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Episode 406 - Separating Cultural Groups and State
In this episode we look at objections to religious privilege and how that compares to other cultural groups and whether ancestral rights are a valid distinction. Plus other bits and pieces.
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Transcript
Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over time,
Speaker:evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homo sapiens.
Speaker:But today, we observe a small tribe akin to a group of meerkats that
Speaker:gather together atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the
Speaker:current events of their city, their country, and their world at large.
Speaker:Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the
Speaker:Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:Hello and welcome back dear listener, yes, episode 406 of the Iron Fist
Speaker:and the Velvet Glove podcast, I'm Trevor, with me as always, Scott
Speaker:the Velvet Glove, how are you Scott?
Speaker:Good thanks Trevor, g'day Trevor, g'day Joe, g'day listeners,
Speaker:I hope everyone's doing well.
Speaker:Hopefully they are.
Speaker:And Joe, it's...
Speaker:Morning time for you, and we've brought it forward an hour so you can
Speaker:run some errands later this morning.
Speaker:Welcome aboard again, Joe.
Speaker:Morning, all.
Speaker:Enjoying your travels over there, Joe?
Speaker:It's all good fun?
Speaker:I've been looking after Mum, so it's been hard work, but it's nice
Speaker:to see her after five years, and a glorious sunshine day after the
Speaker:miserable few days we've been having.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Ah, just go for a walk in the English countryside, is that what you do?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not really, she's got Parkinson's, so walking's quite difficult for her.
Speaker:Ah, okay.
Speaker:Alright, well, what are we going to talk about?
Speaker:Got a few religious issues have cropped up, so we'll talk about those.
Speaker:And a new speaker in the Congress in the US, and an essential report just
Speaker:came out looking at people's attitudes to renewable energy and climate change.
Speaker:Maybe a brief word on Gaza.
Speaker:So yeah, I haven't done as much preparation as I normally do.
Speaker:So this one's going to be a little bit scatty, I think.
Speaker:A little bit more free flowing.
Speaker:We'll see where we end up on this.
Speaker:So yeah, all over the shop, probably.
Speaker:Guys, I didn't give you this one because it just came in late, but, got
Speaker:this email which was, The Australian Financial Review has an article
Speaker:suggesting retirees should be allowed to exempt any proceeds from downsizing
Speaker:from the age pension means test.
Speaker:People don't want to downsize if they get their pension reduced.
Speaker:And the writer of this email says, All I see is baby boomer homeowners who
Speaker:want to have their cake and eat it too.
Speaker:Why not include home value in the means test?
Speaker:All these exemptions warp the system into inflating asset prices.
Speaker:Makes me mad!
Speaker:Exclamation mark.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly with him.
Speaker:I think to myself that they should never have exempted the
Speaker:private home from the assets test.
Speaker:It's got to be in there because, you know, you're going to find a,
Speaker:you know, I can just see it now.
Speaker:You've got this position, you know, you've probably got this woman that Bought the
Speaker:house in the 30s in Vaucluse and now it's worth over two or three million bucks.
Speaker:In Vaucluse, try five, six, ten.
Speaker:Okay, fair enough.
Speaker:Rightio.
Speaker:I don't know, but anyway, it's a hell of a lot more and she's going to be sitting
Speaker:on an aged pension when she's sitting on a, when she's sitting on a property
Speaker:that's worth five or six million dollars.
Speaker:So I don't have any complaint with that at all.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly with that bloke.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Joe, you've got a message inter, oh, it's your internet that appears flaky.
Speaker:The rest of us seem okay.
Speaker:Hopefully, yes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, there already is an exemption where if you sell your home and downsize, you
Speaker:can already roll some of that into super.
Speaker:I'm not exactly sure of the amount, but I know it's a few hundred
Speaker:thousand dollars worth for each.
Speaker:Husband and wife.
Speaker:So, and then once it's in super, that of course is exempt from a means test.
Speaker:And it's exempt from income tax and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker:I'm not sure if it's exempt from the means test.
Speaker:I would have thought that was just an asset in the means test.
Speaker:I couldn't tell you.
Speaker:Maybe if it's, if you've converted it into a income stream, it will be.
Speaker:It would be exempt from the assets.
Speaker:Yeah, that would, yeah, because that, that then the income stream forms part
Speaker:of the income test for the asset and a lot of superannuation income stream is
Speaker:exempt from the income test as well.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The short answer is as a boomer, you can pour a lot of money into
Speaker:super and still get Absolutely.
Speaker:We have a substantial amount of attention.
Speaker:I'm the first to admit that I am taking advantage of the
Speaker:income tax laws right now.
Speaker:You know, I am, I am minimizing my income tax.
Speaker:I have bought a rental property and I have also.
Speaker:Put in, uh, what is it, 250 bucks a week this year into superannuation,
Speaker:you know, it's If the income tax laws are going to be structured this
Speaker:way, I will take advantage of them.
Speaker:Thank you Kerry Packer.
Speaker:Yes Yeah, exactly, you know, yeah, it's fair enough to like no criticism at all.
Speaker:That's the law that applies.
Speaker:You're entitled.
Speaker:Exactly I was I was playing by the rules, you know, and
Speaker:do I think it's morally right?
Speaker:No, I don't.
Speaker:I don't think it's morally right But, these are the rules that the government
Speaker:has given us to play by, so we've just got to play by the rules, and if you play by
Speaker:the rules, and if you can make the rules work for you, you just, good luck to you.
Speaker:What will actually really piss me off is if we go and...
Speaker:If they change it down the track and they turn around and say, oh yeah, we'll, you
Speaker:know, we can only have it, you can only have it, you can only have the income
Speaker:from superannuation tax free for those people that are already 70 years and
Speaker:older and everyone else that's getting into that stage, you're going to have to
Speaker:start paying a little bit of income tax.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There's, there's all these no government's prepared to do anything
Speaker:without grandfathering existing provisions a lot of the time.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:So, which is what it's set up for the boomers.
Speaker:The boomers are okay.
Speaker:'cause they're gonna be grandfathered.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:The rest of us aren't, well, hopefully we are getting old enough,
Speaker:but with every year that passes, we
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But if you're young, no.
Speaker:What are they, what do they call?
Speaker:You know, I have said before to the younger people, I have apologised
Speaker:to them, I've apologised to members of my family, you know, it's,
Speaker:I was born at the right time.
Speaker:Yet another reason to vote Green, Scott, because they seem to be the party that's
Speaker:going to tackle these sorts of things.
Speaker:Yeah, I suppose.
Speaker:Hmm, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, okay, I got some, I got some things came along.
Speaker:There was an article about Jehovah's Witness family and being forced.
Speaker:To allow blood transfusions for their child in an operation.
Speaker:And also saw an article about a Catholic hospital that wouldn't allow voluntary
Speaker:assisted dying, which surprised somebody who wanted to access it.
Speaker:And also an article about Christian prayers.
Speaker:So, this is a Melbourne council has ditched Christian prayer.
Speaker:Let's start with that one.
Speaker:Baroondara.
Speaker:They stopped using prayer at meetings.
Speaker:They've dumped the traditional Christian prayer after lawyers complained it
Speaker:was a breach of human rights law.
Speaker:And the city voted on it and motion passed 9 votes to 1 to remove the prayer.
Speaker:And in case you were wondering what the prayer was, here is the wording.
Speaker:Ahem.
Speaker:Almighty God, we humbly seek your blessings upon this council.
Speaker:Direct and prosper its deliberations to the advancement of your glory
Speaker:and the true welfare of the people of the city of Borroondara.
Speaker:Amen.
Speaker:So Scott, is that a good thing?
Speaker:Get rid of the Christian prayer?
Speaker:Yeah, it is.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Why should we get rid of the Christian prayer?
Speaker:Just, what's the basic reason there?
Speaker:Okay, because you, okay, it's a Why are we against that?
Speaker:Well I know why I'm against it.
Speaker:I'm against it because it's non inclusive.
Speaker:You know, it, it restricts the, it restricts the rights and
Speaker:all that sort of stuff to one particular subset of the community.
Speaker:So you've got this thing that is saying that, you know, well, the Christians are
Speaker:the majority over here, so we've just got to say a prayer for them every time.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've got absolutely no problems with secular invocations and that type of
Speaker:thing that are completely non religious.
Speaker:That, that's the way we should go, you know, because there was that council
Speaker:where that nutter and everything was in Melbourne, or no, Adelaide, wasn't it?
Speaker:There was that nutter that was saying that the Prius lately.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:Anyway, there was a nutter that was, I think it was in Adelaide Council, that Was
Speaker:screaming at the Christian prayer and that sort of thing, and they just said, no,
Speaker:you can't do that, you've just got to...
Speaker:And what they were going to replace that with was a moment of silence.
Speaker:I think it was a minute's silence, something like that, the beginning of
Speaker:the whole thing, where the councillors were encouraged to think about the work
Speaker:they were doing and that type of thing.
Speaker:Which I've got absolutely no problem with.
Speaker:Yeah, it wasn't a minute of quiet contemplation.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Which allowed the religious to pray to their gods and the non religious
Speaker:to think about what they were doing.
Speaker:Exactly, yeah.
Speaker:Let me play devil's advocate.
Speaker:I know what you're going to say.
Speaker:That's because you've read my notes.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:You know, I wasn't sure if you wanted me to jump in or not.
Speaker:Yeah, so the basic initial reason is it's not inclusive.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Is that, is that what we're at?
Speaker:Yeah, it is.
Speaker:Not inclusive of...
Speaker:But, you know, arguably it was a sharing of culture.
Speaker:It was a generous invitation to share their culture.
Speaker:Wasn't hurting anybody.
Speaker:And, you know, what's the harm in that?
Speaker:I think you're going with his smoking cigarette.
Speaker:And as I had 50 years of the culture shared with me at school.
Speaker:And they're just sharing their culture and it doesn't hurt us.
Speaker:And after all, religious leaders know what's good for their
Speaker:flock and their flock wants it.
Speaker:So if Yeah.
Speaker:That's their flock.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:If their, if, if Christians want this and if their leaders know what they
Speaker:want and it doesn't harm us, then it's.
Speaker:That should be good enough that we just do it, if it's no skin off our nose.
Speaker:But I think that I think that the percentage of that sort
Speaker:of thing the believers in the community are shrinking, isn't it?
Speaker:Well, you know, 30...
Speaker:Doesn't matter whether it is or isn't.
Speaker:Just a substantial number.
Speaker:It might be a substantial number, but it's now in the minority.
Speaker:So I think they're just going to have to accept their, their new position and
Speaker:that type of thing, otherwise you'll end up with the Republic of Gilead.
Speaker:Yes, as is happening in America.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:As we head down the track.
Speaker:So, I don't know, I just, you know, during the voice debate, and
Speaker:people say, ah, you're going to be banging on about that all the time.
Speaker:I keep getting emails from people.
Speaker:So it's hard not to, when you keep getting emails from people.
Speaker:Saying you've said things that you haven't even said, and other stuff, and
Speaker:so you just sort of feel a knee jerk reaction to respond, but, you know,
Speaker:some of the key arguments given were that Indigenous people want this, it
Speaker:doesn't hurt us, and their leaders know what they want, and you know, it's a
Speaker:generous offering of sharing of culture.
Speaker:Literally, that's the type of emails I'm getting.
Speaker:And you could say exactly all that about the Christian prayer.
Speaker:No, I suppose you can say that.
Speaker:And we're saying no to them.
Speaker:No, we don't want your culture shared with us at this point.
Speaker:Thank you very much.
Speaker:I do think that a smoking ceremony and that type of thing is basically a...
Speaker:It's an outward showing and that sort of stuff.
Speaker:I don't think you actually have to take it seriously.
Speaker:It's just that they just...
Speaker:Blow smoke over people and that type of thing and they let you go in.
Speaker:Is anybody out there who voted yes, who is against smoking ceremonies?
Speaker:I guess that's what I'd like to know.
Speaker:Is it possible?
Speaker:Are you in favour of smoking ceremonies?
Speaker:No, not really.
Speaker:Not really.
Speaker:Or even welcome to country.
Speaker:Let's just keep it easy with smoking ceremonies.
Speaker:It's got that sort not really.
Speaker:I don't really like them and that type of thing.
Speaker:If they're going to do them, they might as well do it.
Speaker:But I don't, I don't really like them.
Speaker:Because it's, it's, it's...
Speaker:You mean it's like a prayer?
Speaker:It seems to me very similar to a prayer.
Speaker:Yeah, I know that.
Speaker:I know that.
Speaker:It is very similar to a prayer, but it's just, is what it is,
Speaker:you know, there were the...
Speaker:Is it the, because it's a, cultural groups wanting to, uh, have their
Speaker:cultural, um, well, what it?
Speaker:Stamp of approval?
Speaker:No, no, no, practice, um, displayed and observed by everybody.
Speaker:And...
Speaker:So the question is, I just find it difficult, um, for people who would
Speaker:be against a Christian prayer, but not against a smoking ceremony.
Speaker:I'd like to know the logic of that.
Speaker:Okay, well the only logic I can come up with, the only difference
Speaker:I can come up with there is they were the, you know, they were the
Speaker:original, original inhabitants of the continent that we now inhabit.
Speaker:I think you're right.
Speaker:I think that's, they're both cultural groups.
Speaker:They're both
Speaker:trying to promote...
Speaker:So it's they're both cultural groups.
Speaker:They're both looking to, um, sort of display a cultural tradition.
Speaker:In both cases, the smoking ceremony and the Christian prayer have
Speaker:this, you know, woo factor to them.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And...
Speaker:The difference, the only difference I can see is this sense that Indigenous
Speaker:people have an inherited ancestral land right or right to country
Speaker:that makes them different to...
Speaker:Connection.
Speaker:That makes them different to Christians.
Speaker:That's the only difference I can see.
Speaker:And so then I'd say, okay.
Speaker:You must then be respecting ancestral rites and their
Speaker:passing down through generations.
Speaker:Yes, but now you're Republic.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:So then I would ask, is it possible to be against the Christian prayer,
Speaker:and in favour of a smoking ceremony, but also in favour of a Republic?
Speaker:Because...
Speaker:Prince, you know, King Charles would say, I have an ancestral right.
Speaker:Yeah, I know he would and that type of thing, but we, we,
Speaker:we are moving beyond that.
Speaker:And that type of thing, we're saying that, you know, you might
Speaker:have that right in Britain.
Speaker:You don't have that right here in Australia.
Speaker:Well, even in Britain, do you think that the royal family should
Speaker:continue with the ancestral right as kings and queens in Britain?
Speaker:No, not really.
Speaker:Do you think it'd be okay for the British people to say, let's have
Speaker:a referendum and just get rid of...
Speaker:The ancestral power that's handed down in this family.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:I, I think that with, I think that would be something that if I was in Britain,
Speaker:that's something I'd be arguing for.
Speaker:Right, because you would say that that ancestral power is
Speaker:was wrong, is not necessarily a good thing to be handed down.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It gets tricky.
Speaker:It's in convoluted things you have to go through.
Speaker:I can just say, yeah, we're all here on the same boat.
Speaker:We all should be treated equally and.
Speaker:No special favours for any cultural groups, it's, it's really simple.
Speaker:I do tend to agree with you, but it's just,
Speaker:my argument for voting yes was it was the, it was the first time I could ever
Speaker:remember them getting together as a group and asking for something from us.
Speaker:So we can all say, sorry, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt, sorry, sorry.
Speaker:The other thing too was that it was the first time that I've ever
Speaker:actually asked anything of us.
Speaker:And the other thing was, I just thought to myself I was trying
Speaker:to protect it from the Tories.
Speaker:Because, you know, the Tories did tear apart ATSIC when all they
Speaker:needed to do was reform it, you know?
Speaker:What about the whole Native Title Act and all that?
Speaker:Did the Tories ever try and reduce that?
Speaker:HOward had a go at it.
Speaker:He he had that ten point plan that was around the WIC decision, didn't he?
Speaker:Can't remember.
Speaker:Just, yeah, just can't remember.
Speaker:He had a go at it and that sort of stuff, which the Labor Party did
Speaker:go into conniptions about, but they never actually repealed any of it.
Speaker:What about the Javers Witness one, where the,
Speaker:Whether family didn't want their kid to have, say, a blood
Speaker:transfusion often happens.
Speaker:I think a child is something you've got to actually take out, because a child
Speaker:is not of 18, is not 18 years of age, so he or she cannot make their own mind
Speaker:up to have, to actually go in and not have potentially life saving treatments.
Speaker:A lot of Indigenous communities are asking, in the Uluru
Speaker:Statement, for self determination.
Speaker:For example, that's a big thing, and I mean, that's self determination
Speaker:for all Indigenous people.
Speaker:Adults, children, it's, it's talking about the ability for Indigenous people
Speaker:to self determine their group is one of the things that's, you know, on
Speaker:the agenda over the next few years.
Speaker:Well, I don't think it's going to get up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I just, it just can't.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Because, you know, you can't, you can't have, you can't have the country divided
Speaker:into little groups and that sort of stuff, saying, well, you can govern
Speaker:yourselves, you can govern yourselves.
Speaker:You'd end up, you'd end up with, you know, they wouldn't actually
Speaker:be paying tax to the whole thing.
Speaker:It would just, the whole thing would fall over.
Speaker:So you'll be against that one?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely I would be.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Because it's just impractical.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:If you read One Law for All, Mariam Namazi talks about the Muslim commercial law
Speaker:that's being allowed effectively in the UK and saying that for things like divorce,
Speaker:um, it's being forced through a religious court and the UK government is signing off
Speaker:on it and that leads to unequal outcomes.
Speaker:Effectively, the women are held to ransom by the religious court.
Speaker:Yeah, I know that.
Speaker:That is ridiculous.
Speaker:And that's a risk where you have separate groups having their own laws.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:It's like, you know, the there was that case years and years ago, I don't
Speaker:even know if it's true, but I always remember it was reported on that they,
Speaker:a guy had been accused of raping a young girl and that type of thing,
Speaker:so the elders said, no, we're just going to throw a spear through you.
Speaker:So they put a spear through his leg and that type of thing, and
Speaker:they said, well, it's all quits.
Speaker:And that bloke, if that was true, he should have faced the full, he should have
Speaker:been, he should have been facing the DPP, the DPP should have brought charges, they
Speaker:should have tried him in a court of law.
Speaker:And then after that, he should have gone into a custodial sentence.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:In the chat room, Tom the Warehouse Guy says, If you're covering religion
Speaker:tonight, I would definitely raise Spain's report on the Catholic Church sex abuse.
Speaker:Anyone familiar with that one?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Sorry, Tom, I'd raise it, but I'm not familiar with it.
Speaker:We'll put that on the homework sheet.
Speaker:I'm the Royal Commission report.
Speaker:It's one of those things that, you know, it seems every other day there's some
Speaker:sort of report over the excesses of the Catholic Church that's coming out.
Speaker:You've just got to think to yourself, well, you know, part of
Speaker:the background noise now, isn't it?
Speaker:In Canada, there was a folk singer and social justice advocate, Buffy St.
Speaker:Marie.
Speaker:Who has denied allegations she misled the public about her
Speaker:Indigenous ancestry, after a Canadian documentary questioned the shifting
Speaker:narrative surrounding her Cree roots.
Speaker:So, quite a famous Indigenous social activist person, whose
Speaker:indigeneity has come into question by the equivalent of what's our ABC.
Speaker:Yes, the CBC, the Canadian Royal Catholic Commission.
Speaker:And, loCal tribe has come to her defense, and that's just an ugly
Speaker:conversation that we could do without.
Speaker:It's a kind of like the who's the guy who wrote Dark Emu What was his name?
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:Pasco.
Speaker:Pasco.
Speaker:Where there were arguments over.
Speaker:Whether he was actually Indigenous or not and well with the failure of the
Speaker:voice vote that's one argument we've skipped by for the moment which was
Speaker:bound to happen would have been members of that group having their indigeneity
Speaker:questioned at some point so if you're looking for a silver lining on a
Speaker:dark cloud maybe that's one of them.
Speaker:And finally, still on this issue before we move on to others you
Speaker:guys heard of the Horizontal Falls?
Speaker:No, I only read it when I read it when you emailed this.
Speaker:Yes, in the Kimberley region.
Speaker:So they have up there large tidal shifts, so as the waters move from
Speaker:open water to inland water through narrow gorges, you get what they
Speaker:call like a horizontal waterfall as the water's rushing through a gorge.
Speaker:dIfferent tourism operators have spent a lot of money setting up tourism stuff
Speaker:to take people on boats through that sort of gap and enjoy the rapids at the
Speaker:correct tide time and local Indigenous group are saying it's a bit disrespectful
Speaker:and wanting to shut that down.
Speaker:Any thoughts on that one, Scott?
Speaker:Yeah, that is a little bit ridiculous that you got something like that
Speaker:because it's a piece of land.
Speaker:Which has got a unique water running through it.
Speaker:So It's nothing special or anything like that.
Speaker:It's just it is unique.
Speaker:It does not mean it's sacred It does not mean it's got religious.
Speaker:It doesn't mean it's got religious or spiritual significance It's just a unique
Speaker:waterway that I believe should be open to every Australian or international visitor.
Speaker:Okay Be consistent on that one What else have I got here?
Speaker:So let's move on from that.
Speaker:I just wanted to explore some of those topics and get you thinking,
Speaker:dear listener, about some of those.
Speaker:But you know what?
Speaker:I'm done with the voice for the moment.
Speaker:I really want to get away from it, so...
Speaker:I think so.
Speaker:Now what have we got here is, you've been keeping tabs of the new
Speaker:Speaker in the US Congress, Scott?
Speaker:He's a Christian right wing nutter.
Speaker:And election denier.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly, you know, it's one of those things like the Republicans
Speaker:really were backed into a corner over this because it had been going
Speaker:on for three weeks, they couldn't even sort it out amongst themselves.
Speaker:So they had to nominate someone, and they nominated this guy.
Speaker:What was really concerning was there was a guy from, well, one of the states, I can't
Speaker:remember which one it was this morning, was on a podcast I was listening to.
Speaker:They said that they asked him why wouldn't he vote for Mike Johnson
Speaker:when they f when they, when he first came up, and he said, because he's
Speaker:elect, he's an election denier, so I'm not gonna vote for an election.
Speaker:Deni.
Speaker:He's turned around and voted for an election denier right now because
Speaker:there was literally no one else.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things, it's it was on
Speaker:lost it now, can't think what it's called.
Speaker:Anyways, listened to it this morning and he reckons that you could be seeing
Speaker:the disintegration of the GOP, the Grand Old Party, into two factions.
Speaker:And those factions will probably be the MAGA, right wing occultists,
Speaker:and then you got the sort of Reagan style Republicans that are left over.
Speaker:So that's what they reckon is going to happen is it will splinter and you're
Speaker:gonna have the MAGA Republicans They'll be trying to steal votes off the normal
Speaker:sane Republicans And the normal sane Republicans are gonna be trying to do
Speaker:battle against the MAGA Republicans.
Speaker:Neither side's going to win So they're gonna have to divide the country up and
Speaker:say well you guys run down here We'll run up here and then we'll come together
Speaker:and we'll put together some coalition to take government in the future but what
Speaker:they're actually saying was that leaves it open for the Democrats to Be in a strong
Speaker:position for the next 10 or 15 years.
Speaker:But I wouldn't be so sanguine about that because Trump's ahead on the polls.
Speaker:Yeah, no, and Joe Biden is looking terribly old.
Speaker:He's looking terribly old.
Speaker:You know, he's already 81 or something like that.
Speaker:You know, he's just far too old.
Speaker:You know, the voting public in America still hates Democrats.
Speaker:still willing to vote for him.
Speaker:Like, they're in a, you know, they're on a steady diet of Fox News
Speaker:over there and other crazy stuff.
Speaker:And yeah, as much as we might think it's impossible that they would do it
Speaker:again, it seems the most likely scenario at this stage, particularly if...
Speaker:It does, it is very frightening.
Speaker:Mm, so...
Speaker:And again, it doesn't need to be a majority of voters.
Speaker:It just needs to be enough states that the electoral colleges swing.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Ooh!
Speaker:And you just need some player like RFK Jr.
Speaker:to come in and maybe split the Democrat vote or...
Speaker:Who's that other professor type guy who might split the vote and you're in
Speaker:all sorts of trouble for the Democrats.
Speaker:They reckon that RFK will probably end up splitting the Trump vote
Speaker:because he's a vaccine hater.
Speaker:So, you know, they reckon that he's got that in common with Donald Trump, and
Speaker:that type of thing, which I gather he is running, then he could end
Speaker:up splitting the, he could end up splitting the Republican vote.
Speaker:From an Australian point of view, would it be such a bad
Speaker:thing if Trump was re elected?
Speaker:Well, I mean, you think, okay, well, you know, it depends on your position
Speaker:on AUKUS which I imagine that you would actually be quite happy with that if
Speaker:they did actually walk away from it.
Speaker:Because he'd be quite likely to say, there's no way I'm giving
Speaker:these Australians submarines.
Speaker:We haven't got enough for ourselves.
Speaker:Get stuffed.
Speaker:America first.
Speaker:Australia last and...
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And he would actually, you know, he'd actually say to Vladimir Putin
Speaker:and that sort of stuff, Yeah, it's alright, you can have Ukraine, I'm
Speaker:not going to send him any more arms.
Speaker:And Ukraine will be rolled over in a couple of weeks.
Speaker:And, um, NATO.
Speaker:He will walk away from that too, because the guys are...
Speaker:Might walk away from Israel as well.
Speaker:Like he's got no loyalty to anything.
Speaker:I don't think he, he stick with Israel.
Speaker:Israel, is he?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Because the Trump base is very much those Right-wing Christian nutters.
Speaker:Ah, yes.
Speaker:And the Christian nutters rely on the whole, um, religious connotations
Speaker:of the, of the re the rise of Jews in Jerusalem type thing.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:exactly.
Speaker:In order to sre up once Jews.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In order to shore up that Christian base, he will need to maintain his pro.
Speaker:Israel.
Speaker:Israel.
Speaker:So I don't think that Israel is going to be walked away from.
Speaker:I was going to say also, the Israelis are a very, very, sorry, the Jews in
Speaker:America are a very powerful lobby faction.
Speaker:sO, so there's a lot of Aid that goes to Israel just because of the diaspora,
Speaker:the number of Jews who fled war torn Europe and are now in powerful positions,
Speaker:and that's not a Jewish conspiracy, that's just saying that there's a lot
Speaker:of loyalty in Congress towards Israel.
Speaker:I think it would be very hard for Trump to walk away from that.
Speaker:And that's not necessarily a right wingers, that's across the board.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I don't know, on the whole it could be positive for the rest of
Speaker:the world because let's face it, one of the big problems in the world is, you
Speaker:know, American foreign policy, aggressive foreign policy, and Trump is one of
Speaker:the ones who's not interested in it.
Speaker:I know he's not interested.
Speaker:He's not interested in it, which he'd be, you know, he'd be leaving
Speaker:the Philippines out on their own.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So the Philippines are the only ones that have actually taken to China to
Speaker:task over the South, south China Sea.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. And they had that win in the maritime courts and that sort of thing, and
Speaker:China has ignored that, but the year they've still got that there and
Speaker:they do actually wave it in front of China and that type of thing.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:and the Philippines are actually able to back that up because they, you
Speaker:know, it's gotta point to the American bases that are on their, on their soil.
Speaker:If Trump was to pull out of the Philippines, then the Philippines would
Speaker:actually have to rely on their own and they'd be collapsing down in their
Speaker:seat and they'd be saying to China, yeah, you can do whatever you want.
Speaker:Hang on a second.
Speaker:Which means that, yeah.
Speaker:But Trump knows a lot about China.
Speaker:Can I give you an example?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Let's see China.
Speaker:You take China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:I love them.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:I have to have my China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China because China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:I know China very well.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:Northwest Wisconsin where I'm from.
Speaker:It's China to me.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:You wanna buy from China?
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:Buy from China.
Speaker:Buy toys from China.
Speaker:China in particular.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:I have people that I know in China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:China?
Speaker:China!
Speaker:Let me ask you about China.
Speaker:China.
Speaker:I go to China.
Speaker:So don't tell me about China.
Speaker:I know China.
Speaker:He knows China.
Speaker:You can sort it all out.
Speaker:Yeah, okay.
Speaker:He knows, he knows China and that sort of thing, but he, you know, it's, it's one
Speaker:of those things, like at least Biden is saying all the right things over Taiwan,
Speaker:whereas Trump being America first and that sort of thing, I think he would
Speaker:actually take that very seriously and he'd say to Taiwan, well, you're on your own.
Speaker:Yes, he would.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:Which is not necessarily a good thing, you know, and now I know you and I
Speaker:differ on that, but the Republic of China is now an independent country
Speaker:and should be treated as such.
Speaker:Well, I think AUKUS is the biggest blunder that Australia's Labour
Speaker:Party has ever done in living memory.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly with you.
Speaker:If Trump causes that to fall over, that's a good thing for us.
Speaker:It would be.
Speaker:If the world can survive for then the following four years, that would be great.
Speaker:So Yeah, see how it's one of those things I think I think if we did have to walk
Speaker:away from Orcus and that type of thing We had if we had to buy our own submarines
Speaker:Then I think the Japanese would be in a very powerful position where they'd say
Speaker:to Australia Well, we've still got these submarines over here if you're interested.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:So then we ended up buying them from Japan now I think they'd They planned
Speaker:on manufacturing the first two in Japan and the rest of them were going to be
Speaker:manufacturing in Adelaide, wouldn't they?
Speaker:Ah, look, it's just so fanciful that any of it's going to be
Speaker:constructed in Australia that I couldn't pay attention to it.
Speaker:Oh, that's in Aucas.
Speaker:That's in Aucas.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly with you there.
Speaker:That's they will, you know, there's no way in hell they'll end up manufacturing
Speaker:any of them here in Australia.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:But, I think Japan said that they were going to manufacture the first two
Speaker:over there in Japan, and they were going to move the manufacturing here
Speaker:to, here to Adelaide, weren't they?
Speaker:I don't, I can't remember the detail.
Speaker:I did see an article that talked about how many bombs you can put on a submarine.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:It wasn't many.
Speaker:So the cost per bomb that you get to launch is frightfully large and...
Speaker:That's just one of the other factors about the submarines.
Speaker:I'll come, I'll find that story and, and share it next week.
Speaker:Look, we don't have, we don't have the landmass to have ICBMs though.
Speaker:No, we don't, we don't have the landmass to have ICBMs, but you
Speaker:know, you can, if you've got a, if you've got, what do you mean by that?
Speaker:What are you saying?
Speaker:We don't have the landmass for ICBMs.
Speaker:What do you mean by that?
Speaker:Sorry, I was being sarcastic.
Speaker:Yeah, I thought so.
Speaker:You know, even if you didn't, even if you didn't want ICBMs, which I don't
Speaker:think we need over here, but if you just wanted, if you just wanted enough
Speaker:missiles to make Australia a porcupine not porcupine, it's the Echidna.
Speaker:Echidna, you want to make Australia an echidna, then you've just got to have
Speaker:enough missiles and that sort of stuff that could end up Striking ships that
Speaker:are coming down through whatever that place is through Indonesia So, you know
Speaker:Then you don't even have to have very long range missiles that you can set up
Speaker:there in the northwest of the country You could have them you can have them
Speaker:set up on U boats and that type of thing that they could go out there and
Speaker:they Could sink that they could sink the bastards when they were coming.
Speaker:It's one of those things, you know, it's
Speaker:Actually had to agree with Paul Keating when he was giving a very,
Speaker:when he gave his very detailed critique of the Orcas arrangement.
Speaker:You know, China's got absolutely no reason to come to invade
Speaker:Australia because there's no point.
Speaker:And they'd have to go through so many countries before they got here that
Speaker:would be taking potshots at their armada when they were coming down here.
Speaker:They'd have to, they'd have to invade A hell of a swathe of Southeast Asia,
Speaker:by the time they actually got here, their forces would be stretched and
Speaker:that type of thing, that they would be easily defeated in an invasion.
Speaker:So...
Speaker:Nothing to worry about.
Speaker:I agree, it's nothing to worry about.
Speaker:You know, it's one of those things.
Speaker:Things we need to worry about are things like climate change and renewable energy.
Speaker:And let me just try and find, and share this screen now for the
Speaker:essential poll and thoughts on that.
Speaker:So, ah, let me just get this.
Speaker:No, it's not that's not that one.
Speaker:It is a share screen tab share.
Speaker:And there we go.
Speaker:Shuffle that around.
Speaker:Does that look better, Joe?
Speaker:Am I got that right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Looking at the screen, question was, as far as you know, do you think
Speaker:Australia's doing enough, not enough, or too much to address climate change?
Speaker:And, um, back in August 2016, uh, so seven years ago, 52 percent
Speaker:of people said, not doing enough.
Speaker:And that's fallen now to only 38 percent think we're not doing enough.
Speaker:To address climate change.
Speaker:People who think we're doing too much was only 22%, but that's risen also to 38%.
Speaker:So it's kind of equal.
Speaker:The number of people who think we're not doing enough and the number who
Speaker:think we're doing, oh hang on, so I've read that yeah, and the number who
Speaker:say we're doing enough is about equal.
Speaker:Isn't that interesting?
Speaker:Australia divided Equally, so about 38 percent say not doing enough,
Speaker:uh, 38 percent say doing enough, and there's a significant number,
Speaker:17%, who say we're doing too much.
Speaker:That doesn't augur well, Scott, because my gut feeling is that
Speaker:we're nowhere near doing enough.
Speaker:No, we're not doing enough.
Speaker:To address climate change.
Speaker:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker:Scott, let's look at gender responses to that.
Speaker:They're pretty even ish to tell you the truth.
Speaker:Not huge amounts of difference that way.
Speaker:Age wise not doing enough, young people more likely to say that.
Speaker:But again, not a huge number of differences on that one for age
Speaker:either, so interesting on that one.
Speaker:There's one here let me find this one.
Speaker:Support for nuclear energy, so, dear listener, at different times
Speaker:I've tried to explain much to...
Speaker:Disagreement with John from Dire Straits about nuclear energy,
Speaker:but if you look at any scientific report about the cost of nuclear
Speaker:energy, it's exorbitantly expensive compared to all the other options.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And you've then got the danger of nuclear accidents, and then
Speaker:you've got the problem of waste.
Speaker:And you've also got the incredible lead time needed to construct
Speaker:these things 10 or 15 years before your first one gets operating.
Speaker:So there's a whole range of risks with nuclear energy, but despite
Speaker:all that, um, to the question, to what extent do you support or oppose
Speaker:Australia developing nuclear power plants for generation of electricity?
Speaker:Oh four years ago, June 19?
Speaker:In support of nuclear energy, it was 39%, and now that's 50%.
Speaker:And opposing nuclear energy was 44%, and that's dropped to 33%.
Speaker:So for some strange reason...
Speaker:Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker:I was going to say Dutton and the LNP have been pushing it hard.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:To distract attention away from renewables.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So they reckon they're going to meet their climate, their carbon
Speaker:emissions targets by building nuclear.
Speaker:They know it's not feasible.
Speaker:But it kicks the can down the road.
Speaker:So we stop talking about getting rid of fossil fuel for another 10 years
Speaker:whilst we distract people with nuclear.
Speaker:Sounds like an excellent theory, an explanation of what's happening, Joe.
Speaker:Let's look at voting intention to see if it backs up what you've said and
Speaker:in support of, uh, nuclear energy.
Speaker:It's that second line, the coalition, and you've got 67.
Speaker:Percent are in favor well ahead of any of the other categories.
Speaker:Labor, for example, would be 43.
Speaker:So 67 for the coalition, 43 for labor in terms of support for nuclear energy.
Speaker:So you're right that support is coming from coalition side.
Speaker:juSt looking at the looking at the cost.
Speaker:Please rank the following sources of energy in terms of total cost
Speaker:including infrastructure and household price where one is the most expensive
Speaker:and three is the least expensive and
Speaker:Let me just see what have we got here
Speaker:38 I'd like to see I'd like to see that compared to the actual cost.
Speaker:You know, we've got what everyone thinks it costs, but I'd like to see real costs.
Speaker:We've done real costs.
Speaker:We've done the levelised cost of electricity.
Speaker:And that looks at the cost of the infrastructure that you need, of
Speaker:installing the, you know, if it's nuclear power plants, the nuclear power plants,
Speaker:if it's, you know, renewables, then...
Speaker:The solar panels, whatever, the transmission lines that you need, and
Speaker:then the decommissioning of all that and amortising all of those costs over time.
Speaker:And that's the one where nuclear comes out incredibly expensive.
Speaker:So, yeah, I've lost track.
Speaker:I thought on that one, I saw a graph that showed young people were fully aware
Speaker:that nuclear costs more than the others.
Speaker:So, Yes.
Speaker:In fact, here's the chart here.
Speaker:So, young people were the ones who rated nuclear energy as the most expensive.
Speaker:They knew that was the case, but older generation were not aware of that.
Speaker:But we've definitely done that on this podcast.
Speaker:bAck in the days of 12th Man, actually.
Speaker:Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I remember having that conversation with the 12th man.
Speaker:I said to him five or 10 years ago, I would've agreed with you, not now.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. There we go.
Speaker:And the likelihood to reach net zero target by 2050 and
Speaker:only only 31% think it's.
Speaker:It's quite likely, or very likely, um, that Australia will meet
Speaker:its net zero emissions by 2050.
Speaker:Which is really weird, given in the first question they said, are
Speaker:you doing, are we doing enough?
Speaker:And a significant number of people said we were, so, yeah.
Speaker:You've also got those other people saying, you've also got those other people
Speaker:saying we're doing too much, so, they probably just don't give a toss about it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, and that's what I think.
Speaker:Hello, gang.
Speaker:It doesn't matter whether or not we meet our net zero.
Speaker:Ah, yes, you're right.
Speaker:Okay, so, alright, 30, so 7 percent think it's very likely, and 24
Speaker:percent think it's quite likely.
Speaker:So that's a total of 31 percent think it's likely, or very likely, that
Speaker:Australia will meet net zero by 2050.
Speaker:So that's 31%.
Speaker:And the initial question, addressing climate change
Speaker:Are we doing enough and, um,
Speaker:and doing enough was 38%, not doing enough was 38%, and doing too much was 17%.
Speaker:I don't know what to make of all these figures.
Speaker:I don't think people, I don't know what to make of them.
Speaker:Well, I'd fit into the unsure category as to whether or not we are doing enough
Speaker:to ever reach the net zero by 2050.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Let me just find, back to the notes, okay that was that one.
Speaker:Any thoughts on the Gaza crisis and in particular the size of the
Speaker:pro Palestinian demonstrations in various parts of the world?
Speaker:I don't think there's any doubt that there's a hell of a lot of
Speaker:pro Palestinian argument out there.
Speaker:I agree wholeheartedly with them.
Speaker:Actually it's, it's one of those things, you don't want to be pro
Speaker:Hamas, because Hamas is a terrorist organization, but I can understand
Speaker:why they're pissed off, you know, they have been treated very badly over the
Speaker:last, ever since Israel was formed.
Speaker:You know, it's, it's one of those things, they have been treated so terribly
Speaker:badly, it's no wonder they hate them so much, but I do not believe that
Speaker:it's right for them to say that the Jews shouldn't be in the whole area.
Speaker:The Jews are there, the Jews have been there since the dawn of time, so they've
Speaker:got to actually deal with it, don't they?
Speaker:So there was a UN resolution calling for a ceasefire.
Speaker:Which I agreed wholeheartedly with, there should have been a ceasefire.
Speaker:And Australia.
Speaker:Abstained.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:What do you think of that?
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:Do you know why they abstained?
Speaker:Because they didn't actually, they didn't actually lambast, lambast Hamas,
Speaker:Hamas, as a terrorist organisation.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Which I thought was very churlish.
Speaker:You know, it's, uh, it's one of those things, I just think to myself,
Speaker:did I actually really support that?
Speaker:No, not really, because I just think to myself, that was very churlish
Speaker:of them not to actually abstain.
Speaker:Back it.
Speaker:Because all they were doing was asking for a ceasefire so that they could
Speaker:get some aid in for the civilians.
Speaker:Now, I've got no doubt that Hamas would try and use that Break in time
Speaker:to actually get some more weapons and that sort of stuff involved But now
Speaker:that Israel is coming down on them like a ton of bricks It doesn't matter how
Speaker:many AK 47s they're gonna get into, Israel's gonna take them all out.
Speaker:Hmm, you know?
Speaker:So yeah, Australia abstained, basically saying this resolution doesn't bag Hamas
Speaker:enough as a terrorist organization.
Speaker:So without that context in there, we're not willing to pass this resolution.
Speaker:Which I could understand, I could understand them saying that, but
Speaker:you know, they could have actually said it, but we are, you know,
Speaker:they could have actually said it.
Speaker:And then said after that, look, we are still going to back it because we think
Speaker:it's important that there is a ceasefire.
Speaker:Yeah, and I mean, how much context do you need?
Speaker:Because then other people could have said, well, you know, and why are
Speaker:they a terrorist organisation because of the other killings that have gone
Speaker:on beforehand, when, and, and, you know, you could keep going back and
Speaker:back and back and keep adding more and more context it wouldn't have been
Speaker:that hard to pass a resolution, but...
Speaker:You know, you look at the map of the world and who are the countries that
Speaker:either abstained or voted against it and you know, it's that sort
Speaker:of western powers, if you like.
Speaker:Not all of them.
Speaker:United States, Canada, most of Europe.
Speaker:Invariably, sort of South America, Africa, Asia, developing countries were
Speaker:the ones who were passing the resolution.
Speaker:Sigh.
Speaker:That sort of divide in the United Nations.
Speaker:Yeah, um, it's...
Speaker:It's one of those things, I just don't think it's going to be sorted out.
Speaker:Do you follow any Instagram accounts or any social media where you're seeing the
Speaker:graphic images of what's going on in Gaza?
Speaker:No, I don't.
Speaker:How about you, Joe?
Speaker:No, the closest I've come is the Bellingcat report which was...
Speaker:Basically pointing out that a lot of those images are recycled from other conflicts.
Speaker:So to be very careful what you see on them.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But, we can be pretty sure that there's lots of dead bodies
Speaker:being pulled out from rubble.
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:And rushed to hospitals.
Speaker:Oh, for sure.
Speaker:They're just such terrible scenes that I think,
Speaker:Israel's reputation is just going down the toilet further and further with every day.
Speaker:Absolutely it is, it's one of those things, it's bloody criminal
Speaker:what they're actually doing.
Speaker:You know, I know that they've got to target them and that sort of stuff,
Speaker:but you can't actually say that we're going after military targets because
Speaker:there aren't any military targets in an area that's basically a city.
Speaker:You know, it's, and they can say it, they can say how they like that the command
Speaker:and control centers are based in the hospitals, but you've still got to blow
Speaker:up a fucking hospital and destroy it.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:You know, so it's...
Speaker:Yeah, and that's exactly why Hamas do it, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:They're doing it, they're doing it to try and, they're doing it to try
Speaker:and turn around and say, well look, Israel's bombing our hospitals.
Speaker:Well, they wouldn't bomb the hospitals if you didn't actually put your
Speaker:command and control centres in.
Speaker:And so the question is, at the end, who's at fault?
Speaker:I think there's fault on both sides.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker:So it's not just Israel bombing the hospitals.
Speaker:It's also Hamas cynically using the hospitals as protection.
Speaker:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker:I remember years ago...
Speaker:It's one of those things I said right from word go that, you know, do we honestly
Speaker:believe that the PLO were as well armed as the IDF, that they would exercise
Speaker:the same restraint as the IDF has?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:I honestly don't think they would.
Speaker:Or would they, would they push the Jews into the Mediterranean?
Speaker:I think they'd push the Jews into the Mediterranean.
Speaker:Well, if either side could, they'd push the other into the Mediterranean.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:If either side could.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I remember listening to Sam Harris talking years ago and saying, you know,
Speaker:with the Palestinians they would put a child in front of them as a defensive
Speaker:shield, knowing that the, that the Jews would never fire on them, yet if the
Speaker:Jews were to do the same thing, of course the Palestinians would fire on them.
Speaker:And I just, you know, I wonder if he goes back to that moment on that
Speaker:podcast, because, you know, the.
Speaker:Hamas have put children and civilians in hospitals in front of them,
Speaker:and the Jews are defied anyway.
Speaker:Like, it's literally the same thing, it's just more distant.
Speaker:It's kind of like the trolley problem, isn't it?
Speaker:You know how with the trolley problem where the more detached and remote you are
Speaker:from the action, the easier it is to do?
Speaker:So, you know, if it was flicking a switch, but you can't push the fat man.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:And we're kind of in that situation with the Israel, with this conflict to
Speaker:some extent, because to a large extent, the injuries inflicted by Hamas were
Speaker:pushing the fat man onto the tracks.
Speaker:Like their hands were covered in blood doing the deed, whereas.
Speaker:The Israelis have been flicking the switch to change the track to kill
Speaker:people, which is just slightly more remote and seemingly more acceptable
Speaker:For some.
Speaker:I suppose what I see makes it more acceptable is the idea for in uniforms
Speaker:Whereas the Palestinians aren't in uniform Well, and I think The question is intent
Speaker:as well You know, I agree, I agree with you, Joe, like I mean, I agree with what
Speaker:you said the other week where you said, you know, the, the, the difference is the
Speaker:Jews weren't sitting in Warsaw ultimately wanting to exterminate the Nazis, whereas
Speaker:the Palestinians are sitting in Gaza wanting to exterminate the Israelis.
Speaker:Oh, but, but I mean, I, I think the Hamas...
Speaker:Wanted to inflict civilian casualties, I think the IDF are aiming to
Speaker:inflict civilian casualties.
Speaker:They're aiming at Hamas, and if a few innocents get caught in
Speaker:the crossfire, well, tough luck.
Speaker:So, yes, there are killings on both sides, but I think the Israelis are trying
Speaker:to minimize the civilian casualties.
Speaker:And I'm not saying that they're blameless because of that, but I think they're...
Speaker:Less guilty, if they're trying to avoid it.
Speaker:And how are they trying to minimise it?
Speaker:I think that they weren't deliberately targeting a hospital
Speaker:because it was a hospital.
Speaker:They were targeting a hospital because it was a command and control centre.
Speaker:Yeah, but they knew it was full of, full of the normal
Speaker:people you find in a hospital.
Speaker:So...
Speaker:Yeah, and I still think that's, that's evil, but it's not as evil as...
Speaker:That's a problem, but we'll just do it anyway.
Speaker:Yeah, but, but again, it's collateral damage.
Speaker:It's, it's not the primary intention.
Speaker:Yeah, I still, I still think, I still think it's shocking, but I think
Speaker:it's less shocking than going out and going, Oh, well, there's a hospital.
Speaker:Let's bomb it.
Speaker:You know, some of the characters in this Israeli government, maybe they are
Speaker:almost at the point where they're bombing hospitals because they just want to bomb
Speaker:hospitals and kill civilians, possibly.
Speaker:I don't know how much regret's going on as they're pressing the buttons.
Speaker:Maybe not so much, maybe they're just pressing the button and like, happy to
Speaker:kill whatever Palestinians they can get.
Speaker:How do we know that they're remorseful or regretful about it?
Speaker:It's not looking that way, it's a, what a mess.
Speaker:It is a hell of a mess.
Speaker:And you know, it's, it's like I said right from word go.
Speaker:A, a terrible mistake was made in 1947 mm-Hmm.
Speaker:It's so hard to tell the truth in these things.
Speaker:Remember the incident with the hospital that was bombed?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and so there's all this toing and froing about the Palestinians
Speaker:still claim that was an Israeli bomb.
Speaker:Was the Israeli sir.
Speaker:Was a Was aye Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:It's looking more and more likely that it was probably a
Speaker:Palestinian misfire of some sort.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:That's what the, that's what the Western intelligence organisations are saying.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Based on the kind of damage that there was, and the fact that the Palestinians
Speaker:haven't produced any bomb fragments, you know, they could have picked
Speaker:them up from anywhere I guess if they wanted to, but yeah, like, that went
Speaker:on for days where initially I was thinking oh it must have been the...
Speaker:the Israelis, because you hear these reports about the sound of the missile,
Speaker:the nature of the damage, blah, blah.
Speaker:And then these other reports come in saying, well actually the nature of the
Speaker:damage is this and blah, blah, blah, and it starts to swing the other way.
Speaker:And the simple thing of who even fired the missile, whose missile was it, is
Speaker:one of those things that will, really, really hard to know where the truth is.
Speaker:It could have been either side of it.
Speaker:Well, and there was that one recently.
Speaker:Is it Poland?
Speaker:Whichever country borders Ukraine.
Speaker:Poland, there was a missile that was fired out of it.
Speaker:There was a missile that landed there, and there was a lot of to
Speaker:ing and fro ing until finally they worked out it was a Ukrainian air
Speaker:defence missile that went off course.
Speaker:Yes, yeah, yep, but...
Speaker:You just can't trust anybody, even when a U.
Speaker:S.
Speaker:President comes out and says something.
Speaker:Especially when a U.
Speaker:S.
Speaker:President comes out and says something.
Speaker:You just can't trust any of these guys.
Speaker:Yeah, well, you know there's weapons of mass destruction in the raw.
Speaker:Yes, that's right.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Still looking for those.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well...
Speaker:Gentlemen that was a bit of a scrappy episode, dear listener, but it's just
Speaker:because of what's been happening this week with my life and other stuff.
Speaker:Have we talked about Mike Johnson?
Speaker:Yeah, we did, Speaker.
Speaker:You did?
Speaker:Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker:There was one other one, which was the Catholic Church
Speaker:fighting about Whether they're going to have to pay compensation
Speaker:for their employees misbehavior.
Speaker:And I saw a report saying that the Catholic insurer is predicting that
Speaker:they are going to go bust if this goes through and asking for the Catholic
Speaker:Church to provide funds to support them.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:aNd I think we ought to look very closely at any public goods, any public
Speaker:benefits that have been given to the Catholic Church with a view to taking
Speaker:them back and using them to compensate victims that aren't compensated properly.
Speaker:Well, presumably if there are judgments.
Speaker:And money's owed from the Catholic Church to victims, and the insurer falls over.
Speaker:That's just, the judgement's still there against the Catholic Church
Speaker:and they're still liable for it.
Speaker:It's their church, it's their problem if their insurer falls over.
Speaker:So ultimately, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker:Ultimately they'll still have to pay that there are multiple bodies and they're
Speaker:going to say that this body has no money.
Speaker:I mean, yes, when they're shifting money out to the gray funds.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So that the church had no money, so it couldn't be sued.
Speaker:Yeah, that's in the US, isn't it?
Speaker:No, I thought that was in Sydney.
Speaker:Oh, was it?
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I mean, I could be wrong, but.
Speaker:Yeah, haven't seen the nuts and bolts of that one.
Speaker:Alright, well, I think that's enough.
Speaker:Guys, might try and do something different next week.
Speaker:Try and do something a bit more uplifting.
Speaker:See what we can come up with.
Speaker:I don't think there's anything uplifting.
Speaker:The share market's in the toilet, you know, so...
Speaker:Mmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Send us some ideas.
Speaker:It's the lovely sunny day, there you go.
Speaker:Yeah, send us some ideas, dear listener, if you're ready for something
Speaker:uplifting and a bit different.
Speaker:I might just grab a book off the shelf and do some sort of a book thing, but
Speaker:Yes, we're done, done with the voice.
Speaker:The voice is off the, off the table for the next, Few weeks at least
Speaker:without a severe warning beforehand.
Speaker:So that's off the table.
Speaker:We're done with Gaza.
Speaker:Yeah, let's try and find something a bit more positive.
Speaker:A positive show next week.
Speaker:You know, like they talked about newspapers that only had good news.
Speaker:Let's try and do a good news episode next week.
Speaker:Or just a happy episode.
Speaker:A positive episode.
Speaker:That's what I'm going to try and do.
Speaker:Not a worry.
Speaker:We'll give it a shot.
Speaker:Wish me luck.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:We'll try that.
Speaker:Okay, dear listener Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker:Talk to you next time.
Speaker:Bye for now, and it's a good night for me And it's good night from him.
Speaker:Good night
