor:just in terms of what they collect.
Trevor:They say, TikTok's privacy policy describes the data the company collects.
Trevor:To be clear, the current versions of TikTok app do not monitor
Trevor:keystrokes or content of what people type when they use our in
Trevor:app browser or third party websites.
Trevor:and do not collect precise GPS location in Australia.
Trevor:We only collect approximate location information to ensure a
Trevor:relevant user experience including being served the right ads.
Trevor:And that does not use face or voice prints to identify individuals.
Trevor:I remember when we were talking about this, not so long ago, where TikTok
Trevor:basically said to the authorities, Come and look at our software, come
Trevor:and look under the hood, come and see that what we're saying is true.
Trevor:We're just not going to let you look at the algorithm that determines how
Trevor:Things show up in front of people.
Trevor:But all this sort of stuff, you can look at our coding to
Trevor:confirm what we're saying is true.
Trevor:So, do you remember us talking about that or not?
Trevor:Is that just my imagination?
Trevor:I don't
Scott:remember us talking about that.
Trevor:I don't remember.
Trevor:Yeah, anyway, I'll try and find that somewhere because
Trevor:I'm sure we talked about that.
Trevor:anyway, guess what opposition leader Peter Dutton wants to do?
Trevor:He
Scott:wants to ban TikTok in Australia just like the US does.
Scott:He's a dickhead.
Trevor:Correct, looking at hashtags on TikTok.
Trevor:This was in a seven day period to December 22, 22nd of December, 2023.
Trevor:so hashtags on TikTok.
Trevor:The top, well, Free Palestine, 82 million.
Trevor:Free Palestine with a love heart emoji and a Palestinian flag.
Trevor:I'll then give you the next, sort of, most popular hashtags on the
Trevor:topic of Palestine Gaza Israel.
Trevor:Free Gaza, Free Palestine, Palestine TikTok, Save Gaza, Stand with
Trevor:Palestine, I Stand with Palestine, From the River to the Sea, Save
Trevor:Palestine, End the Occupation, Pray for Palestine, Palestine will be free.
Trevor:They're all pro Palestinian.
Trevor:The first hashtag that then comes up is I Stand with Israel,
Trevor:with two million hashtags.
Trevor:So, the views on something like Israel and Hamas on TikTok.
Trevor:Tik Tok are very much pro Palestine, which might be a reason you think to
Trevor:get rid of it from the US point of view.
Trevor:But, apparently Facebook and Instagram show a remarkably similar
Trevor:gap when it comes to their hashtags.
Trevor:On Facebook, the hashtag free Palestine is found on more than 11 million
Trevor:posts, 30 times, 39 times more than those with hashtag stand with Israel.
Trevor:so that's interesting that, even the other ones are very pro
Trevor:Palestine compared to Israel.
Trevor:So tiktoks actually not that out of place.
Scott:It's one of those things, I just think to myself that, this is what I was
Scott:saying when I was last on here, when I said that, this is leading to a change
Scott:of the opinion about Israel, you know, it's, I'm not surprised to read that,
Scott:that you've got all these pro Palestinian hashtags, you know, from the river to
Scott:the seas, the only one offends me, but, you know, all the rest of them are fine.
Scott:Mm mm.
Trevor:So, I read an article.
Trevor:I'll have a look at the comments by people in a moment, but just,
Trevor:last couple of things on this.
Trevor:So, as you know, dear listener, one of the, pains I go through on your
Trevor:behalf is to read the courier mail.
Trevor:The courier fail, religiously.
Trevor:If that's not worth signing up to the Patreon for, I don't know what is.
Trevor:Do you get it
Scott:delivered in paper or do you just grab it electronically?
Scott:Just
Trevor:digital, yeah.
Trevor:Electronically, yeah.
Trevor:So, this article from the Courier Mail, Clock is ticking to block TikTok,
Trevor:and story about, you know, obviously the US decision, and um, now, Home
Trevor:Affairs Minister, Claire O'Neill, in the government, she said, We're
Trevor:monitoring the progress of the bill in the US and will take additional action
Trevor:if and when relevant agencies advise us to It is appropriate to do so.
Trevor:God's sake, Labor.
Trevor:If some spook in ASIO says, Well, you better get rid of TikTok.
Trevor:Are you going to just follow that advice?
Trevor:Are you just going to think about it?
Trevor:Of your own accord?
Trevor:No, you're just going to take the advice.
Trevor:I can tell that's what's going to happen.
Trevor:But anyway, James Patterson, on the opposition's national security
Trevor:spokesman, said Australia could not afford to be left behind on the issue.
Trevor:It says that the Albanese government should be preparing legislation today.
Trevor:Now in this article, it goes on, cyber security expert Susan McLean said
Trevor:if the bill progresses in the US, Australia should follow suit, quote,
Trevor:these decisions and the people that are presenting to Congress and the Pentagon
Trevor:are whiz bang cyber security experts.
Trevor:If the American government believes that TikTok is of national security concern.
Trevor:Then we, as a friend of America, should realise if it is a risk.
Trevor:If it is a risk in one Western country, then it is a risk in another country.
Trevor:Dear listener, cyber security expert Susan McLean, when I read that, she's
Trevor:quoted as saying, these people are whiz bang cyber security experts.
Trevor:My antenna just went off.
Trevor:Went off and I'm going, I'm not so sure about the credentials of Susan
Trevor:McClain as a cyber security expert.
Trevor:Anyway, she goes on, Australia would have to be mindful of its diplomatic
Trevor:relations with China, but national security must remain the priority.
Trevor:Quote, we are geographically closer to China, and we have to be mindful
Trevor:of maintaining diplomatic relations, but if push comes to shove, if the
Trevor:company is acting in a way that risks national security, Then that
Trevor:should be the priority, she said.
Trevor:And I'm just thinking to myself, who the fuck is this cyber
Trevor:security expert, Susan McLean?
Trevor:And a quick Google, and I'm on her website, she's got a website called Cyber
Trevor:Safety Solutions, where she describes herself as Australia's foremost expert
Trevor:in the area of cyber safety and was a member of Victoria Police for 27 years.
Trevor:Widely known as the Cyber Cop, she was the first Victorian police officer
Trevor:appointed to a position involving cyber safety and young people.
Trevor:In 2003, she was the Victoria Police Regional Youth Officer of the Year.
Trevor:She's been awarded the National Medal and the Victorian Police Service
Trevor:Medal and the National Police Medal.
Trevor:And in 1994, she took her first report of cyber bullying involving
Trevor:a group of year eight school girls.
Trevor:Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Trevor:In short, dear listener, she's just dealt with.
Trevor:Cyberbullying, children in high school and other stuff like that.
Trevor:She doesn't
Joe:understand the technology, she understands its impact in society.
Joe:Yes.
Joe:It's very, very
Trevor:different.
Trevor:Exactly.
Trevor:And she's, on the face of what is on her website, knows nothing about the
Trevor:topic that we're discussing here.
Trevor:And she's quoted in the Courier Mail as cyber security expert,
Trevor:giving her two cents worth.
Trevor:That's it.
Trevor:This is just the sort of crap that we have to deal with
Trevor:every day from this There was a
Joe:big story about the thousands of motherboards from
Joe:China With a secret chip in bed.
Joe:Yes.
Joe:Yeah
Trevor:Yeah,
Joe:I'm sorry.
Joe:I went and looked that up because I remembered that story it turns out the
Joe:manufacturer Had built this thing that would automatically download drivers
Joe:to save you installing the manually So that your machine would automatically
Joe:have the latest and greatest drivers and that if somebody nefarious had
Joe:got into that supply path They could automatically push out Nasty software
Joe:to your computer, but there was nothing in there was no physical thing on the
Trevor:motherboard No evidence that it was that nefarious purpose.
Trevor:It was there just as an aid to software updating It was a badly thought out
Joe:aid
Trevor:in terms of security.
Trevor:R.
Trevor:Not a yes.
Trevor:It, it, it,
Joe:it had been, misreported in one source and other sources
Joe:had just copied and pasted.
Trevor:Mm-Hmm.
Trevor:Let's run through the comments, from the most recent going backwards.
Trevor:Whatley.
Trevor:Oh, whizbang.
Trevor:Liam, China has actually done some great work in holding out
Trevor:against the tech giants, which are anti-competitive and bad for innovation.
Trevor:Indeed, they have.
Trevor:John Salmon says the bill probably won't pass the courts.
Trevor:Hmm, might be held unconstitutional.
Trevor:James says we have our own James Patterson.
Trevor:I think that's most of the comments on that.
Trevor:Well, a year and a half.
Trevor:This is like the old days, isn't it?
Trevor:And I've still got a whole, I've got a whole section of subs.
Trevor:Which I'll reserve for next week.
Joe:I think we should ban all social media apart from things like
Trevor:Mastodon.
Trevor:Yeah, well, do we need to ban them?
Trevor:Just let people use them and make up their own mind.
Trevor:It's
Scott:one of those things, like, you know, I was a very early
Scott:adopter of Facebook, but now I'm just hardly ever using it.
Joe:I looked on Facebook recently and I reckon of my news feed in quotes.
Joe:30 percent is adverts, another 30 percent is news groups, is groups
Joe:that I've never joined and it's just decided I'm interested in, and 30
Joe:percent is stuff that I've actually
Trevor:subscribed to.
Trevor:Well dear listener, you're lucky you've subscribed to the Iron Fist Velvet Glove
Trevor:podcast and you've received another 90 minutes of informed commentary.
Trevor:Hope you've enjoyed it.
Trevor:We'll speak to you next week, where we'll talk about subs, we'll talk
Trevor:about Israel and Gaza, we'll talk about what the Pope says about Ukraine.
Trevor:You might remember, dear listener, a few months ago, other guys here on this
Trevor:podcast were saying But the counter offensive would sort things out and, I was
Scott:calling No, what I actually said was that it's going to be slow
Scott:going and we've got to see what actually is going to happen from that.
Scott:Now, it appears that Russia has dug in a hell of a lot stronger than
Scott:the Ukrainians were anticipating.
Scott:And now that you've got this situation that the West is foundering
Scott:on actually supporting Ukraine.
Scott:So, I think that Vladimir Solinsky is going to be forced to go in and do a
Scott:deal with that bastard, who will actually only use the time and that sort of stuff
Scott:to build up his forces, and he's going to pinch the whole fucking country.
Scott:Because he's a
Joe:prick.
Joe:Putin has said all along, all he had to do was outweigh the
Joe:West, the West would get bored.
Joe:Exactly.
Scott:Which is what is happening, you know, and I just think to myself that
Trevor:It's a very interesting moment in time, where we've had just
Trevor:the US so dominant militarily, and just the idea that, you know, there's
Trevor:other powers out there, and they can invade a country and get away with it.
Scott:Ah, but they wouldn't have actually bought, they wouldn't
Scott:have actually attempted that had there been a signatory to the NATO
Trevor:treaty.
Trevor:Maybe not.
Trevor:But you know, there's just, there's just these challenges to US hegemony.
Trevor:We've got, you know, the US.
Trevor:You know, starts confiscating Iranian oil ships.
Trevor:Well, Iran starts confiscating American oil ships, and you've got, there's a
Trevor:lot of fight back to the idea of the U.
Trevor:S.
Trevor:hegemon, so.
Trevor:it's interesting times and, and really, you know, a lot of US power or money
Trevor:is tied up in naval power, which is extremely vulnerable, really expensive
Trevor:missiles, which, you know, you sort of run out of quickly in terms of sort of
Trevor:just tanks and artillery and stuff because they've been paying through the nose.
Trevor:Overpriced for these defense contracts.
Trevor:They haven't been getting the bang for their buck, even though they've
Trevor:been spending so much money So the capacity to wage war isn't as great
Trevor:as we might think it is But anyway, that is all for discussion next week
Trevor:because an hour and a half is more than enough We'll talk to you then.
Trevor:Bye for now.
Scott:And it's a good night for me.
Scott:And it's a good night for
Trevor:him.
Trevor:Good night