full
Episode 352 - Howard and Joyce are Shameless
In this episode we discuss:
- Crikey Defamation Threat
- Morrison Ministries Follow Up
- Porter – Cash
- John Howard
- Barnaby Joyce
- Will anything save the Governor General?
- Meanwhile Everyone Loves Albo
- Solar briefly overtakes coal in Australia as number one source of power nationally
- Want to watch the National Energy Market?
- Nuclear Update – It’s not reliable
- Anglican Schism
- Japanese Day Care Nappies
- Property Investors
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Transcript
We need to talk about ideas, good ones and bad ones.
Speaker:We need to learn stuff about the world.
Speaker:We need an honest, intelligent thought provoking and in obtaining review of
Speaker:what the hell happened on this planet in the last seven days, we need to sit
Speaker:back and listen to the iron fist and the
Speaker:velvet glove.
Speaker:Yes, dear listener.
Speaker:This is a podcast iron fist velvet glove episode 3 52.
Speaker:I'm Trevor over there on the screen beside me is Paul from Canberra.
Speaker:How are you going Paul
Speaker:greetings from N of all
Speaker:country.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:And Paul has joined at the last minute because Joe is
Speaker:our last minute cancellation.
Speaker:He's got a client who needed stuff done.
Speaker:And so he's working and I thought.
Speaker:Well, he wouldn't be busy tonight
Speaker:and could provide what place, you know, and
Speaker:could provide great input for us.
Speaker:So thanks Paul, for, for joining.
Speaker:So be gentle with Paul dear listener, because he hasn't
Speaker:had a chance to read the notes.
Speaker:And I sent him only three hours ago, probably about 35 pages of notes.
Speaker:So
Speaker:I did, did skim them
Speaker:so you got a rough idea of where we're rough idea of where we're heading.
Speaker:So, so I'm not even sure where we're heading half the time, this
Speaker:podcast, we get sent down little rabbit holes and things like that.
Speaker:So if you're in the chat room, say hello, and hello to Ross, who's already in the
Speaker:chat room and make plenty of comments.
Speaker:We'll try and get to him.
Speaker:I think it'll be a little bit better in recent times about reading the chat
Speaker:and trying to get you guys involved.
Speaker:So, I'll try and do it and I can, it's not always easy, but yeah.
Speaker:So what are we gonna talk about tonight?
Speaker:Well, at the end, I'm really hoping that we'll get to talking about this,
Speaker:this phenomena of cultural Marxism.
Speaker:So I've heard it, Bandi about a lot in different discussions and Hey, this
Speaker:is a podcast where we study society.
Speaker:And if we don't really have a grip on what cultural Marxism is, probably
Speaker:can't really call ourselves amateur students of society, really Paul.
Speaker:So I figured it's time to look at it and try and nut out just the basics
Speaker:of what it is, where it came from and what we should think when we hear it.
Speaker:So are you a chance, some sort of expert on cultural Marxism that will be hopeful
Speaker:Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker:No, but I feel like it's gonna be a really interesting, like, I, I
Speaker:did sort of catch that discussion.
Speaker:Like in the email very quickly.
Speaker:And I, one thing I suppose I extracted from that was that Marxism
Speaker:actually encompasses a lot of things and a lot of parts, and it's been
Speaker:sort of really criticized for the bits that capitalism really hates.
Speaker:And there's a lot more to it than just, you know, tearing down the
Speaker:factories or kind that sort of stuff.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think it's being used by figures on the right as just a general slander of
Speaker:a leftish idea that they don't like, and people are conditioned in our society
Speaker:to be very fearful of anything to do with marks, because that means Stalin.
Speaker:And that means Google a and so of course it must be
Speaker:bad.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I had a guy I'd proposed at one of the events for the Woodcraft Guild down
Speaker:a part of that, you know, because we occasionally sell stuff and it's nice
Speaker:for the Guild to have stuff to sell.
Speaker:And why don't we have like a day where we work together and make things
Speaker:individually that, that we can then give to the Guild to sell mm-hmm the
Speaker:guy in the charge of the sales seek says, oh, that sounds like communism.
Speaker:do you want us to raise money for the Guild or not?
Speaker:Man.
Speaker:And did you say, yeah.
Speaker:Alright, well, we'll get onto that at some point.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So anyway before in the chat room, Ross says, yes, Jordan Peterson's
Speaker:favorite reference for reasons and what Lee the wizard says,
Speaker:bye Trevor, enjoy the podcast.
Speaker:What's going on?
Speaker:What Lee you're sort of you're in and you're out.
Speaker:Aren't you saying.
Speaker:I don't understand that comment.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just Harray another Paul, so, yeah.
Speaker:And it seems, I hope you're staying what way?
Speaker:Staying with us ly stay with us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:But before we get to that, because, you know, we wanna fill up a good
Speaker:two hours here, so let's do a little bit of a preamble on a few things
Speaker:that are happening in Australia, a bit of current affair type stuff.
Speaker:So rattle through a few things.
Speaker:First of all, happy birthday, Shay.
Speaker:If you're out there listening Shay's birthday.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Happy birthday.
Speaker:Secondly, as you know, dear listener, I'm a big fan of the John UE blog hall.
Speaker:Do you read the John UE blog?
Speaker:No,
Speaker:not as often as I would like you're relying
Speaker:on me to curator it for you.
Speaker:Are you?
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:occasionally I check in, but I've got so many other, like, you know,
Speaker:everything from independent Australia and crikey and guardian, you know?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's fine.
Speaker:You can remind, I'm glad that's keeping up, keeping me up to date.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I think it's great block now.
Speaker:There's I just stumbled across an interview on, on YouTube where
Speaker:friendly Jordy interviewed him.
Speaker:And I think it's an old interview from a couple years ago, but
Speaker:anyway, I hadn't seen it before and it was very interesting.
Speaker:And he spoke about his time when he was basically Goff's right hand man sort of
Speaker:head of the prime ministers department.
Speaker:He sort of worked with Goff when he was in opposition and then
Speaker:worked when he was in government.
Speaker:And then he was also a an editor and higher editor of the
Speaker:Australian or an extremely high up in a number of Murdoch papers.
Speaker:And he also had an overseas posting.
Speaker:I think it was Japan might have been China, but as an ambassador,
Speaker:like his experience is amazing.
Speaker:And so he just had interesting things to say.
Speaker:So if you're interested in those topics and what Rubik Murdoch was
Speaker:like, and the control that he, that he had over his staff and how people.
Speaker:Eventually figured out they didn't have to be told they just knew what
Speaker:Rupert wanted and they just did it the way Rupert would want it.
Speaker:So Google that on YouTube, John men and friendly Jordy's, there'll be a link in
Speaker:the show notes, highly recommended that.
Speaker:And the other thing that I read a lot is crikey.
Speaker:And if you are a reader of it as well, Paul, you would know that
Speaker:they are being threatened with defamation by Lockland Murdoch.
Speaker:Mm
Speaker:yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I really wanted to point bring that to everyone's attention because I think
Speaker:it really shows firstly like you as a lawyer or an next lawyer, Trevor would
Speaker:have some feeling for how legal arguments that are advanced and people put forward,
Speaker:you know, legal letters saying we will, you know, we will serve if these
Speaker:conditions aren't met kind of thing.
Speaker:Mm-hmm and you read the lawyers' letters from Murdoch and they're almost,
Speaker:it's hard to believe that they exist in the same reality as the rest of us.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They're just setting things up for potential actions.
Speaker:So no doubt the relevant law requires you to go through a process and
Speaker:to state what you want and state in quite specific detail, your
Speaker:allegation and the remedy you want.
Speaker:And then if they don't do it, you're off to court.
Speaker:So they just sort of, if it sounded that way, it's probably because it's
Speaker:being framed to match a legislative requirement in terms of detail.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:Any event it's to do with the, what was your
Speaker:sense of it then?
Speaker:Well, I didn't read those in detail.
Speaker:I just skim them because crikey has basically published the legal
Speaker:letters that have been toing and F throwing between their lawyers and,
Speaker:and Lockland Murdoch lawyers and it's to do with the capital ride January
Speaker:6th and crikey wrote something which more or less said something along
Speaker:the lines that the Murdochs were like co-conspirators with Donald Trump
Speaker:and it Murdoch is his unnamed co-conspirator I think was
Speaker:the last line in the article.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And, and somehow Mer Lockland Murdoch assumed that that was him
Speaker:as part of the Murdoch.
Speaker:Family's saying he's defined and it's all gotta be read in context cetera.
Speaker:But the main thing I think I read from Ronnie's salt in Twitter made the
Speaker:point that if this goes to court, then crikey would be able to say, show us
Speaker:all documents and all communication you have relating to the January 6th Rio in
Speaker:particular, what communication you had with Donald Trump as part of discovery.
Speaker:And there's no way the Murdoch family is going to want to
Speaker:produce any of that communication.
Speaker:So she was suggesting that there's crikey is kind of aware that there's
Speaker:no way Lockland Murdoch will pursue this because there's no way he would
Speaker:risk being forced under discovery, you know, legal case of having to
Speaker:produce all of those documents, cuz it could obviously be quite embarrassing
Speaker:depending what various members of the Fox and Murdoch empire said.
Speaker:So I think she might be right.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:I think he'd probably shy away from it because he wouldn't, you know, we've seen
Speaker:a few cases, Paul, where people have sued for defamation and it's backfired on them,
Speaker:hopefully Christian Porter and Robert Smith and a few others where they kicked
Speaker:things off and probably wish they didn't
Speaker:well also that cause I, I happen to be listening to a really fantastic big
Speaker:ideas podcast an interview with Anita, if I remember rightly an Aboriginal
Speaker:author and she was one of the people that took Andrew bolt to court and
Speaker:won mm-hmm over his defamation.
Speaker:And the, the, so the thing that sort of like, I get this real sort of resonance
Speaker:there in that both bolt and I feel in Locklin Murdoch's lawyers letter
Speaker:make these incredibly like incredibly exaggerated claims and basically kind
Speaker:of know that you there it's on the other side to then prove them wrong by
Speaker:being reasonable mm-hmm and it really can't remember who said it, but it's
Speaker:like, it's just the bullshit factor of, you know, it's, it's an order of
Speaker:magnitude, harder to disprove bullshit than it is to say it mm-hmm and so.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:when it, there is a bit of haggling in this, it's okay.
Speaker:We're gonna be, we're threatening you.
Speaker:So we'll, we will reach for every possible thing we can find and
Speaker:exaggerate it and put it out there and then wait for your response.
Speaker:So, you know, that is, yeah.
Speaker:Part of, part of the thing is, well, you may as well reach for the stars and
Speaker:then , and then settle for something less.
Speaker:So it looks like you're
Speaker:settling well.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, but vice versa, I think, you know, like if I, I think you're probably
Speaker:right, that it is going to be very difficult for it's gonna be very
Speaker:difficult for Murdoch to prove that his specific, those specific claims that
Speaker:his lawyer made all 10 of them were
Speaker:true, but you know what, there's no penalty for having
Speaker:three of them struck out.
Speaker:So for example, if you think that if,
Speaker:as long as they get like it's a shotgun kind of
Speaker:approach, correct?
Speaker:There's no, there's no.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:No penalty for listing 10 things of which three of them are a little bit dubious.
Speaker:It's like, I might as well throw 'em in.
Speaker:If I get struck down the other seven, still stand, it's not like you you
Speaker:lose anything by having those three.
Speaker:So you might as well throw it in there.
Speaker:That's the stage that they're at.
Speaker:So that's quite normal, I think.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I have to admit, I feel like it's even, it it's even hard for them to prove one
Speaker:of those conclusively in that, you know, because there was that recent law case
Speaker:finally west Australian court decided in the defamation suit between premier
Speaker:of wa oh, yes.
Speaker:Is goon and.
Speaker:Yeah, mark MC and CLS Palmer parer
Speaker:and where he awarded mark MCOW $20,000 in Clive power of Palmer $5,000.
Speaker:And basically said that their, yes, technically what they, what both of them
Speaker:said could be deemed defamatory, but the award was minimal because basically Clive
Speaker:Palmer had already trashed his reputation.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And mark McGowan's, hadn't actually suffered mm-hmm as a result because
Speaker:he won an increased majority.
Speaker:So, very hard to see either of those people making the claim that
Speaker:they couldn't show a lot of damage cuz they're already yeah, yeah.
Speaker:That
Speaker:like it, it's hard to believe that Locklin Murdoch has been so trashed in
Speaker:reputation by the article on crikey, by that one sentence, as opposed to
Speaker:any of the other coverage that he's done, that, that, that he's suffered.
Speaker:And he still seems to be perfectly happy in, you know, the top job is not
Speaker:being hounded out of that or anything is not hasn't lost anything by it.
Speaker:It will be very hard to show that in fact, Locklin Murdoch has suffered
Speaker:any material loss by that coverage.
Speaker:And that seems to me to be the, the point, not that the things that they said were,
Speaker:In theory not nice to their reputation, but the practical
Speaker:effect was water off Duck's back.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I have to say actually do anything
Speaker:and therefore it didn't, it wasn't actually defamatory probably.
Speaker:And
Speaker:if you, well, it was defamatory, but it was worth, it was just so negligible.
Speaker:So, look, it might be one of those cases where we have to say, maybe America's
Speaker:actually got better laws because they tend to have laws where I think if you
Speaker:are a public identity, then it's almost anything's possible for public identities.
Speaker:So public figures, I think that's a sort of a difference in the us law, but
Speaker:certainly ours is due for a bit of an overhaul because rich and powerful people
Speaker:are using it as a means of, of controlling media that might be against them.
Speaker:So, yeah, I think it's, yeah, something we can look at the, the
Speaker:landscape of media and personality and defamation in the, and damages in
Speaker:the us is I feel like it's a, it's a very different, it's almost an alien
Speaker:landscape compared to what we sort of see
Speaker:there, but they don't have nearly the sort of defamation cases we have.
Speaker:This doesn't happen.
Speaker:No, but there are and I haven't done any legal reading up on legal cases,
Speaker:but there are still plenty of like the, the free speech argument gets used in
Speaker:a very one sided direction in the us from the powerful to the less powerful.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But I think in defamation law, it might be a case where it's the
Speaker:free speech aspect is working to.
Speaker:Downplay the ability of the rich to silence the poor.
Speaker:So I think it might be a case where it's actually working to
Speaker:some extent, so better than now.
Speaker:It's one of the rare occasions
Speaker:we've certainly had as, as you know, we've seen with you know, Dutton winning
Speaker:the lawsuit against the guy, I think Queensland who defamed him on Twitter and,
Speaker:you know, a bunch of things like that, you know, people just suing for defamation in
Speaker:Australia because it means that I'm going to drag you through the court and shake
Speaker:you out for lo you know, for lawyers fees.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:So
Speaker:fortunately we haven't had a defamation action on this podcast
Speaker:so far our fingers crossed well, I'll try to keep it that way.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So, just following up from the Morrison fiasco with his ministries, and I
Speaker:think since we last talked, he, yeah, he had his press conference and, you
Speaker:know, the overwhelming thought I had at the end of that was, thank God.
Speaker:We don't have to listen to this guy anymore.
Speaker:It's it's so good.
Speaker:Not to have to listen to him the way we used to have to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But a few characters came out and provided comments and one of them was John Howard.
Speaker:So I'm gonna play a John Howard clip for everybody.
Speaker:Now see how we go.
Speaker:I break my off.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think most people and allow me an expression of this opinion.
Speaker:Most people are going to say, well, that deepest thing, but let's get
Speaker:on with the present and the future.
Speaker:I think there's a number of people in your own party who are calling on Scott
Speaker:Morrison to resign from parliament.
Speaker:Should you at least do that?
Speaker:No, I don't think you should do that apart from anything else.
Speaker:It's not in the interest of the liberal party to have a byelection at the moment
Speaker:in a very safe seat, particularly.
Speaker:As in the state of new south Wales, we will face a state election
Speaker:in the early part of next year.
Speaker:So if anybody cares about my party, the liberal party, then the last thing I'll
Speaker:do is be requesting unwanted by elections.
Speaker:That sounds like an Anan answer based in expediency.
Speaker:When this is a matter of principle, you say it's a matter of principle.
Speaker:And so you don't think it is no, I don't think it's something that is so
Speaker:wreaking with principle as to
Speaker:require an unwanted expensive unnecessary byelection.
Speaker:So he's first and best reason why Morrison shouldn't resign was because it wouldn't
Speaker:be in the interest of the liberal party.
Speaker:What happened to the interest of Australia, Paul?
Speaker:Well, no, no.
Speaker:What's puzzling me here is if it's a safe, liberal seat, why is it a bad
Speaker:thing to have a byelection when you could just get another liberal candidate?
Speaker:If it's
Speaker:safe, I guess it's saying it's not,
Speaker:that's true.
Speaker:And it's not safe.
Speaker:Good point.
Speaker:He knows it's not safe.
Speaker:There's no way that with, with this on top of everything that Morrison,
Speaker:like, all it's gonna take is a teal candidate to get up in, in cook and
Speaker:votes will flood in, I would say.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, but I just it's the shamelessness that you could say, well, of course
Speaker:he shouldn't resign that wouldn't be in the interest of the liberal party.
Speaker:It just, it just boggles my mind, the shamelessness of these things.
Speaker:So yeah.
Speaker:I'm just gonna grab another one here when we are talking about shamelessness
Speaker:and this one's Barnaby Joyce, and, and again, see if bucket, see if you can see a
Speaker:theme happening here in the reasons here.
Speaker:I initially assumed and to be
Speaker:quite Frank, if I gone into bat,
Speaker:I had negotiated an extra minister and I thought, well,
Speaker:I've asked myself three questions.
Speaker:Is it legal?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It is legal under section 64.
Speaker:He can do that.
Speaker:Is there anything I can do to change back?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Has he got the capacity to renegotiate my extra minister that I just dealt that I
Speaker:just dealt into the national party hand?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You could just say, yeah, I'll fix
Speaker:your problem, mate.
Speaker:I'll just take the ministry back off you.
Speaker:It's gone now.
Speaker:Problem fixed for you.
Speaker:Problem fixed for me bad
Speaker:outcome for the national party.
Speaker:So he starts off well, it's legal.
Speaker:And then as to whether he should do anything about it.
Speaker:Well, no, because it's not in the interest of the national party.
Speaker:Don't worry about the interest of Australia, the parliament.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just good form again, I'm just flabbergasted by the
Speaker:shamelessness of these guys.
Speaker:Continue.
Speaker:I dunno.
Speaker:I shouldn't be, I shouldn't be so surprised.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm not surprised.
Speaker:They think that way.
Speaker:I'm just surprised that they can say it.
Speaker:So open, openly.
Speaker:I wonder here, if, what their, that if, if they have got used to the, you know,
Speaker:the right wing media, cheer squad and the you know, the sort of left bashing
Speaker:and all that sort of stuff, they're so used to that, that they, they can now say
Speaker:the inside thoughts, you know, that they used to have to find a nice way to wrap.
Speaker:They, you know, they just don't actually feel like, being
Speaker:accountable because, you know,
Speaker:He's listening anyway.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I don't matter.
Speaker:Accountable.
Speaker:All I have to do is get some, you know, have some beat up about, you
Speaker:know, boats arriving in, you know, Australia on the day of the election
Speaker:and the people will flock to us.
Speaker:Mm yeah.
Speaker:You, yeah.
Speaker:And, and I would say the hard, the hard lesson they're unfortunately
Speaker:not learning is that they, they are now really struggling.
Speaker:Like there are so many people, I it's just the whole thing.
Speaker:This whole topic has been a continued amusement over several
Speaker:days at work from people I would've expected to be liberal voters.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:But they're pissed off.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Because they can see that if you've got a minister, who's actually, you know,
Speaker:especially in the case of something like home affairs whose powers to deport and
Speaker:allow and authorize and not authorize and keep secret a vast, you know, they,
Speaker:they know very well how, how much, you know, of the, the rest of the workings
Speaker:of that government department rely on knowing what the minister wants to do
Speaker:and, you know, taking action on it.
Speaker:And if you then got, oh, wait, someone else is minister, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They they've been, they've been wild about it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think also, you know, the Murdoch and Castello press has
Speaker:not been supportive of Morrison.
Speaker:They've pretty much Being negative about it, you know, they're throwing in
Speaker:bits like common, Albanese stop talking about it and get on with the job.
Speaker:But to a large extent, they're, they're also negative about it because
Speaker:Morrison can't give them any favors.
Speaker:They're not needing the, the scoop to be handed to them.
Speaker:He can't offer them anything anymore, so they don't need to yeah.
Speaker:Be nice to him anymore.
Speaker:Do him any favors?
Speaker:So I think he's quite friendless now as he should be.
Speaker:you know?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:In terms of the press, in terms of his own party, possibly his own family who knows,
Speaker:but he's quite friendless as he should be.
Speaker:It seems so.
Speaker:Yeah, but I, I was disappointed as well.
Speaker:On Monday I found out that Scott Morrison had been sworn in to do my job.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:that, that like the worst part about it was that he didn't actually do anything.
Speaker:He just like, you know, spa himself in.
Speaker:And, but like, he didn't actually contradict any of the things that
Speaker:I was, you know, that the decisions I made or the code that I wrote.
Speaker:So, you know, like he must have approved about that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:It's, it's a crazy situation.
Speaker:So, so we'll see how that pans out.
Speaker:It's we'll see how that pans out, but meanwhile, elbow is he's going.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:And did you see the scene with him at the Enmore theater in Sydney?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Oh, Hmm.
Speaker:Well, you're about to see it.
Speaker:So he's in the theater people spotting there and, and this is almost a bit of a
Speaker:Bob Hawk type of moment happening here.
Speaker:He basically skulls a beer for the crowd type of thing.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Because the crowd was hanging him on and then they giving him a big cheer.
Speaker:Like it was a pretty big positive response.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Big Hawk vibe there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, it's a theater, it's a lefty crowd for sure.
Speaker:But and of course, you know, had Morrison in his heyday showed up there.
Speaker:There was no way he would get that sort of sport, but it was still quite
Speaker:an impressive just show of genuine support from a theater crowd, I think.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I don't know if I think that theater goers are all sort of lefties otherwise,
Speaker:other than just, you know, if they're not,
Speaker:they should be
Speaker:like, we all think they all should be well, well,
Speaker:given, given the way that the coalition abandoned the arts sure, sure.
Speaker:For nine years completely abandoned them.
Speaker:And, and that's not like just a new policy, the arts funding for all
Speaker:of, you know, from the coalition has always been dropped, has, you
Speaker:know, is been considered unnecessary.
Speaker:So, and you know why.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I see it as, I don't have any, like, I don't know, but I guess I see it
Speaker:as the arts also criticizes and.
Speaker:The one thing I think that characterizes conservative conservatives is that they
Speaker:do not like to be criticized mm-hmm
Speaker:my theory is it's like universities, they don't think
Speaker:there's any votes for them there.
Speaker:So why waste money on that sector?
Speaker:Keep it for the people you'll vote for you.
Speaker:I think that's yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I also agree with that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:so, yeah,
Speaker:I, I, I also, I suppose I also think that there, you know, there's an element
Speaker:of a sort of culture wars in there are, you know, the, those elites, you know,
Speaker:going to their opera and their, their dance performances and, you know, yes.
Speaker:Like we should be concerned about the ordinary Australians who have
Speaker:a beer and, you know, consider watching Katherine Kim to be the
Speaker:height of entertainment, you know?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:This is the problem.
Speaker:They almost thought of the ordinary Australian as, as a trady, as a blue
Speaker:collar, it was never a, a nurse or a school teacher or a a sound person
Speaker:at a stage in the Enmore theater or a, an actor or somebody like that.
Speaker:I never considered working Australians.
Speaker:So they very different view of that.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:The other little thing that I, the vibe that I kind of pick up out of that is
Speaker:that it really reminds me of I think one of the things thatI said when he opened
Speaker:parliament was, which was that, you know, he want, he wants to have a parliament
Speaker:that the Australian people respect.
Speaker:And when.
Speaker:We see the Australian parliament being respectable, getting stuff, done,
Speaker:solving these problems, working together.
Speaker:We can go.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I can respect that guy.
Speaker:He's he's he's doing the right
Speaker:thing.
Speaker:It's a symbiotic relationship between the people on the parliament.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, mm mm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Now contrast this, so everybody's, well, you hadn't seen it, but the general
Speaker:response to that is well good on your for being at the theater and having a beer and
Speaker:enjoying yourself and contrast that Paul, did you see the funeral over the finish
Speaker:prime minister, a female prime minister,
Speaker:all reports of it, but I didn't pick up what she'd actually done wrong.
Speaker:Well, had she a drug test
Speaker:or something like that?
Speaker:She had the toity to dance in front of a camera with some friends
Speaker:at a private party and was just gyrating around as people do to
Speaker:the camera and having a good time.
Speaker:And, and this just shocked too many people that a prime minister could be.
Speaker:She's quite youthful and it shocked
Speaker:too many fins fin fi I, I, I think did it from, well, I think from talking to a
Speaker:finished friend of mine and following the general line of finished jokes the thing
Speaker:that they might have been most outraged about was that they're actually more than
Speaker:one person in the same room there, right?
Speaker:Fins are not communicative and they're not like the trophies
Speaker:that they, they are grumpy.
Speaker:Herberts you, you, you are, you are 30 meters away and that's close enough.
Speaker:Thank you very much.
Speaker:but it's the happiest country in the world, Paul.
Speaker:It is, it is
Speaker:every time that survey came out just a week or two ago, again, they're
Speaker:always at the top by other happiest.
Speaker:And I don't think there's a lot of general, like, I think it's a, you
Speaker:know, it's playing up a stereotype yeah.
Speaker:In the way that all Australians drink too much beer kind of thing.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:It's
Speaker:anyway, I think there was, there was a bit of a thing where they said they
Speaker:could vaguely hear in the background, a reference to flower, and there was
Speaker:an allegation that flower was code for some sort of powdery illegal drug.
Speaker:And she then went and had a drug test to prove that she
Speaker:had not taken an illegal drug.
Speaker:Just to say to people here you go done a blood test, but that's what it reached.
Speaker:That's the stage.
Speaker:It got to that.
Speaker:So just a contrasting situation where just relatively young woman, just having
Speaker:a good time as you're allowed to, you're not expected to work all the time as a PM.
Speaker:And
Speaker:in a different response prime minister, like the finished people are very
Speaker:progressive and they have neglected a young, progressive prime minister.
Speaker:So
Speaker:yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:So, so anyway, dance on, I say, yeah.
Speaker:So contrast that I can remember AOC was criticized for a, a a video.
Speaker:She did dancing on a rooftop at some point, and she just got these
Speaker:hard line conservatives going.
Speaker:She's just not a serious person cuz she's dancing.
Speaker:And but so
Speaker:how much of that do you think is just the regular outrage machine?
Speaker:You know of?
Speaker:It's just like it it's the attack that I see on.
Speaker:Anyone that they don't like, just find anything that we can even
Speaker:make up that will be objection about objectionable, about them.
Speaker:They're they're not serious.
Speaker:They're too serious.
Speaker:They're they're not well educated.
Speaker:They're too well educated, anything just as long as we can criticize
Speaker:it and, and, you know, cross our arms and look all upright.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And
Speaker:you can't, please, some people, people have a stick up their bum,
Speaker:but you know, there's definitely some people you just can't please.
Speaker:Anyway, I thought it was an interesting contrast between interesting contrast.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Australian PM and the finished PM.
Speaker:So it can swap notes when they're at some sort of conference in the future.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:mm-hmm maybe we could get her and Jain Arden, and there
Speaker:may to have like a dance off.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There may.
Speaker:So
Speaker:she didn't, she do that stage.
Speaker:So like she was walking under the stage and yeah.
Speaker:A little, they had some sort of number and she was dancing around a bit.
Speaker:It's like, yeah.
Speaker:So, anyway.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Now next topic moving away from politicians is so governor generals I
Speaker:was gonna skip the governor general.
Speaker:We'll go back to the governor general.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Look, it's tricky.
Speaker:One, the governor general, I haven't quite got my head around.
Speaker:It sort of gave my view the other day.
Speaker:It seems like with the early appointments, the governor general wasn't involved
Speaker:at all, and it seemed that with when Christian Porter was there, that they
Speaker:did it as an administrative thing without even the governor general and the later
Speaker:appointments involve the governor general.
Speaker:And he's saying, well, it's not his job to monitor the Gazette and make
Speaker:sure things are printed and he's just there to do what he's told.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:He obviously knew though that it was being kept secret because any governor general
Speaker:just should be watching the general news and should have been aware of that.
Speaker:This was not being talked about.
Speaker:I mean, it just it doesn't really fly with me that the governor general
Speaker:had hadn't even thought about it not being publicized, so, Hmm.
Speaker:You've got any thoughts.
Speaker:It is also very hard because like the governor general doesn't write his diary.
Speaker:This is the job for secretaries and you know, people and yes, it
Speaker:becomes part of the, the record.
Speaker:The fact that it didn't make it onto the record really makes me feel that there's
Speaker:actually some like, so a, you know, just to pick an arbitrary example, Scott
Speaker:Morrison has deliberately gone to them saying, you cannot tell anyone about this.
Speaker:You can't publish it on the Gazette, keep it quiet.
Speaker:Looks like, yeah, given that all sorts of things, like, you know, he hands out first
Speaker:prize to a dog at a dog show or something.
Speaker:And that appears in the Gazette.
Speaker:Like there's a lot of detailed stuff in there.
Speaker:That's quite in a, and the fact that a major thing like appointing
Speaker:a minister doesn't make it.
Speaker:It all seems like something intentional has happened, but we won't know
Speaker:until further things come out, which they probably will at some stage.
Speaker:It also makes me, I think it, it makes a good argument then to say, well, if
Speaker:the governor General's sole function.
Speaker:Is just to go out and have, you know, give medals to dogs and, you know, have open
Speaker:public buildings and things like that.
Speaker:It is not actually to question the mess, the mechanisms and the
Speaker:processes of government when they happen, then we don't actually need
Speaker:a governor general with that power.
Speaker:You know, we could just elect the, you know, the building opener in chief
Speaker:and, you know, that's their function.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, I think I heard an argument that governments have been
Speaker:keen to a point X military people.
Speaker:And one of the reasons is that military people are, yes, men essentially.
Speaker:Like they just do what they're told.
Speaker:That's a culture that when somebody advance this argument is superior
Speaker:to you in rank or whatever, you just do what you're told and that's it.
Speaker:Whereas if you were appointing, you know, X, high court judges or
Speaker:people like that, they would be more likely to say, hang on a minute.
Speaker:What's going on here?
Speaker:What?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:so, it's a, it's a good argument as to why the military should not
Speaker:be involved in these appointments.
Speaker:I, I'm not a good cultural fit mixed
Speaker:on that in that I actually don't.
Speaker:I don't see.
Speaker:I don't actually, I feel any, if anyone's selecting the.
Speaker:Governor general because we better choose one that make, you know, that takes
Speaker:orders so that when we have to appoint myself as a secret minister, it for
Speaker:everything they'll do what they say is a pretty long draw to bow a bow to draw.
Speaker:No, it's not because it would be let's point a yes man.
Speaker:In case we need a yes man, for someone unforeseen event where we're like,
Speaker:they may not have had specifically in mind this thing, but it would
Speaker:be, are you gonna be compliant?
Speaker:Are you gonna go and do the things I say?
Speaker:And are you gonna shut up if I tell you to shut up, you know, in
Speaker:the back of maybe not overt, just
Speaker:maybe like, I wonder how much the liberal party feels, the fear of
Speaker:the governor general in the same way that the labor party remembers occur.
Speaker:I think they all remember it and they all think, I don't want
Speaker:one of those, a contrarian Gigi.
Speaker:Yeah, but I, my hypothesis here is that the liberal party were well
Speaker:served by a governor general that, that I don't know who chose Kerr.
Speaker:But they were well suited by a governor general who was part of the establishment.
Speaker:And I, I wonder if the liberal party feels the same fear that a rogue
Speaker:governor general could, you know, dissolve parliament If, you know, a
Speaker:couple of liberal party mates went over and have a, had a beer with
Speaker:him in the Saturday afternoon, they,
Speaker:they would have that fear if they appointed one from academia.
Speaker:So that's why they appoint one from the military, you know, so, and you
Speaker:know, if there was a leftover labor appointee as governor general, who
Speaker:was of that ilk, then they would be worried if they took power.
Speaker:So I think both sides of politics would, would look at the governor general
Speaker:and think what sort of we got here.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Anyway, in the chat room jungle juice, jingle jungle says being
Speaker:ex-military I can attest your statement being somewhat correct.
Speaker:That's good to know.
Speaker:Jungle juice.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Jungle juice jungle.
Speaker:Give me some more of that jungle juice.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And just previously in the chat room, some of the people had mentioned about
Speaker:friendly Jordy's and just questioning whether they like the guy or not.
Speaker:I mean, he is, he is not to everyone's taste, I get it, but he's at least
Speaker:appealing to a younger demographic and, you know, it's, you've gotta
Speaker:have all different types appealing to all different demographics.
Speaker:And I think he does what he's doing quite well, even though I
Speaker:wouldn't necessarily sit down and watch him all the time myself.
Speaker:So
Speaker:yeah, I, I have found, I, I like the points that he's trying to
Speaker:make most of the time, but I've I'm, I can't really get, you know,
Speaker:I can't agree on his delivery.
Speaker:But I do really like there's YouTube channel called swollen pickles and
Speaker:another one called Knight in shining Lama.
Speaker:And both of those are very good.
Speaker:Pickles is more kind of making funny.
Speaker:Funny videos of mashups of I think he did a mashup of
Speaker:ex premiere of new south Wales.
Speaker:GLADiS Barlin Gladys saying all the times that she said
Speaker:we're not going into lockdown.
Speaker:Oh, we're going into lockdown.
Speaker:Oh, we're not going into lockdown.
Speaker:There's no such thing as a lockdown in new south Wales.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've seen that lockdown.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So yeah, I think you've just gotta have all different types.
Speaker:So it's a bit like in the secular community, I think we've got various
Speaker:different types running around, so yeah, just, you don't need all to be the same.
Speaker:Now I just wanna move on to energy pool.
Speaker:And so this is from ABC for about half an hour on Friday now.
Speaker:I'm not sure if that was last Friday or the Friday before the national
Speaker:energy market caught a glimpse of what a renewables powered future might look
Speaker:like and solar energy eclipsed, coal as the lead source of power across
Speaker:the energy market, which includes all states except wa and territory.
Speaker:It's not the first time it happened, but it's the first time it's happened
Speaker:under relatively normal conditions.
Speaker:So there was no shortage of coal-fired power and it wasn't
Speaker:the sont time of the year.
Speaker:So it was a significant sort of business as usual kind of
Speaker:day and solar de throne coal.
Speaker:So that was good.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like a lot of things, it, you know, these, you know, gradual, these gradual
Speaker:incremental changes, help people get used to the idea that actually, you know,
Speaker:Solar thing isn't that bad after all.
Speaker:So when your electric bike is finished yeah.
Speaker:Is it gonna be powered from a solar rooftop system you have?
Speaker:Is that what?
Speaker:So I
Speaker:do have solar panels on the roof.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:do they get sunny in Canberra?
Speaker:Sufficient.
Speaker:Occasionally, not this, not this winter.
Speaker:I can tell you.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But so this is where I don't want to have people hate me too much, but so
Speaker:Canberra in 2007, introduce in order to sort of bootstrap, the solar industry
Speaker:here introduced a gross feed in tariff.
Speaker:And so, I, and we were lucky enough for a variety of complicated reasons,
Speaker:cuz I was out of work for six months.
Speaker:We were lucky enough to be able to afford to afford and to fit into the program.
Speaker:And we get 52 50.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:52 cents a kilowatt.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Kilowatt hour for every kilowatt hour we generate.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Whether or not the house is using any power, any of that power or not
Speaker:whether you are using it or not.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Hang on a minute.
Speaker:So you could be generating it and using it and you'll be paid.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:What that I, I
Speaker:told you you'd hate me.
Speaker:you're kidding.
Speaker:How long's that
Speaker:gonna go for 25 years.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:That's amazing.
Speaker:And believe me, it's it bootstrapped the the, the solar industry in camber.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:There's, there's a friend of mine very famous or famous in the open source world.
Speaker:guy called Andrew Riall.
Speaker:He, he happened to have a house which was alar very, a very
Speaker:large area of north facing roof.
Speaker:And he worked out that he could install 30 kilowatts of solar panels on his house.
Speaker:He drew down for his superannuation because being the guy, he is he'd
Speaker:done the math worked out that it would pay a better rate of return
Speaker:than his superannuation was.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So that is part of his superannuation.
Speaker:And if you know where to look in Canberra, you can see the bright splash
Speaker:on the satellite picture, where his house has reflected the sun back to
Speaker:the satellite and is completely wipes out that section of the, the street,
Speaker:my, my mate Noel, he was the same.
Speaker:He figured it out and loaded up his house in Brisbane and very, very early
Speaker:adopter, one of the very earliest.
Speaker:And he was driving in his car and he got a phone call from from the electricity
Speaker:company that he was dealing with.
Speaker:And they said look just calling to talk to you about your bill.
Speaker:You owe us 5,000, $200 and just wanna know what arrangements
Speaker:you're gonna make to pay it.
Speaker:And he said, right, are you looking at the screen right now?
Speaker:And the guy said, yeah.
Speaker:And he said, you see where it's got 5,000, $200.
Speaker:Is there a kind of like a minus sign in front of the dollar sign?
Speaker:And the guy goes, yeah, yeah, there is, that's weird.
Speaker:And I'll said, yeah, that's because you own me.
Speaker:$5,600.
Speaker:and I'd like to know what arrangements you are gonna make to pay me.
Speaker:They'd never written a check before they had no, like this
Speaker:was foreign territory for him
Speaker:probably didn't even have the mechanism to do it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So he had figured out he could buy old cottages in rural areas
Speaker:in Northern new south Wales and he wouldn't have to rent them out.
Speaker:He could just wax solar on them and that would pay for these
Speaker:properties and pay them off.
Speaker:And he was actually getting contracts organized when the
Speaker:new south Wales scheme changed.
Speaker:And so he didn't proceed with it, but he had done that same
Speaker:math and had figured out.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So there we go.
Speaker:That's that's my two solar stories.
Speaker:So yeah.
Speaker:So, okay, so you are gonna be feeding electricity into your electric motorbike
Speaker:and you're actually gonna be paid for the electricity that goes into it
Speaker:for the, for the, for the privilege.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I mean, you know, the disadvantage is that we still, we still pay, you know,
Speaker:I think what, what's our top, right?
Speaker:20 something, 21, 20 2 cents a kilowatt at peak times.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, when I had the, the mark one I would have it, have that on a timer.
Speaker:So it would charge up on the sort of off peak cycle.
Speaker:Not that we actually, yeah, not that it was actually like, paid like that.
Speaker:But just sort of just shift the power.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:But yeah, the, the, the solar thing I also think is a, also a statement of.
Speaker:A lot.
Speaker:It shows that a lot of the bigger solar projects are now starting to come,
Speaker:come in and get traction where before, especially with the previous government,
Speaker:it was previous federal government.
Speaker:It was very difficult for those companies to get sort of basically to be allowed
Speaker:to generate mm-hmm because the, you know, if, if a new project came in,
Speaker:they would be curtailed in favor of the existing generator, which was always cold.
Speaker:So, and you know, that's just like, that's the opposite of what
Speaker:should, what we should be doing.
Speaker:We should be turning off coaled power stations and keeping
Speaker:solar power, but, you know,
Speaker:actually I've got one other electricity, sand of power killing birds, Chris, I've
Speaker:got one other what you're talking about.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I've got one of the electricity anecdote for you.
Speaker:So my son worked for a company that was involved in supplying electricity
Speaker:into the market, and they had entered into some forward contracts to supply
Speaker:at a certain price over the next year, two years and three years.
Speaker:Uh mm-hmm , which would satisfy their finances, that their finances
Speaker:knew they had this money coming in.
Speaker:So, so it wasn't their entire production that they were committing,
Speaker:but just to sort of hedge, I guess.
Speaker:And so they had put it in at a certain price.
Speaker:Now I can't remember the exact figures, but let's just assume it was say
Speaker:$80 a what or whatever it's called.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so that was their commitment to supply that to the energy
Speaker:market over the next three years.
Speaker:Now, when the price goes up for electricity There's two things.
Speaker:First of all, you think to yourself, damn wish I hadn't agreed to sell it at 80
Speaker:because now I could sell it at 200, if I wasn't committed to this cheap price.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:But the other thing is say the price has moved to 200.
Speaker:Then the, the national energy market regulator says, you know what?
Speaker:There's a risk that you might go bust.
Speaker:And we've got this great deal with you where you are
Speaker:committed to supplying it at 80.
Speaker:Whereas a moment we have to buy it at 200 from everyone else.
Speaker:So you have to pay us a bond of 120 so that we know that we are not going to
Speaker:miss out on a deal with you going bust.
Speaker:And that's part of the deal that's done when people hedge with the national
Speaker:electricity market, that if you agree at a price and the price increases, they say to
Speaker:you cough up some money, because in case you go bust and we have to buy it from
Speaker:somebody else, we're not gonna be happy.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:I think I heard something about that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so it's this extraordinary situation where the price is going up
Speaker:and these people have to scramble and find money to give to the national
Speaker:energy market to cover the difference.
Speaker:They'll eventually get it back.
Speaker:But but yeah, they have to come up with this, in this, in
Speaker:the, as a cash flow problem.
Speaker:And it also makes me think of all of there are so many companies, I mean,
Speaker:not only the aluminum melters and but you know, big shopping centers
Speaker:and even the state of the, a C T has done a power purchasing agreement.
Speaker:So they basically say, okay, You know, external company, we agree to par purchase
Speaker:power at say, say $80 a megawatt hour.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And when, if the, if the pay price goes up, then you profit off that.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:If the price goes down, then you profit because we could have bought it at
Speaker:60, but you we're, we are paying 80.
Speaker:And if the price goes up, then we win.
Speaker:And I think the I think the a C T last I heard was around $65 a mega
Speaker:hour, but basically all of the large power consumers are doing these deals
Speaker:because they want to lock in that, you know, if, if there's a generator
Speaker:that can supply them for 80 then yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:We'll, we'll, we'll take our chance on how yeah.
Speaker:How the market looks.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and the irony in a way for the, a C T, which is, you know, very you
Speaker:know, very committed to going green producing greenhouse gas emissions
Speaker:and things like that is that if they had all solar, solar would be free.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And therefore they would be loo they would be paying money to, to use that
Speaker:free power mm-hmm . But so far it hasn't
Speaker:happened yet.
Speaker:Now there's a website called renew economy dot comu, and it had an interesting
Speaker:article about nuclear power, which I'm gonna talk about in a minute.
Speaker:But in the meantime, while I was there, it had this interesting
Speaker:Little link that you can go to.
Speaker:And at any point in time, during the day or night, you can look at the national
Speaker:energy market and see which states are using how much electricity and what
Speaker:type of electricity that they're using.
Speaker:So, so yeah, if you're into electricity markets and wondering what's going on,
Speaker:then renew economy.com AU interesting link that you can just see what's going
Speaker:on with electricity during the day.
Speaker:I thought that was an interesting one.
Speaker:And
Speaker:yeah, I just wanted to pick Chris in the chat has said,
Speaker:hypothetically, can I store power?
Speaker:And when they need it, I can then choose to sell it.
Speaker:And the answer is unfortunately for retail customers, not yet.
Speaker:Right, but there's two parts to this, firstly, I mean, that is what, say a
Speaker:hi a pumped storage hydro project does or like, you know, the the horns style,
Speaker:big battery that south Australia put in.
Speaker:They do exactly that.
Speaker:So if you're a big company, Chris, you can for us regular people
Speaker:you can't get like a, a power
Speaker:at the, in the mid part of the day and then put it back, you
Speaker:know, sorry, the late at night, put it back in the middle of the
Speaker:day or the, the it'll detect peak period.
Speaker:It'll detect that.
Speaker:That's what you're doing.
Speaker:It'll it'll well, somehow it's gotta come from the direct from the solar panel,
Speaker:not via a battery is what you're saying.
Speaker:Well, the
Speaker:problem is that you don't actually so firstly, as far as I know.
Speaker:I don't think there are any batteries out there that allow you to do that.
Speaker:And you are probably not allow allowed to jigger around with the firmware on
Speaker:the batteries to make them do that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But even then, you're probably only going to get whatever you
Speaker:are feeding tariff is anyway.
Speaker:So, you know, you might buy like, you know, for most of us we're buying power at
Speaker:20 cents, you know, 21 cents a kilowatt.
Speaker:And even at off peak we might be paying 12 cents a kilowatt and our feed in
Speaker:rate is more like 7 cents a kilowatt.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Gotcha.
Speaker:But
Speaker:the other thing
Speaker:that's coming is, hang on.
Speaker:The feeding rate is seven, but you said you were selling it back to the, okay.
Speaker:So if you are really, really lucky and you happen to be on it.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:that's you, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:okay.
Speaker:That's you
Speaker:for the rest of, for the rest of the people?
Speaker:You're pretty much, you know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But the thing that is coming for Chris is vehicle to grid.
Speaker:So what that allows you to do, and we, we've sort of seen some of that
Speaker:coming with things like the Ford F-150 lightning and other vehicles we're
Speaker:basically, you can power an ordinary two 40 volt device off your car.
Speaker:Vehicle grid says vehicle to grid allows you to not only power
Speaker:your house using the same plug.
Speaker:So you plug it in, in the same way that you normally do to charge it.
Speaker:And then the vehicle system and the house system say, oh, I need some power now.
Speaker:So I'll supply the house instead, but they are allowing They're they're
Speaker:looking, there's a trial project at the moment, looking at how this works.
Speaker:It's run by the Australian, Australian national university.
Speaker:And it's looking at how this had actually been implemented in practice.
Speaker:Does, do you get to do power arbitrage on a day to day basis or do, is
Speaker:that, you know, is that pointless?
Speaker:What, what would the, you know, what, what should the software look like?
Speaker:What controls should we have all that sort of stuff.
Speaker:So I
Speaker:gotta do something it's a work models on how that will affect the market.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:E even just sort of to the, the point of the, because the other part of
Speaker:that process is the ability basically to, for the grid to say it's peak
Speaker:period time, and I really don't want you sucking 22 kilowatt hours
Speaker:out of the grid right now, please,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:There's lots of clever things are gonna be worked out and
Speaker:even the car technology will go.
Speaker:I know your diary and I know you're not driving anywhere tomorrow, so I
Speaker:know I can use the battery in a certain way with that information, or I know
Speaker:you aren't gonna need the battery full tomorrow and therefore yeah.
Speaker:There's lots of interesting things will happen that way.
Speaker:Mm-hmm you,
Speaker:do you know, Saul Griffith?
Speaker:Have you heard of the name Saul Griffith?
Speaker:I think I have heard of the name, but I don't know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He he wrote a book called electrify everything.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so he talks about all that sort of last, like the
Speaker:last 10% of all of the uses.
Speaker:But he also has, I think, three.
Speaker:Car conversion projects on the go and he's he's selling
Speaker:them to his wife as good news.
Speaker:We get a, a big battery for our house and I also get to drive it around,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah, no, it's gonna be a significant player.
Speaker:These, these car batteries in 20 or 30 years when there's more of 'em around.
Speaker:So now some people think nuclear is the answer to perceived electricity shortages.
Speaker:And I know in the past John listen to John is keen on it.
Speaker:And my brother was also into these sort of small modular reactors for nuclear.
Speaker:And there's an article from this renew economy website, which I stumbled across.
Speaker:And I'll read a bit about it.
Speaker:Before Peter Dutton's coalition charge off into yet another inquiry into the merits
Speaker:of nuclear power, of course, coalition is spooking nuclear power as is sky news.
Speaker:Funny how they didn't do anything about it in the nine years
Speaker:that they were in power indeed.
Speaker:And suddenly now it's yes, they really should just shut up for 12 months cuz
Speaker:that's just the standard response.
Speaker:You just can't come up with broad ideas now just, just go away for 12 months
Speaker:and read and we'll hear from you later.
Speaker:Anyway, this article says they might wanna take a class.
Speaker:Look at what's happening in Europe, where the failure of France's huge
Speaker:nuclear power plant fleet is causing bigger problems for EU power supplies.
Speaker:Then rushes, withheld gas supply France has been delivering just a fraction
Speaker:of its energy production potential in recent months and overnight the
Speaker:situation got worse when French power producer EDF announced another three
Speaker:power plants would curtail output because of rising temperatures.
Speaker:Rivers have become too hot in the latest heat wave to be used to cool the reactors.
Speaker:So the majority of France's 56 nuclear reactors are currently throttled down
Speaker:or taken offline due to a combination of scheduled maintenance, erosion damage.
Speaker:That's a worry yes, and cooling water shortages due to recurring heat waves.
Speaker:And this problem has caused wholesale electricity prices to soar and
Speaker:costing the French government a Mo because they subsidize power bills.
Speaker:So the cost of making up the difference is now gonna be 24 billion.
Speaker:Oh, Australian 40 billion this year alone.
Speaker:And so yeah, so one of the arguments for coal has been it's for a reliable and
Speaker:consistent, and we've had problem with coal fired generators, actually having
Speaker:maintenance issues and fires and whatever.
Speaker:And we could have the same with nuclear.
Speaker:It's not like you just switch these things on and they're good for the next 30 years.
Speaker:They've got issues as well.
Speaker:So this base load power that people talk about, you know, if we for start
Speaker:there, aren't small nuclear stations that are actually modular ones
Speaker:that are working they're twice the cost of a bigger nuclear situation.
Speaker:Anyway, You've still got no guarantees.
Speaker:You still have issues with them.
Speaker:So you're still going to need backups.
Speaker:And you know, we're looking at Ukraine where there's these attacks
Speaker:on the nuclear power plants.
Speaker:Who's to say that, you know, down the track, we're not
Speaker:involved in some armed conflict.
Speaker:And if you were trying to, you know, cause a problem for a
Speaker:country, it's definitely a target.
Speaker:It would make sense that with at least solar and these other renewables,
Speaker:it's a spreading of the risk.
Speaker:There's multiple generators in multiple areas.
Speaker:And just like Scott Morrison wanting multiple backups of ministries.
Speaker:This is a case though, where you are actually spreading the risk
Speaker:and you know, that is a factor that people need to take into account.
Speaker:And I dunno if you've said it before, but I think you've probably said you, like,
Speaker:you've kind of touched on that issue.
Speaker:I've certainly heard it heard it said elsewhere.
Speaker:That the problem with small modular reactors is on the one hand, if you
Speaker:are going to install them, like, you know, they're small, they're modular.
Speaker:They can go anywhere.
Speaker:Well, let's just install them in every country town.
Speaker:Oh, well now we have a thousand sites that we need to defend rather than a dozen
Speaker:and, and they're twice as expensive as normal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And if you then want to secure those sites, well, obviously what you do
Speaker:is you build large sites, right?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Like a coal fired power station, which concentrates all of the
Speaker:generation in one place, which means you need distribution transmission.
Speaker:So, you know, it's, it's also incredibly bad for security and I can't help, but
Speaker:notice that none of these reactors have.
Speaker:You know, we don't even have the infrastructure to generate the, like, to
Speaker:make the reactor, let alone make its fuel.
Speaker:Where are we gonna get that from?
Speaker:Oh, from overseas jolly good.
Speaker:Then like where, where, where we buy our oil from right.
Speaker:We can't use the fuel that we mine here.
Speaker:Like it's gotta be processed in a way we gotta refine it, which
Speaker:we don't the technology for.
Speaker:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And,
Speaker:and you can absolutely bet that a you know, the com the countries that do
Speaker:do this Britain France, and the us are not going to let that kind of stuff
Speaker:walk out to places like Australia.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, you know, I think there's a bit where this whole change in the
Speaker:electricity market is, is a threat to big players, and it allows so many
Speaker:smaller entrants and for the coalition who like to support big players,
Speaker:big multinationals, big companies.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:This democratization of energy is not in the interest of the large capitalists.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's ironic to me that by democratization there, what we're
Speaker:talking about is companies with only 20 million, rather than 2 billion
Speaker:mm-hmm , and they're still against it.
Speaker:Like, it's not, you know, they've kind of lost the battle on rooftop solar, but, you
Speaker:know, they're still essentially saying, well, you know, we want, we don't, we want
Speaker:to shut the large solar generators and the large wind farms and companies like that
Speaker:out of the electricity market as well.
Speaker:In the chat room, Chris says, Chris, you'd been chatting
Speaker:away very well there, come on.
Speaker:Someone else, some other people need to join.
Speaker:Chris.
Speaker:Chris says, when I was a medical student at uni, I visited the south Sydney
Speaker:nuclear reactor, and they said they could keep it cool with a garden hose.
Speaker:I guess the other question Chris was how many houses could they
Speaker:power from that experimental nuclear reactor that they had there?
Speaker:What what's that
Speaker:I dunno, maybe, maybe, maybe as much as a
Speaker:toaster.
Speaker:Yeah, because there is a small reactor down there in Sydney
Speaker:for sort of research purposes.
Speaker:And yeah, I guess the question maybe Chris will come in with a comment,
Speaker:but you know, just how much power was generated from that is the next question.
Speaker:Mm, briefly.
Speaker:Yeah, because Paul, we've gotta rattle through some topics to
Speaker:get to some by nine o'clock.
Speaker:So I can then get into cultural Marxism and knock that over in half an hour.
Speaker:Like let's, just quickly Anglican church in new south Wales they've split.
Speaker:And so they've got basically conservative evangelical types who just can't get
Speaker:their head around, same sex marriage and OB just object to the change
Speaker:in the the teaching of the church.
Speaker:So they've broken away and created their own little subgroup.
Speaker:And the ones in favor of same sex marriage are still part of
Speaker:the, the major Anglican church.
Speaker:But rebel group that's broken away are the sort of crazy evangelicals
Speaker:who don't like same sex marriage.
Speaker:And that will be interesting to see how the property is split
Speaker:up for the stuff that they own.
Speaker:So I was just
Speaker:wondering what they'd call themselves.
Speaker:And of course it's called the diocese of the Southern cross.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Because there's nothing like drawing nationalism into a church isn't there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Good point it's it's yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Like it.
Speaker:The, the newer, an, the newer GLI Anglican church or the, you know, the
Speaker:brothers of west Sydney or whatever.
Speaker:No, it's the Southern cross.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I, at some point, I know you wanna rattle through things,
Speaker:so I'll, I'll just flag this.
Speaker:And at some point, Trevor, Trevor, I'd like to talk to
Speaker:you about positive nationalism,
Speaker:positive nationalism.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Where you can be proud of your country.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And not also have to be a, and
Speaker:a fascist
Speaker:a yes.
Speaker:You know, defended at all costs kind of person.
Speaker:But anyway, let's table that let's move on.
Speaker:Cause no
Speaker:positive nationalist.
Speaker:You're saying it's not possible to be, or you think it's no,
Speaker:what I'm, what I'm saying is that we, there is this stigma against people
Speaker:who are proud of the flag who sing the national Anthem and things like that as
Speaker:either being too patriotic or a bit ish.
Speaker:And what it does is leaves the actual nationalism for the people that think
Speaker:that going, you know, go heading off, down with a couple of Australian flags
Speaker:and bashing some Lebanese people at Koji
Speaker:is a good sport.
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:So they've left a gap for people who want to be nationalist in a nice way.
Speaker:Because there isn't a, a soft nationalism, people are forced to choose
Speaker:the hard nationalism if they wanna exhibit a bit of nationalism, is that
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:You know, you, if you, if you holding up an Australian flag, then
Speaker:you must be one of those people.
Speaker:And so the people who aren't.
Speaker:Hide the flag and don't want show it, I show it.
Speaker:But,
Speaker:you know, do you have a feeling you'd like to show the flag more,
Speaker:but you are being held back?
Speaker:Is
Speaker:that
Speaker:what you're saying?
Speaker:As it, as it happens?
Speaker:I've got one right here.
Speaker:No, it just occurs to me that that the, you know, a lot of the outpourings of
Speaker:sympathy for you know, for the billow Wheeler family for, you know, the,
Speaker:the sort of indigenous voice to, or the, at least the sort of recognition
Speaker:the acknowledgement of refugees and asylum seekers tends to be pushed back
Speaker:on by a group of people who called themselves Patriots and the people who
Speaker:protested anti-vax that sort of anti mask mandates and anti vaccinations were
Speaker:going around waving Australian flags and saying how it was unas UN Australian
Speaker:to, you know, where masks or things
Speaker:like that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So sort of national flag waving though, is, is kind of one of the
Speaker:first boxes to tick for fascism.
Speaker:Isn't it like?
Speaker:That's, that's the prob that's the problem with it?
Speaker:To some extent
Speaker:sorry, Don.
Speaker:Two of his comment just completely distracted me there.
Speaker:Don, what you do with your underwear in your own time is your own problem.
Speaker:Mm-hmm I, what, I, I agree that if we are all told to line up on, you know,
Speaker:At the side of the street and wave the flag for the prime minister as he
Speaker:drives by or something like that then.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That's an odd approach to nationalism, but I think on the other hand that
Speaker:say flying an Australian flag in, you know, in one's front yard is not a
Speaker:you, but what's it saying, is it saying we're such a good country and I'm
Speaker:proud of us is, is that I think it can
Speaker:acknowledge the flaws of a Australia and still be proud of it at successes S
Speaker:but, you know, it's like, well, every country can be
Speaker:what, what country couldn't be.
Speaker:It's, it's kind of, there's a little bit of you know, part of our international
Speaker:relations is that we tend to not treat an, when we are a country treating another
Speaker:country, it's a different dynamic to we, as people treating other people,
Speaker:we there's a sort of a selfishness and that we can exhibit as the country of
Speaker:Australia, against other countries that we would never do as individuals with
Speaker:other individuals, like as individuals with our neighbors, we treat our
Speaker:individual neighbors far better, and with a different view than we do as
Speaker:a country, to our, to our neighbors.
Speaker:I just, it's kind of like, big deal.
Speaker:We, we, we, we happen to, through, she luck be plopped on this particular
Speaker:patch of dirt on this particular planet with this particular ideology
Speaker:running around in this particular time.
Speaker:And there's a bunch of really good people.
Speaker:On other clumps of dirt scattered around and to sort of go, Hey, we're
Speaker:here and this is our color, you know, look at, I just don't get it myself.
Speaker:I not because of bad feelings about Australia, but just, yeah,
Speaker:I, I think I like, I absolutely celebrate your cosmopolitan approach there to say,
Speaker:we can, we can look at other countries and say they do good things too.
Speaker:You know that a and, and certainly that jingoistic kind of God's own country,
Speaker:you know, nowhere could be possibly as good as any, you know, as Australia.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's, that's a, a, a trivial, a boring form of jingoism that tries
Speaker:to dress itself up as nationalism.
Speaker:But I think you can, but I think you are, you know, like you are celebrating
Speaker:the, the country that you live in and you admire our, you know, our, the sports
Speaker:people and our intellectuals and our playwrights and our, you know, politicians
Speaker:that go out and do good in the world.
Speaker:Is it, is it any different to having the Brisbane Broncos flag in your front yard?
Speaker:It's just saying I'm a member of this team.
Speaker:I love my team.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I just, it's,
Speaker:it's harder to do when when you are overseas to hold up, you know, an
Speaker:Australian flag and say, you know, I'm at the you Australia versus west
Speaker:Indies match in Jamaica and Kingston, and I'm gonna hold up the, the
Speaker:Australian flag, but like, you can.
Speaker:You can still be, what, what I wanna differentiate between is you can be proud.
Speaker:We can be proud of our successes without putting down anyone else.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:So you wanna RA make, make some room for some positive nationalism.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Where it should be viewed as, as that and nothing sinister.
Speaker:And the problem is people are shying away from it because it's
Speaker:starting to have some potential.
Speaker:Well, if connotations,
Speaker:because if we don't actively step in and say, no, this is,
Speaker:this is inviting refugees here.
Speaker:Nationalism is reaching out to our, you know, like I'm proud as an Australian
Speaker:that we are reaching out to our first nations people and, you know, going
Speaker:for reconciliation things like the, if we don't, if we don't say that
Speaker:is what our form of nationalism or patriotism mm-hmm is about, then it
Speaker:being gets taken over by the proud boys.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And by the, the fascists and by
Speaker:yes, it all.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I get it.
Speaker:I think it's yes.
Speaker:Unless good people start flying the flag.
Speaker:Then when you see a flag flying, you're gonna assume it's a bad person.
Speaker:Cuz the only people overtly flying the flag at the moment
Speaker:are some, some, some nutts.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like if you saw a car driving down the freeway with some Australian
Speaker:flags all over it, you wouldn't be thinking how strong all over you'd be.
Speaker:You'd be thinking crazy Nutter.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I get ya.
Speaker:We've
Speaker:we're allowing an Australian flag in one corner of the rear view mirror.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Then, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That's okay.
Speaker:That doesn't
Speaker:automatically label them.
Speaker:There's more flags out there then will be less likely to
Speaker:think a negative connotation.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:I get that.
Speaker:That's that's sort of thing.
Speaker:Positive nationalism.
Speaker:Thank you, Paul.
Speaker:Right quickly.
Speaker:We've done the church schism.
Speaker:We've done the church.
Speaker:There's a schism and they're going to have a, a problem.
Speaker:Well, they're just gonna split and argue with each other over the next.
Speaker:Cing probably over church assets and there's been similar splits in
Speaker:Canada, us Brazil, New Zealand, often involving protracted legal disputes
Speaker:over property rights, Crimea river, Paul
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:I'm absolutely with you on that.
Speaker:In that it's really hard for me to have any sympathy sympathy with you know,
Speaker:how there, you know, I don't know.
Speaker:No, that's, that's too strong.
Speaker:I, I really sympathize with, with the moderates who are, who have been trying
Speaker:to say, no, we want you to actually be nice to be people for a change and
Speaker:have the evangelicals say, no, no, no.
Speaker:We want to go out there and tell everyone that this is our message.
Speaker:And you must believe it, whether you like it or not.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:I have I'm sympathy.
Speaker:I'm sympathetic to the moderates in that, but if it's just a schism in the
Speaker:church, then we've had lots of those.
Speaker:We could probably get lots more.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Just quickly, those crazy Japanese, apparently Paul in Japan, it's quite
Speaker:common that when you pick up your kid from daycare, they give you the kid.
Speaker:Plus the dirty nappies that the kids generated during the day,
Speaker:I was kind of vaguely worried when I read this that they'd kind of
Speaker:individually like labeled them and kept them separate so that like
Speaker:we know that your child generated
Speaker:these a survey has shown a light on the common, but rarely discussed
Speaker:practice with about 40% of towns and cities in Japan saying they demand
Speaker:the guardians of the infant clientele, take their used nappies with them.
Speaker:And this woman who was interviewed says why should I take them home?
Speaker:and they're kind of scratching their heads as to why this practice has continued.
Speaker:And there seems to be maybe about 49% of them do it.
Speaker:And they think the reason is it gives the parents the opportunity to check
Speaker:their child's health by examining their stools while a, a smaller numbers said
Speaker:they don't have facilities or budget to dispose of the nappies themselves.
Speaker:So there you go.
Speaker:Dear list note, if you've got a baby in childcare and you're picking that baby
Speaker:up at some stage in the future if you were Japanese, you, you might well be
Speaker:picking up a bag of dirty nappies that you'd be half expected to examine before.
Speaker:Disposing
Speaker:off.
Speaker:Alright, Paul's coming back in a minute.
Speaker:While he's away, this will let me actually rattle through some topics.
Speaker:Mum and dad, housing investors.
Speaker:If you'd like to know the occupation of the.
Speaker:The top 10 occupations for people, mums and dads who are housing investors.
Speaker:Number one, surgeon, number two, anesthetist three internal
Speaker:medicine specialist, four psychiatrists, five dentist, six
Speaker:school principal, seven other Medi.
Speaker:So there you go.
Speaker:Six of the top seven are in some sort of medical thing.
Speaker:Eight is an engineering manager.
Speaker:Nine is a mining engineer and 10 you'll be pleased to know Chris and jungle juice.
Speaker:Jungle is an ADF officer as number 10 in terms of property, investment,
Speaker:mums, and dads in Australia.
Speaker:Paul's got his headphones on.
Speaker:I just rattled through the top 10 of people likely to have property
Speaker:investors, huge overrepresentation of medical people there.
Speaker:And, but
Speaker:technically they could be both, you know, either a mother or a father.
Speaker:And therefore, technically they, you know, would count as mom and dad, but no, it's
Speaker:absolutely not what we, it's not what the liberal party tell us or the little
Speaker:Aussie Aussie battlers, you know, with their three, you know, income properties.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:No problem.
Speaker:Another time.
Speaker:I wasn't even planning to do it in this time, but gonna talk about baby boomers
Speaker:briefly at some stage as a generation.
Speaker:That is a good argument against democracy.
Speaker:I've read this book, Paul, right?
Speaker:Have always intrigued by that.
Speaker:Your approaches to argument, these kinds of arguments.
Speaker:This book is titled a generation of sociopaths.
Speaker:How the baby boomers betrayed America.
Speaker:Good title.
Speaker:Here's the thesis.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is that.
Speaker:Because baby boomers was such a large bump in the population and politicians
Speaker:wanted their votes, essentially, as the boomers moved through their
Speaker:life cycle, the laws were changed.
Speaker:So as to suit boomers at the expense of other generations, so yeah, right
Speaker:down to changing the voting age and and then taxation changes that were
Speaker:made when boomers were basically accumulating and earning high money,
Speaker:the tax breaks were on earning.
Speaker:And and now that they're cashing in, in terms of retirement and stuff,
Speaker:the tax rules are benefiting them.
Speaker:And it's quite an expose and essentially kind of a compelling argument that
Speaker:politicians with an eye on votes, crafting legislation to suit the most number
Speaker:of people, which is democracy, but it ended up favoring a particular cohort
Speaker:the baby boomers the expense of others.
Speaker:So that will be for another time, but on the face of it sounds reasonable
Speaker:as a theory, as a hypothesis,
Speaker:I'm glad you put it as the politicians decided to favor them, because I don't
Speaker:feel like the baby boomer boomers as a generation just up and decided that we
Speaker:are going to enact these policies because the policy politicians that, that did that
Speaker:true.
Speaker:But if you were to look at, mm, you know, a generation that say let's nationalize
Speaker:let's, let's sell off the national assets of the, you know, The railway,
Speaker:the the things that have been built up by previous generations, I will sell them.
Speaker:We'll get a, a sweetener into our economy for the next two or three years,
Speaker:but long term for future generations.
Speaker:It's, it's a bad move, essentially.
Speaker:It's a, it's a selfish move by the current generation, if you decide
Speaker:to sell off the commons and, sure.
Speaker:And not restrict it.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:so yeah, but I feel like that's applied at all times that the
Speaker:commons have been sold off.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But when the commons was the real commons, going back more into the 17, 18 hundreds,
Speaker:it was more a case of, we need to protect the commons and we need to recognize
Speaker:it's there for everybody and protect it and stop people encroaching on it.
Speaker:Whereas in more recent times, we've lost the recognition of the commons
Speaker:and going, oh, what you mean?
Speaker:I can buy some cheap Telstra shares that John Howard and
Speaker:Julia Gillard are selling great.
Speaker:Don't worry that down the track, we won't have a telecommunications
Speaker:network owned by the commons.
Speaker:It'll be owned by some private enterprise.
Speaker:So that's the sort of thing where you can accuse a generation of
Speaker:being selfish by cashing in stuff that isn't there to cash in.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:But again, I would push back on the idea that it was just solely for the
Speaker:baby boomers in that, you know, the, I would, I guess I would argue here that
Speaker:you know, Reaganomics and Thatcherism privatize, everything philosophy are.
Speaker:Came at a time where both the unions in the us and the, and the UK were very
Speaker:strong and that was the right wing, right wing was right wing of politics,
Speaker:method of, you know, killing that dragon sell those off, privatize them, make
Speaker:them into, to, you know, take away that the power of those, those unions.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Build up a, a bunch of myths about, you know, doll, bludgers and whatever.
Speaker:But like, you know, we, we saw you know, whether it's big mining leases in the
Speaker:fifties and sixties up to, you know, privatized companies in the eighties
Speaker:and nineties and even the two thousands.
Speaker:And I guess I would argue that the, the latest one is the, the creation
Speaker:of things like a carbon market where carbon certificates can be traded as if
Speaker:they aren't just purely for the purpose of deferring a unit of CO2 emission.
Speaker:Mm-hmm, no, there something that could, you know, increase and decrease in value.
Speaker:And you know, who knows what speculators, you know, money
Speaker:speculators could get out of it.
Speaker:You know, all of these things are taking and you know, which are
Speaker:basically, which basically start in the commons and privatizing them.
Speaker:And they've been, that's suited capital very well.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:I mean, who's, who seems to be.
Speaker:At least wanting to do something about climate change, which
Speaker:generation the older, or the younger generation, the boomers, or the
Speaker:millennials.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:The, the boomers at the current, you know, sort of holder of that stick.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But even then, you know, I mean, my, my mom and dad grew up in that generation
Speaker:and both of them are, you know, dad was mummies passionate environmentalists.
Speaker:So I don't, I don't
Speaker:feel like, ah, your lived experience.
Speaker:Isn't an argument for,
Speaker:it's just no sure.
Speaker:But what I'm all I'm saying is that it is not, the boomers
Speaker:are not here universally of
Speaker:one mind.
Speaker:No, I'm not saying they are, but you know, there are trends
Speaker:that are pretty clear, so sure.
Speaker:And,
Speaker:and I would add that, you know, my two people that I know who I have, let's say
Speaker:cease to associate with told me at one point I think when they, it was about
Speaker:2013 that they were quite proud that they would had voted for Tony Abbott
Speaker:because they were just about to retire.
Speaker:And that would mean that the the liberal party was going to be a
Speaker:better government to, to manage the economy and keep their superannuation.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Like you, what you voted labor for 40 years and now you've just changed
Speaker:your vote because you're hoping that the other side, do you a better deal.
Speaker:It doesn't sound like you are.
Speaker:It sounds like you're putting like exactly what John Howard did
Speaker:right at the start of the episode.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:You know, putting political expedience, you like personal interest as at.
Speaker:The forefront for Howard
Speaker:and Barnaby.
Speaker:It was, what's not, what's in the best interest of my party.
Speaker:Not what's in the best interest of my country.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Now, moving on to column cultural Marxism, Paul.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And why am I gonna talk about this?
Speaker:Because I see it cropping up in different articles and different
Speaker:news items from time to time.
Speaker:So I'm gonna set the scene with some commentary about it.
Speaker:So Holly Hughes to start with, it turns out Marxist, don't like being called
Speaker:Marxist apparently, but we do know that in the education department, there is a
Speaker:very strong, left wing Ben and anyone that denies that either doesn't have kids at
Speaker:school, or aren't saying what's happening, even with the curriculum, the curriculum
Speaker:is moving so far to the left these days.
Speaker:We know that it's all John Kanes, if not Marxism, rather
Speaker:than Adam Smith, there we go.
Speaker:So Marxism John Kanes, Adam Smith, I'm
Speaker:absolutely prepared to bet that she could not define Marxism at all, or
Speaker:the theories of Adam Smith in and, and how they've been bastardized.
Speaker:And what was the other one that she mentioned there?
Speaker:Anyway I think she's a liberal Senator in Victoria, so yeah.
Speaker:That's Holly Hughes.
Speaker:Now another place where this has come up, let me just grab this clip is this is
Speaker:the new one, NA United Australia party.
Speaker:Oh, the, the single Senator.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Senator bait, Baba mm-hmm bait.
Speaker:Another Victorian let's go with Mor what are you doing in Victoria?
Speaker:So, so this I'm not sure I get a feeling, this was his maiden speech, so.
Speaker:Let's have a listen to this one as well.
Speaker:We are witnessing the steady decline of our traditional institutions, such as
Speaker:family, marriage, religion, the sanctity of life, patriotism,
Speaker:borders, and education
Speaker:to name a few.
Speaker:This is not an accident, but rather by design radical Marxist ideology has been
Speaker:marching through our institutions for some time terms like white privilege
Speaker:and gender fluidity have now become commonplace.
Speaker:Marxist se world as being inherently unequal, they seek to address this
Speaker:apparent inequality by tearing down the very fabric of our civilization,
Speaker:Sanna that somebody may be rebuilt
Speaker:in their forks, utopian vision, oh vision, which would seek
Speaker:to destroy the very systems that have made us one of the greatest countries
Speaker:in the world and turn us into a shadow
Speaker:of our former selves,
Speaker:a nation, which bow of the whim of big government, where the individual is
Speaker:snuffed out in favor of collectivist ideology, where freedom of a speech
Speaker:thought and religiou oh, look, he, he just talking about the liberal party.
Speaker:He just goes, he goes on
Speaker:and on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thank you for saving me.
Speaker:Like, it must be wrong to laugh at a person like that, but I
Speaker:can't find it in my heart to to give him any credit for that.
Speaker:No, it, it, it went like, especially when he, you know, went for the, and tear
Speaker:through the very fabric of society, you know, it's just like, did you just get
Speaker:out that, that out of rhetoric 1 0 1, you
Speaker:know yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He was trying to paint a picture.
Speaker:He wasn't convincing me.
Speaker:I dunno if he's convinced others, but yeah, he said radical Marxist.
Speaker:Have taken over our institutions and will seek to turn on the
Speaker:very fabric of Australia.
Speaker:So that may be rebuilt in their, for utopian vision.
Speaker:which of course the person who wrote it wrote the French word
Speaker:photo, if a UX, French for fake.
Speaker:But I know I didn't run that past him.
Speaker:So
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I'm I'm with you jungle juice straight from the military playbook.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So
Speaker:they are bad and we are good.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's all you need to know.
Speaker:And I'll just put up, this is sort of an internet meme I saw, which again, just
Speaker:Marxism thrown into climate hysteria.
Speaker:It's, it's an iceberg with the, with the outta the water tip being called
Speaker:climate hysteria and the under the water, majority of the iceberg being
Speaker:called Marxism, like just they're really throwing it in, in different areas.
Speaker:I find if you it's one of those things, you know how, if you say
Speaker:your car, you need new tires.
Speaker:All of a sudden you start seeing advertisements for car tires.
Speaker:Mm-hmm and you just, yeah.
Speaker:It's one of those things that when you're sort of attuned to it it
Speaker:seemed to pop up in a lot of places.
Speaker:So I'm seeing it in lots of places.
Speaker:And yeah, this, this throwing the word of Marx out as an insult in a
Speaker:boogie man and this group of Marxist.
Speaker:So you're better watch out.
Speaker:I, I do wonder if they think that communist just isn't doesn't have
Speaker:the same bite anymore, you know, like they used to call people socialists
Speaker:and now socialists are kind of okay.
Speaker:And so we call them communists and now communist is kind of okay.
Speaker:And so we better call them Marxists because that's even worse.
Speaker:Well, I think they know they can't get away with communist because it's
Speaker:a little bit like what I said with China that people refer to China
Speaker:now as an authoritarian regime, rather than a communist one, because
Speaker:people go, oh, hang on a minute.
Speaker:There's, there's all these billionaires in China and they've got a market economy.
Speaker:It doesn't look that communist to me.
Speaker:So, I think they're playing on the fact that it's difficult to accuse
Speaker:bill shorten of being a communist and people go, this doesn't sound right.
Speaker:But if accuse of being a Marxist, they go, oh geez.
Speaker:maybe he is not sure one is, sounds bad.
Speaker:Well, because you can't define it because, you know, I don't know,
Speaker:like Mark's was bad, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I really worry with these kind, this kind of like the left does it too.
Speaker:And I browse imager occasionally for my sins.
Speaker:And there's a lot of just kind of basically name calling, like,
Speaker:you know, making jokes at Trump's expense or making jokes at Hill's
Speaker:expenses or, you know, and it.
Speaker:You know, the right has basically realized that, oh, there's these,
Speaker:there's these things called memes.
Speaker:And we can use them to get our ideas out and make people laugh and, and therefore
Speaker:they spread and they don't have to
Speaker:be true.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They don't have to be, you know, it, it doesn't have to mean anything, you
Speaker:know, like you could make the same image with the top caption being for
Speaker:CO's pendulum and the bottom being God mm-hmm , you know, it would mean as much.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:well pronounced for co by the way, because we are gonna be talking
Speaker:about French and German philosophers.
Speaker:Oh righty.
Speaker:And I thought I've just bagged this one nation Senator for
Speaker:not pronouncing faux correctly.
Speaker:I better look up.
Speaker:I better look up the pronunciation here, so yeah.
Speaker:So
Speaker:I'm glad you, I gave you a heads up there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So Michelle Fuko we're gonna be talking about, we're gonna be
Speaker:talking about an Italian guy.
Speaker:G R a M S C I, which I would've said Grahams ski, but I looked it up and
Speaker:it's Graham, she at Tony Graham.
Speaker:She is Italian guy then there's Fredrick, Nicha, Nicha.
Speaker:So Nicha or Nicha.
Speaker:I think it's Nicha.
Speaker:Cuz when I went on Google, how to pronounce.
Speaker:So you've you would've seen it written dear listener.
Speaker:N I E T Z S C H E.
Speaker:And I'd never bothered to sort of, I've read it lots of times, but
Speaker:never really listened to people.
Speaker:Cause I don't listen to Jordan Peterson I guess, but nature apparently.
Speaker:So pretty direct nature.
Speaker:And there's another guy Jill at the loose French one.
Speaker:So I'll do my best to mangle the French language, which I'm no expert
Speaker:in as we work our way through these French and German philosophies.
Speaker:That's Australian . So the question is we need to know a little bit about
Speaker:Marx and what he actually said to determine whether something is Marxist,
Speaker:the starters before we even a wild idea discuss whether it's good or bad.
Speaker:So there was an article here from the conversation, a guy Christopher
Speaker:Pollard teaches philosophy in sociology at deacon university.
Speaker:His research is on 20th century, European philosophy and social theory saying he
Speaker:sounds qualified enough to make a few comments and I'm just gonna paraphrase
Speaker:some of the things he says, Marx was writing where mid Victorian capitalism
Speaker:was at its Dickensian, worst analyzing how the new industrialism was causing radical
Speaker:social upheaval and severe urban poverty.
Speaker:And this is important actually, when you're thinking about marks is
Speaker:it was that Dickensian type of era that he was seeing and experiencing.
Speaker:It was a, some people were in a terrible state.
Speaker:So I'm just reading a little bit from my Kenon Mallek book, the
Speaker:quest for a moral compass page 2 34.
Speaker:So this was Engels Marx's.
Speaker:Colleague was writing about a place called little island, which was a slum
Speaker:in Manchester and he writes the cottages are old, dirty, and of the smallest sort,
Speaker:the streets uneven fall into ruts and in part without drains or pavement, masses
Speaker:of refu, awful and sickening, filth lie among standing pearls in all directions.
Speaker:The atmosphere is poisoned by the Eluvia from these and Laden and darkened by the
Speaker:smoke of a dozen tall factory chimneys, a horde of ragged women and children
Speaker:swarm about here as filthy as the SW that thrive upon the garbage heaps and
Speaker:in the puddles, the race that lives in these ruinous cottages behind broken
Speaker:windows, meed with oil skin, sprung doors and rotten door posts, or in dark wet
Speaker:sellers in measureless filth and stench in this atmosphere, pen in as if with
Speaker:a purpose, this race must really have reached the lowest stage of humanity.
Speaker:This is the impression and the line of thought, which the exterior of this
Speaker:district forces upon the beholder.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:This race must really have reached the lowest stage of humanity.
Speaker:Things were bad.
Speaker:Good, good words.
Speaker:Like Eluvia yes.
Speaker:In modern writing, do you?
Speaker:No, you don't not
Speaker:quality there.
Speaker:Yeah, but you know, this was a low point in human history and this was,
Speaker:you know, people in, you know, in terms of medieval, England, at least people
Speaker:were providing for themselves in as a peasant in the, in land owned by a Lord.
Speaker:You would rather be in that situation than, than in these terrible a place
Speaker:like little island in Manchester.
Speaker:So it was a dark point in human history that marks was dealing with, and
Speaker:he's looking at capitalism as quite rightly having caused this situation.
Speaker:So always bear that in mind with him going back to this article by
Speaker:this guy About marks his primary interest wasn't simply capitalism.
Speaker:It was human existence and our potential, his enduring philosophical
Speaker:contribution is an insightful, historically grounded perspective on
Speaker:human beings and industrial society.
Speaker:Marx observed capitalism.
Speaker:Wasn't only an economic system by which we produced food, clothing, and shelter.
Speaker:It was also bound up with a system of social relations, work, structured
Speaker:people's lives and opportunities in different ways, depending on their
Speaker:role in the production process.
Speaker:Most people, either part of the owning class or the working class, the interests
Speaker:of these classes were fundamentally opposed, which led inevitably to
Speaker:conflict between them on the basis of this marks predicted the inevitable
Speaker:collapse of capitalism leading to equally inevitable working class revolution.
Speaker:So look marks looked at class and said, we've got an owning class
Speaker:and I work in class, the interest conflict, or in opposition.
Speaker:You can't argue with, with what mark was was saying there.
Speaker:Now he's made the prediction of he really hasn't
Speaker:sorry.
Speaker:It really hasn't fundamentally changed.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And he's made the prediction of an inevitable collapse of capitalism.
Speaker:Well, well yet to see whether that plays out or not.
Speaker:But he's, you know, saying that eventually the working class will revolt.
Speaker:He said Mark's argued.
Speaker:Social change is driven by the tension, created with an existing
Speaker:social order through technological and organizational innovations in production.
Speaker:Technology driven changes in production, make new social forms possible, such
Speaker:that old social forms and classes become outmoded and displaced by new ones.
Speaker:Once the dominant class were the land owning Lord.
Speaker:But the new industrial system produced a new dominant class, the capitalists.
Speaker:And he said he sort of philosophically says that the conditions under which
Speaker:people live deeply shape the way they see and understand the world as
Speaker:marks, put it, then make their own history, but they do not make it under
Speaker:circumstances chosen by themselves.
Speaker:Individuals and groups are situated in social contexts, inherited from the
Speaker:past, which limit what they can do.
Speaker:So we are victims of our circumstances.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, but I mean, keep in mind as well.
Speaker:You know, marks was writing in the time and, you know, Dickens and other
Speaker:commentators at the time there is this rising middle classes as he kind
Speaker:of talks about where that has lots of money because they are traders.
Speaker:They are factory owners and they're like whole books.
Speaker:Like the etiquette book publishing industry is a thing because their sons
Speaker:and daughters are mixing in the society own, you know, that, that formally was
Speaker:dominated like exclusively by people who had titles back to the 12th century and
Speaker:suddenly there's all these up and coming, who knows where class that came from.
Speaker:But now they're like they bought that their estate next door.
Speaker:We can't be having that.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:The only way that the upper class could frown on that was basically by putting
Speaker:them down by laughing at their manners.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And so the lo the, the lower, the, the merchant class.
Speaker:Taught themselves manners really quickly, right?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:I really, I really also wanna say jungle juice here has said I've come
Speaker:to realize that capitalism is the root of all evil and the realization of
Speaker:being a foot soldier for the ruling class is, is unhappy with that.
Speaker:They're unhappy with that.
Speaker:And I, I would reassure you there, like, as marks is kind of saying, seeing this is
Speaker:not because either you had a choice on it.
Speaker:No, you are lumped with it.
Speaker:You are.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Or, or, or necessarily that doing that, you know, there
Speaker:is well, but it's a realization when you're being screwed is you could go, Ew.
Speaker:So I think maybe jungle J's jungle is going, yeah, holy shit.
Speaker:I'm being screwed.
Speaker:Certainly.
Speaker:It's certainly, maybe like, you know, I dunno if he's actually, you know, quelled
Speaker:any riots in manly or something like that, but, you know, the, I, I, I do think that
Speaker:you know, and I, I have good friends and I know a lot of military and ex-military
Speaker:people and all of them have gone into that service for the right reasons.
Speaker:They have wanted to serve their country and they've wanted to
Speaker:try and do the right thing.
Speaker:Doesn't mean you're supporting the capitalists just means you're trying
Speaker:to, you know, do the right thing.
Speaker:And part of the, the, part of the, the goal noble goal of this Trevor, this
Speaker:Trevor is to give people that broader
Speaker:perspective.
Speaker:That's what we're aiming for here.
Speaker:I'll keep going.
Speaker:So Marx's concept of ideology introduced an innovative way to critique how
Speaker:dominant beliefs and practices commonly taken to be for the good of all.
Speaker:Actually reflect the interests and reinforce the power of the
Speaker:ruling class for Mark's beliefs in philosophy, culture and economics
Speaker:often function to rationalize unfair advantages and privileges as natural.
Speaker:When in fact they are not.
Speaker:So he was not saying this is a conspiracy of the ruling class, rather it's
Speaker:because people are raised and learn how to think within a given social
Speaker:order through this, the views that seem eminently rational, rather conveniently
Speaker:tend to uphold the distribution of power and wealth as they are.
Speaker:So yeah, the people in charge who are in charge of the major institutions in our
Speaker:society naturally have those institutions reflect their beliefs and ideals,
Speaker:which it naturally in their interests.
Speaker:And that was one of the concepts that marks recognized which is
Speaker:why we should be especially wary of someone like Peter Dutton or John Howard
Speaker:telling us that they, they want to keep the negative gearing gearing rules because
Speaker:they're trying to support the, the mom and dad investors or the little people.
Speaker:So some of these ideas, like sort of this, this class battle and this idea
Speaker:of, of the ideal ideology of the ruling class naturally being maintained you
Speaker:know, we might have thought some of you might think, well, of course that's the
Speaker:case, but this was sort of new thinking.
Speaker:So marks was a a thinker in these sorts of things that people hadn't
Speaker:necessarily been thinking about before.
Speaker:So, so that was that article and A little bit more on, so
Speaker:that was Marx and now Marxism.
Speaker:So you would think that Marxism should be a reflection of Marx,
Speaker:but maybe not necessarily the case.
Speaker:This is where things get hairy, vague.
Speaker:So under Wikipedia for Marxism it's a method of socioeconomic analysis that uses
Speaker:a materialistic materialist interpretation of historical development to understand
Speaker:class relations and social conflict.
Speaker:Marxism has developed over time into various branches and schools
Speaker:of thought currently, no single definitive Marxist theory exists.
Speaker:So that's a good point to understand when Holly Hughes accuses people are
Speaker:being Marxist, or if anybody that you're talking to, you know, at a
Speaker:dinner party and the topic terms tends to Marxism, you really need to say,
Speaker:well, what do you mean by Marxism?
Speaker:What particular branch of Marxism are you referring to?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, because there are different schools that we're
Speaker:going to sort of, get into here.
Speaker:Actually that might be something for jungle juice to use when people
Speaker:call him for a a communist for a socialist for no a call of communist.
Speaker:Like for suggesting that people might actually be possible to be, you know,
Speaker:being sustainable ask them which school of communism do you mean?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And see what they do.
Speaker:yeah, indeed.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So Marx.
Speaker:Sex to explain social phenomena within any given society, by
Speaker:analyzing the economic activities.
Speaker:It assumes that the form of economic organization and the mode of production
Speaker:influences all other social phenomena, including political institutions
Speaker:and cultural systems and ideologies.
Speaker:So mark says, look at the economic organization, how is
Speaker:the motor production organized?
Speaker:And that will have a huge effect on the rest of society.
Speaker:He says as forces of production improve things like technology, existing
Speaker:forms of organizing become obsolete and hinder further progress, and thus
Speaker:begins an era of social revolution.
Speaker:So, you know, you, we are seeing that in America, for example.
Speaker:So production has moved in terms of manufacturing and in
Speaker:Australia as well offshore.
Speaker:So you've got that rust belt that was a force of production
Speaker:that no longer has a role.
Speaker:And, and they're beginning an era of social revolution.
Speaker:I would submit in terms of voting for Trump was a, an act of revolution.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I I'm, this is I'm interested by this, this idea.
Speaker:Mm-hmm I do think there are probably a number of reasons that
Speaker:get conflated into like, you know, there are a number of reasons.
Speaker:People voted for Trump.
Speaker:Some people who have realized that those were bad some people are just
Speaker:sticking to them, but I definitely, so I definitely agree with the point that
Speaker:they, firstly, those people wanted to hold onto a, a mode of life where we
Speaker:just produced vehicles in the way that we always used to that may be doing a
Speaker:little bit just of a disservice, but, you know, I don't think that's unfair.
Speaker:And
Speaker:they needed to sell their labor and their opportunity to sell their labor was
Speaker:taken away from them with no alternative.
Speaker:Like if people had said to them, guess what?
Speaker:We're not making cars anymore.
Speaker:They'd go down the factory, down the road and make solar panels.
Speaker:They would've been fine, like provided I can sell my labor and, and support myself.
Speaker:But yeah, that was withdrawn.
Speaker:Well, and, and, you know, don't forget that Detroit also, you know, in that area
Speaker:had a, a big crisis in the seventies as well when the, you know, the, the classic
Speaker:American car was this massive gas guzzler.
Speaker:And the Japanese imports just absolutely took the, took them by, by surprise
Speaker:because people wanted cheap economical cars, because it was also the, the
Speaker:kind of the seventies fuel crisis.
Speaker:But I, so I, I, if I'm following your point there, then you know, they have.
Speaker:Seen that economic change in their in their circumstances, not necess.
Speaker:Yeah, not necessarily
Speaker:the economics of the, the capital that has moved those jobs overseas.
Speaker:So they, and therefore those people have decided to rebel and they've rebelled
Speaker:against the, both the go the, the government that they think has enacted
Speaker:those policies or allowed this to occur.
Speaker:And that was in that, that was formed into Hillary Clinton in that particular,
Speaker:that revolting against a system because that, and they saw Trump
Speaker:as being outside of the system.
Speaker:So that, that was the kind of the, the revolutionary part of their action.
Speaker:But I don't think they necessarily understood things.
Speaker:They were just angry and lashing out and said, well, this is not working for me.
Speaker:I'm, I'm voting for something revolutionary, which they
Speaker:saw Trump as being well,
Speaker:because this is where I think we overlap in motives because I think there's also
Speaker:you know, that one of the classic things that capital does it's that cartoon
Speaker:of the king sort of facing an angry mob of people holding pitchforks and
Speaker:Tor and torches, and his advisor says, oh, don't worry, Sarah, all you need
Speaker:to do is just tell that the Pitchfork people, that the torch people want
Speaker:them to take the pitch away from them.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:The, those people were convinced that the Mexicans, the Chinese, the anyone else had
Speaker:stolen their jobs when they hadn't stolen them, the companies had given them away.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And strange, and, and this sort of follows the, the de unionizing process of the
Speaker:government in the, you know, of Reaganism in the eighties, which really worked to,
Speaker:to break up a lot of the power of the unions, which could otherwise had sort
Speaker:of organized the workers to say, hang on.
Speaker:No, it's not the, it's not the fault of some people over there.
Speaker:It's the fault of Defor company.
Speaker:And we are going to pick at its office until we get change.
Speaker:But where I think this also intersects is that that racist view also works
Speaker:for a bunch of, or, you know, a sub, a subset of those people who
Speaker:are also, and Trump is racist.
Speaker:He's quite obviously racist.
Speaker:He's quite obviously sexist.
Speaker:And he makes, you know, makes it a virtue.
Speaker:And so that appealed to a another set of people who are, who were,
Speaker:were happy that finally, they didn't have to put up with actually being
Speaker:nice to people for a change, and they could just be sexist and racist.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:You know, as they
Speaker:wanted to.
Speaker:Mm, yep.
Speaker:I'm just going a bit more angles who was Marx as sort of, co-writer on
Speaker:different things did not support the use of the term Marxism to describe
Speaker:either marks or his own views.
Speaker:He claimed that the term was being abusively used as a rhetorical qualifier
Speaker:by those attempting to cast themselves as the real followers of marks while
Speaker:casting others into different terms.
Speaker:In 1980 in 1882, Engels claimed that marks had criticized, that marks had criticized
Speaker:self-proclaimed Marxist Paul Lafa by arguing that if Lafa Yu's views were
Speaker:considered Marxist, then quote, one thing is certain and that is, I am not a Marxist
Speaker:. So Marx was saying, if this guy says
Speaker:So, so if somebody says, what sort of Marxist say you could say, well, I'm the
Speaker:sort of Marxist he doesn't believe in calling people Marxist cause Marxist Marx
Speaker:himself didn't believe in it.
Speaker:You could, you, you could say I'm, I'm not a Lafa and
Speaker:Marxist.
Speaker:Yes, right.
Speaker:Lemme just let, just scoot on a bit yeah, I've mentioned before that
Speaker:for Marx, it was about the basically society, all constituent features
Speaker:of society, social class, political pyramid ideologies are assumed to
Speaker:stem from the economic activity.
Speaker:So that's a big part for Marx is how is our economy structured?
Speaker:That will then determine a lot of our other factors of our society.
Speaker:And Hmm.
Speaker:And he says it is a little bit reflexive.
Speaker:So in that the base gives rises to the super structure.
Speaker:The newly formed social organizations can then act again upon the
Speaker:base and the super structure.
Speaker:So yes, the economy and the means of production creates lots
Speaker:of these other institutions.
Speaker:There is some interplay going back the other way to some.
Speaker:I'm gonna skip through a little bit of so marks believed that the
Speaker:capitalist bourgeois Z and the economists were promoting what he
Speaker:saw as the lie that the interests of the capitalist and the worker are on.
Speaker:This are one and the same.
Speaker:So he emphasizes the the conflict between the two classes and in pre capitalist
Speaker:economies, exploitation of the work was achieved by physical coercion.
Speaker:Under the capitalist mode of production.
Speaker:Those results are more subtly achieved because workers do not own the means
Speaker:of production and must voluntarily enter into an exploitive work
Speaker:relationship with a capitalist in order to earn the necessities of life.
Speaker:The workers entry into such employment is voluntary in that they choose
Speaker:which capitalist to work for.
Speaker:However, the worker must work or star thus exploitation is inevitable in
Speaker:the voluntary nature of a worker.
Speaker:Participating in a capitalist society is illusionary losery.
Speaker:I mean, in ancient times, people worked their fields and did their stuff on their
Speaker:farms and were largely self-sufficient.
Speaker:If you wanted to do stuff, wanted 'em to do stuff for you, you had to either
Speaker:convince them through force or through payment of some extra means because
Speaker:people wouldn't necessarily want to go anywhere if they didn't have to.
Speaker:But when you don't own yeah.
Speaker:Property, you don't own a self sustaining farm.
Speaker:All you have is your labor to sell.
Speaker:Then you are at the mercy of the system and you, you can't really
Speaker:say no, you have to participate.
Speaker:That's a Marxist theory.
Speaker:Can't argue with it
Speaker:all.
Speaker:I guess the one little caveat that I have there is that it is like short
Speaker:of basically kind of almost getting to just hunter, a gatherers where
Speaker:no one actually owns any property.
Speaker:No one can keep someone out of anywhere and you basically
Speaker:share the, the good and the bad.
Speaker:The it's hard to see a situation if you wanna, like, you know, look
Speaker:at it from the point of view of a, someone must labor or staff, then
Speaker:that's kind of almost true everywhere.
Speaker:You know, so it's hard to imagine short of sort of, you know, man
Speaker:are growing on trees and did our
Speaker:indigenous, our infinite quantities of tower.
Speaker:Did our indigenous brothers and sisters have to labor or star
Speaker:Paul.
Speaker:I, I would argue in some ways that they actually did in that they, that
Speaker:a person that was sent out from the tribe would almost certainly die.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Because they could not hunt enough and gather enough to to make a living.
Speaker:The, the tribe could do that.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And, but, you know, all, I'm kind of like, it's, what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker:It is a situation which is impossible to disprove Until we have a society
Speaker:where there are robots to do all of the menial work and, you know,
Speaker:everything, and everyone basically has food and all of the necessa, the
Speaker:necessities of life mm-hmm provided for.
Speaker:But I you know, like, that's you it's?
Speaker:Well, one of the, one of the things that mark talks about
Speaker:is the alienation of work.
Speaker:So in previous societies, you might be just a peasant on a Lord's farm.
Speaker:You'd have your own little patch where you are producing your own food for yourself.
Speaker:And some of it goes to the Lord and occasionally you're required to do some
Speaker:certain things, but or you might be some craftsman working you know, as a Smithy
Speaker:or, you know, as a, as a craftsperson of something, but peoples were essentially
Speaker:their work or their labor was intimately connected with their, with their lives
Speaker:in a, in a relatively pleasant way.
Speaker:It was, it was work done in the area they lived and it had to be sustainable.
Speaker:And, and as opposed to the work that they perform in the capitalist wage sense,
Speaker:there's a they're disassociated from it.
Speaker:The widget comes along the production line, they whack a nail into it and
Speaker:the widget moves down the production line and they just do it endlessly.
Speaker:And it might be all sorts of things.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So this, this was part of what he was recognizing as the change that had
Speaker:taken place, because people had no ownership of what they were doing.
Speaker:They were alienated from it.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and.
Speaker:I was gonna approach that idea from a, a different different direction, which
Speaker:would be that you know, in those times you could also say that, say a, you know, a
Speaker:Welsh crafter probably could, could grow about 80% of their stuff and maybe they
Speaker:would trade it with the Smith to get a new plow share or the, you know, wheel right.
Speaker:To make a new wagon wheel or things like that.
Speaker:But by and large, you know, both they had, they could directly control
Speaker:production of most of their, their income that fed them and kept them going.
Speaker:And there was no uncertainty about where that would come from.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And who owned the land or things like that.
Speaker:Whereas certainly for the, the, you know, in the 17th and 18th centuries,
Speaker:as the commons becomes increasingly sold off in the UK and other places,
Speaker:and, you know, people are like the, the Highland clearances in Scotland
Speaker:and the, you know, potato feminine, things like that in Ireland.
Speaker:People are both unable to support themselves on their land
Speaker:because it's not their land.
Speaker:Like the potato famine happened because potatoes were really popular.
Speaker:They were cash crop.
Speaker:Normally farmers would grow a range of stuff that would
Speaker:keep their FA families alive.
Speaker:And they were told, no, you can't grow that.
Speaker:You have to grow potatoes so we can sell them to England and we'll pay you.
Speaker:And then you can buy food.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And when the, yeah, I think there's also a problem where the lots
Speaker:got increasingly smaller as well.
Speaker:And potato was a, was a crop that you could produce lots of on a small plot.
Speaker:And if you're trying to generate calories to feed yourself off a
Speaker:small lot, it was, it was probably the best bang for your buck,
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Hard to get a, a small lot to feed you, but yeah.
Speaker:So, you know, I, and, and certainly for the people that were moving to
Speaker:the cities, you know, many of them for the first time, you know, basically in
Speaker:the, the history of their family and they're looking for work and they're
Speaker:like, you know, well, we can get work in factories or we can get we're at work,
Speaker:running errands or being a, you know, a domestic servant or things like that.
Speaker:Those people have no control over where, you know, their, their
Speaker:labor or their, their labor.
Speaker:And they, and I guess you could also say that for a lot of those people,
Speaker:you know, you're producing, I mean, I'm sensitive to this because I produce
Speaker:software that is so completely esoteric in relation to where I get my food from.
Speaker:It's, it's hard to feel like there's a further distance between those two points.
Speaker:So, I don't
Speaker:the, the point that I want to meet on is that I feel like there's,
Speaker:so I've seen it put this way.
Speaker:There's, there are some people that believe that workers hate
Speaker:their jobs and they will do everything possible to avoid them.
Speaker:Unless you.
Speaker:Pay them money and watch them like a Hawk mm-hmm and the, and there is no
Speaker:inva innovation or creativity from them.
Speaker:The, the only thing they're interested in doing is avoiding work.
Speaker:And therefore you have to, as the manager have to pro provide the
Speaker:creativity and tell them what to do, then there's the view that workers
Speaker:actually want to contribute, want to work, want to do good things.
Speaker:But the at, you know, usually there are just a bunch of roadblocks in their path.
Speaker:And if you, you, as a manager can clear them out, then you get great, great
Speaker:value and great performance out of them.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And there's definitely that feeling in in, you know, the Dickensian time
Speaker:that, you know, that you talk about marks starting out in that some of
Speaker:these people are producing silverware that, or, you know, linen cloth that
Speaker:they could never, ever afford to own.
Speaker:Mm-hmm that it is that they are, or, you know, they are servants in an upper
Speaker:class manner where they are never, ever allowed to have anything like that.
Speaker:And so class exists to, so to tell those people, no, you don't get to have that.
Speaker:You get to be down there or at this level.
Speaker:And as long as you can Snee on down on the people that are
Speaker:below you, that you're you're.
Speaker:And that's, and that's a point at which it's really hard to feel like the work
Speaker:you are doing, you know, polishing, endless knife blades, To go on the
Speaker:silverware of the rich and famous is a worthwhile life, you know, mm.
Speaker:Kind of thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So marks would say in your circumstance because of globalization that it's
Speaker:the capitalist owner of whoever you word for is going to hire cheaper.
Speaker:It professionals from China or India or Philippines, or somewhere
Speaker:like that, wherever they can.
Speaker:And that technology's going to improve and wipe out roles that normally
Speaker:perhaps creativeness or, or other human element to to sort of dumb down
Speaker:even more the work that people do.
Speaker:And that there's this tension that capitalism has.
Speaker:And even if you, current employer is a really good group and don't wanna
Speaker:do that, then some venture capitalist is gonna come along and sweep up this
Speaker:company or, you know, and run it along.
Speaker:Those lines though,
Speaker:is, is going
Speaker:to undercut us.
Speaker:So he's, he's big on the, the class tension.
Speaker:He's big on technology taking jobs away people losing high caliber jobs
Speaker:for lower paying ones as a result.
Speaker:And the capitalist always choosing the cheaper option at the expense
Speaker:of the worker, if possible.
Speaker:So that's a Marx is
Speaker:you that's, that's a Marxist queue.
Speaker:And I,
Speaker:which where I think, and, and I guess cycling back to our very
Speaker:beginning in that Dickensian image, he'd seen it happening where people
Speaker:were incredibly cruel to people and said that this is how it happens.
Speaker:And look.
Speaker:I would absolutely argue that we, you know, some of the horror stories of,
Speaker:you know, the gig economy that some of the horror stories of people being
Speaker:fired, you know, by a text message.
Speaker:You know, none of, none of those things have really changed.
Speaker:Mm-hmm I guess where I, I guess, where I'm wondering here is it's always
Speaker:felt to me that marks is picking on a particular behavior and exaggerating
Speaker:that out to explain every part of it.
Speaker:And that's kind of the, that those two theories of that's where I'm
Speaker:thinking of those two theories of how people want to work.
Speaker:And I would generally say most people are somewhere in the
Speaker:middle of those two extremes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm, , I'd my I'd quite happily browse, you know, imager all day, if
Speaker:no one, you know, if I, if I still got paid but on the other hand, I really
Speaker:love my job and I'm really glad that I can contribute my knowledge and skill
Speaker:to, to make, you know, what I hope is the it industry a better place.
Speaker:Mark's, wouldn't doubt somewhere in between those Mark Marks, wouldn't
Speaker:doubt your willingness to contribute.
Speaker:He's not critical of, of, of the labor willing to, to contribute.
Speaker:He's critical of the capitalist taking advantage of them.
Speaker:But I guess he is critical in the sense critical of the proletariat in that he.
Speaker:It seems to me, he's saying that basically that they they're, they're
Speaker:reduced to selling their labor power it's as if that is somehow
Speaker:well, he says yes.
Speaker:In, in meaningless alienated jobs, so, right.
Speaker:And I guess I would, I would wonder there whether say a Smith was
Speaker:a me meaningless alienated job.
Speaker:No, he, he would've seen trades people as having a, a meaningful job.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:A factory worker on a production line at all.
Speaker:What's that a Smith does not produce any food at all.
Speaker:No, he doesn't have to produce food.
Speaker:He has
Speaker:prayed for food, right?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That's not, but he doesn't produce, he doesn't have the means of production,
Speaker:of food, of his, of sustenance.
Speaker:He has to bargain with it and thus he's, but you know, that's
Speaker:where I'm critical of that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Overall view.
Speaker:But he talks about I'm mean visiting J Smith who owns his own workshop, if you
Speaker:like, and he's making stuff and selling it, that, that marks describes that as
Speaker:a valid endeavor and that that person under capitalism, that the workshops
Speaker:disappear, it, it becomes a factory.
Speaker:And that person who was in a community making stuff for the community ends
Speaker:up on a production line, banging rivets into something or, or a, you
Speaker:know, the horseshoes are made in a machine now rather than by hand.
Speaker:So he sees that alienation as a, as an issue.
Speaker:They don't have to be producing food to be As he sees it doing a
Speaker:job that they would get value from, but I'll just move on a little bit.
Speaker:Let me just move on.
Speaker:So there's a few, a bit of terminology, the proletariat.
Speaker:So that's the class of the wage laborers.
Speaker:There's a Lumin proletariat, which is like London, lumping.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Vago Bond's beggars prostitutes.
Speaker:There's the OI Z who own the means of production.
Speaker:And there's the petite, petite, OI Z petite OII.
Speaker:Now this is an interesting one that he came across, that he identified
Speaker:those who work and can afford to buy little labor, power EG EG small
Speaker:business owners and trade workers.
Speaker:Marxism predicts that the continual reinvention of the means of production
Speaker:eventually would destroy the petite bushwa Z degrading them from the
Speaker:middle class to the proletariat.
Speaker:We, I think that's quite insightful.
Speaker:I mean, we all recognize it now, but maybe not so much in Mark's time that,
Speaker:that people who, who were small business trade workers the reinvention of the means
Speaker:of production would destroy that class.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And would degrade
Speaker:them the example of the the Smith yeah.
Speaker:Being replaced by a machine that can make yep.
Speaker:A thousand, you know,
Speaker:horse juice an hour.
Speaker:Well, the one I think of now is radiologists, like apparently now machine
Speaker:learning sort of, scanning of x-rays has reached the point where it's more
Speaker:accurate than the human eye, like running these things through a program now.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is reaching the point where you get a better, more secure result than a
Speaker:trained radiologist, looking at the.
Speaker:That's this is actually well, so, okay.
Speaker:This is really interesting.
Speaker:Yeah, because on the one hand they're also studies that have shown
Speaker:that radiologists are biased, for example, to find something right.
Speaker:Whereas an AI can look at, say a healthy spine and say there's nothing there.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:I heard a really interesting piece of re a research.
Speaker:I can't remember where it was from where they divided people with that came in
Speaker:for complaining to doctors of back pain.
Speaker:Half of them were sent for MRIs.
Speaker:Half of them were sent for x-rays on the basis of that.
Speaker:They looked at their overall health outcomes and they were exactly,
Speaker:basically exactly the same.
Speaker:The people that had MRIs did not statistically get any better, like
Speaker:health wise, they didn't improve health versus the people who had x-rays.
Speaker:But the people who got MRIs were four times more likely to have surgery.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So getting an MRI means your radiographer, who whoever's reading that is more
Speaker:likely to recommend you get surgery for it and you get surgery and it
Speaker:still doesn't cure your back pain.
Speaker:Mm-hmm so that, so on the one hand, the you know, the, the radiographer,
Speaker:I'm not, I, I like, I'm not.
Speaker:Gonna say that all radiographer are bad, but I think that there are biases in
Speaker:human radiographers that it's possible to actually kind of remove out of the the AI
Speaker:system, but all of these things, like, you know, even for the AI assisted radiography
Speaker:you don't go in to the doctor and he just sends it away to the AI and comes
Speaker:back with a result and you go, oh, okay.
Speaker:That's, that's fine.
Speaker:Then no, the radiographer checks it.
Speaker:And so there's a, there's the possibility because there's always the possibility
Speaker:the AI has missed something that a trained radio radiographer will pick up.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And so what you get is the best of both.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:I merely provided as an example of, of how technology can, can take a line,
Speaker:I'm sorry to have very well paying job
Speaker:, but, but you're absolutely right in that,
Speaker:example the work of translators there's, you know, there's some brilliant and
Speaker:beautiful translation of, you know, books from one language to another.
Speaker:But if you imagine, you know, translating something like the works
Speaker:of Shakespeare, just in, through pure machine translation, into a language
Speaker:like Spanish your, we could probably say that a Spaniard would read that and.
Speaker:Wait Shakespeare said this, this doesn't make sense.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Because, you know, and that's something where that's probably
Speaker:putting a lot of trained translators out of a job just simply because
Speaker:we can throw machines at that now.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So, marks anticipated that sort of stuff.
Speaker:So, so that's sort of general what marks said, obviously.
Speaker:I've probably got some of it wrong, but that that's, that's
Speaker:a general starting point.
Speaker:Now I wanna move on to, by the way, we're gonna split this episode.
Speaker:every time you invite me, cause
Speaker:I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be in Sydney week after next.
Speaker:So this, this is gonna be cropped out and put into that one.
Speaker:If you're listening in the chat room, if you're still there yeah, it's gonna
Speaker:be cut out on the podcast and, and zipped across in a couple of weeks.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Why do you read I'm
Speaker:just gonna go Lou again.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah, you do that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You can't find good podcast host with strong bladders these days.
Speaker:Dear listener in the chat room.
Speaker:oh, I was nearly gonna do this solo, Joe.
Speaker:He just gave me a last minute call and said he was working thought,
Speaker:oh, do I wanna do that still solo.
Speaker:Hey James.
Speaker:You're in the chat room.
Speaker:The week beginning, Friday, the 5th of September James.
Speaker:So sorry, week beginning, Monday the fifth.
Speaker:So it would be Friday, the 9th of September.
Speaker:James, are you able to meet at the usual place?
Speaker:Friday night for drinks, the other with the other Sydney
Speaker:patrons or anyone who's listening.
Speaker:If you are listening and you're in Sydney, you're gonna be there Friday night.
Speaker:The 9th of September.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's it at your club?
Speaker:Get in contact and you can meet some interesting people and meet James.
Speaker:He's got a fantastic mustache by the way.
Speaker:So he's still rocking the mustache, James I'm just chatting to the I'm
Speaker:just chatting with the chat room here.
Speaker:James is in the chat room and he's got a great mustache from memory.
Speaker:He also James, right.
Speaker:I believe has listened to every episode cuz when he eventually discovered
Speaker:the podcast, he went through the back catalog and listened to all of the old
Speaker:episodes, which on the one hand is a huge compliment, but he phenomenal, but he
Speaker:did it at like one and a half or double speed, which is quite insulting James, but
Speaker:you think he should have listened it to at the original speed
Speaker:to put in the real effort.
Speaker:That's it?
Speaker:Nine and a half out of 10 James.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Cultural Marxism now.
Speaker:Believe it or not.
Speaker:I reckon the best article I got on this was from eternity news.
Speaker:Strangely curious.
Speaker:Yes, really strange.
Speaker:So, so it's an article that tries to explain cultural Marxism and it's
Speaker:gonna be my starting point and I'll read a bit of this and see how we go
Speaker:in the last decade or two cultural Marxism has become something of a
Speaker:boo hooray word in Western culture.
Speaker:That is it's a term that provokes an almost visceral reaction of either
Speaker:discussed or delight denunciation or celebration from one perspective,
Speaker:the polarized reaction is puzzling cultural Marxism also known as
Speaker:Neo Marxism, libertarian Marxism, existential, Marxism, or Western Marxism.
Speaker:Is a well established term in academic circles and has appeared in the titles
Speaker:of numerous books and articles that treat it either dispassionately or favorably.
Speaker:It seems to refer to a 20th century development in Marxist thought that
Speaker:came to view Western culture as a key source of human oppression.
Speaker:Otherwise put cultural Marxism.
Speaker:Marxism is nothing more than the application of Marxist theory to culture.
Speaker:So why the commotion, the short answer is due to its deployment
Speaker:by people like Jordan Peterson, cultural Marxism has come to function.
Speaker:Speech.
Speaker:Why you said that no cultural Marxism has come to function as
Speaker:shorthand for left wing ideology.
Speaker:I think that's true.
Speaker:If you were listening to Holly Hughes and Senator bait, Babel, whatever he
Speaker:was, it was definitely just cultural.
Speaker:Marxism was shorthand for bloody left wingers.
Speaker:For this reason, many on the left side of the contemporary culture wars, not only
Speaker:here, cultural Marxism as an accusatory snail world snail word, which it often is,
Speaker:but dismiss its validity, others insist that it explains much that is taking
Speaker:place in our current cultural moment.
Speaker:So what are we to make of all this is cultural Marxism, a misnomer.
Speaker:Is it antisemitic conspiracy theory, or is it an accurate way of describing
Speaker:a real ideology that is making a very real impact on our world?
Speaker:So to answer these questions, we begin with the Italian Marxist philosopher
Speaker:and Antonio Gramsci born in CDIA 1891 to a working class family.
Speaker:At age 22, he joined the socialist party roast prominence.
Speaker:Then in the communist party, after Maza had consolidated his power.
Speaker:Graham.
Speaker:She was arrested, charged with attempting to undermine the
Speaker:Italian state thrown in jail.
Speaker:And he was released some eight years later in a very weakened
Speaker:state and died shortly afterwards.
Speaker:But while he was in prison for those eight years, he wrote a lot and he
Speaker:had a lot of time to think, I guess.
Speaker:So the prison notebooks, as they were called have come to have a profound
Speaker:effect on subsequent generations.
Speaker:So while in prison, gramsy turned his mind to the question that haunted
Speaker:classical Marxism, why hadn't Marxist predictions worked out in practice.
Speaker:Why, for example, hadn't the Russian revolution of 1917 replicated itself
Speaker:in other Western European nations, the answer Graham, she believed lay in the
Speaker:persistence of capitalist ideas embedded in the institutions of civil society,
Speaker:PG the family, the church trade union's education system, all the consensus,
Speaker:creating elements of society that are independent of political society.
Speaker:So things like the police, the army, the legal system.
Speaker:So he said that this required a major rethink of Marx's philosophy.
Speaker:See Marx was working on, if you remember dear list, now that you
Speaker:gotta look at the it's the economy stupid almost what is the economy?
Speaker:How is that structured?
Speaker:That is going to determine how the society and its institutions form and grimey
Speaker:was saying, well, what we've really gotta do is changed those institutions.
Speaker:And then we'll be able to change the way of the means
Speaker:of production and the economy.
Speaker:So it was, that was the, the theory of, of.
Speaker:Graham sheet.
Speaker:And essentially people on the right are saying this guy, Graham sheet,
Speaker:and this conspiracy of taking over our institutions, our academic world, our
Speaker:political class, our, our name, other institutions turning them into left wing.
Speaker:Rabel that was this conspiracy recommended by Graham.
Speaker:She, as a means to then having got control of the levers of society
Speaker:and the society's institutions, see where you're going here, this, then
Speaker:at that point, you can then change the means of production if you like.
Speaker:So, so that's what people talk about at one level of cultural Marxism is, is
Speaker:really gram she's flipping of Marxism.
Speaker:It's kind of the opposite in a sense, cuz Marx was saying economy
Speaker:drives the institutions gram.
Speaker:She was saying, well, that didn't work.
Speaker:I've spent eight years in prison thinking about it.
Speaker:The reason it didn't work was because the rich and powerful, controlled
Speaker:the institutions and they therefore weren't gonna change anything.
Speaker:So we need to control those institutions in order to
Speaker:change the means of production.
Speaker:And I have
Speaker:to say, I would think it
Speaker:was both you'd think well maybe Paul, but that, that is cultural
Speaker:Marxism as understood by many people is an almost gramsy conspiracy
Speaker:to take over these institutions.
Speaker:Now, does this sound familiar to you at all?
Speaker:Does this, does this sound at all?
Speaker:Think of a group that wants to take over the institutions of society, maybe
Speaker:planting seeds of people who will do the right thing, maybe in seven mountains,
Speaker:at all for those listeners that aren't enjoying the video feed.
Speaker:Trevor is smiling.
Speaker:like this to
Speaker:me.
Speaker:Well, this, because this is basically the, you know, like it's just
Speaker:projection, of course, the, the right.
Speaker:Want to tell, tell people how like Holly Hughes wants to tell people how
Speaker:terrible it is that the Marxists are taking over their, our schools because
Speaker:they want to take over our schools.
Speaker:Mm-hmm, that's where you're going.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:well, well, if they're Christian evangelicals, they
Speaker:wanna take over the schools.
Speaker:So I, I don't know, I'd have to look more closely, but it seems to me that
Speaker:the, the seven mountains mandate where we have to seed people and take control
Speaker:of these seven critical factors of society was almost a copy of Graham
Speaker:she's inversion of Marxist theory.
Speaker:So it was almost a Christian version of cultural Marxism where they you've
Speaker:got two different groups recognizing you've gotta control the institutions.
Speaker:If you want to control society, the means of production,
Speaker:isn't gonna change on its own.
Speaker:And for Christians, our moral sort of code, isn't gonna change on its own
Speaker:without controlling those institutions.
Speaker:Well, yes, the, and, but also the institutions won't
Speaker:change if the capital resists.
Speaker:This is why, for example, the Christian Church, like the Catholic church is a,
Speaker:you know, a vast money empire because, you know, in part they have realized that
Speaker:they, they can wield power using money.
Speaker:They do not give that away.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:But, but these things set culture.
Speaker:So our media and our political class, our education class, the, these
Speaker:people set the agenda and the culture.
Speaker:So, yeah, I, I think Gramsci is right.
Speaker:I think the seven mountains are right.
Speaker:It's a, it,
Speaker:I'm kind of reminded though here of, I can't remember who said it, but the
Speaker:phrase that history has a left bias that the ideas of equality and fairness to,
Speaker:you know, can't put a better word on it.
Speaker:Tend to come through in the end.
Speaker:And they are actively resisted by both the money who don't want to
Speaker:see their, their loss of money and the powerful in the institutions who
Speaker:don't want to see their loss of power.
Speaker:And cuz I'm also kind of reminded like, you know, the list you gave
Speaker:there, it's not really surprising that the the people who own media
Speaker:companies are also very rich people.
Speaker:And guess what, you know, we, we started the episode talking about How, you
Speaker:know, the Rupert Murdoch and Locklin Murdoch control a vast empire, which
Speaker:is also putting out an and ideology about who to vote for and who is right,
Speaker:and who is wrong in, in politics.
Speaker:If, if you want an proletariat revolution, you're gonna have to get
Speaker:control of these social institutions in order to inform and motivate and
Speaker:educate your proletariat to, to revolt.
Speaker:So I'll just read a bit more of this article, just so
Speaker:and get through some of it.
Speaker:So, yep.
Speaker:So gramsy believed that marks was sort of back to front.
Speaker:Otherwise put culture is not downstream from economics, but
Speaker:economics is downstream from culture.
Speaker:That's the grimy view.
Speaker:The significance of this inversion of classical Marxism is profound.
Speaker:What it means is that if you want to change the economic structure of
Speaker:society, you must first change the cultural institutions that socialize
Speaker:people into believing and behaving.
Speaker:According to the dictates of the capitalist system.
Speaker:The only way to do this is by cutting the roots of Western
Speaker:civilization in particular.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:Now this is an article from eternity.
Speaker:Remember society in particular, it's Judeo Christian values for these supposedly
Speaker:are what provide the capitalist root system in short, unless than until
Speaker:Western culture is de Christianized.
Speaker:Western society will never be de recapitalized.
Speaker:So in the Christian world, and you do see this with different Christian
Speaker:commentators, a very big on the cultural Marxism snarly word as much
Speaker:as sky and, and and the Australian and that you it's a, it's a common
Speaker:word in Christian commentary circles because they see cultural Marxism.
Speaker:As replacing the, the Christian backbone of society.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And I'll just read on a bit how might this be accomplished by an army
Speaker:of Marx intellectuals undertaking?
Speaker:What was later called the long March through the institutions of power
Speaker:that is by gradually colonizing and ultimately controlling all the key
Speaker:institutions of civil society as grams, you put it in the new order, socialism
Speaker:will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools,
Speaker:universities, churches, and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.
Speaker:So, so the key thing I reckon out of all this so far is that when
Speaker:people talk about cultural Marxism, it's actually gramsy Marxism.
Speaker:It's actually kind of the opposite of Marx because Marx is all about
Speaker:the economy first society second.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:There's a little bit of interplay between the two, but really at this
Speaker:point, cultural Marxism insofar as it adopts scree is really already
Speaker:taken a long hike from where Marx was.
Speaker:I, I think they're both aiming.
Speaker:They're, they're both aiming at the, the same, cause they're, there's, they're
Speaker:saying that the rich and powerful let's just conflate those two for the moment.
Speaker:Want to keep the rest of us poor and profit off our labor and would just
Speaker:displace us in the second, if they could.
Speaker:And in Marx's terms, the correct solution to that is revolution.
Speaker:Like armed revolution.
Speaker:And in Grimey's case, in gram Grimey's view, the correct solution to that
Speaker:is change the culture so that those people do not have power anymore.
Speaker:And I think
Speaker:Graham, she, like, I would certainly say that Graham she's plan there is better
Speaker:because revolution is usually bloody
Speaker:and I'm not.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm not sure whether Grahams she denies a revolution.
Speaker:I'm not sure I'd have to read more.
Speaker:It's possible.
Speaker:He's saying that you control the institutions in order to
Speaker:create, allow the revolution.
Speaker:It can't happen without that.
Speaker:I'm not sure if he's denying a, still a revolution of sorts.
Speaker:I'm not sure.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:okay.
Speaker:Then, then the, the difference we're talking about is between an armed
Speaker:revolution and a, if you'll forgive me for using the term cultural revolution.
Speaker:No, no.
Speaker:The difference is Marx is saying it's the economy and doesn't really pay attention
Speaker:to a takeover of the institutions, Graham.
Speaker:She is saying you have to take over the institutions infiltrate.
Speaker:I, well, I disagree there because I think marks specifically talks about
Speaker:the things like the, the legal system being part of the system of oppression.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:It is, you know, I'm really kind of reminded as well in the time
Speaker:of marks the, that parliament was pushed usually by the rich.
Speaker:In the UK to enact harsher and harsher penalties against property,
Speaker:you know, like theft of property.
Speaker:And that's why Australia became a penal colony and that's why
Speaker:America became a pen colony.
Speaker:And then they realized that actually the Americans had a bit too much and
Speaker:they decided to revolt you know, the because though the law was being used,
Speaker:enact the will of the rich, the rich happened to also control things like
Speaker:the private schooling or the public schools as the, as I'm sure Joe would
Speaker:say the, they controlled what was acceptable art and, you know, cartoonists
Speaker:like Hogarth who was published in papers were sort of considered barely
Speaker:acceptable because they mocked the rich whereas, you know, Turner and, you know,
Speaker:can't think of another, with lovely
Speaker:little landscape scenes.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Something you can, you can, or, you know, portrait artists, you know,
Speaker:we're all the rage because well, everyone needs their own portrait done.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:So I, I feel like mark still recognizes those things as being
Speaker:driven, like as, as being used as means of oppressant oppression.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:He does.
Speaker:Where and I,
Speaker:where I guess I would agree with your summaries that Graham.
Speaker:She thinks they come from the culture in which one exists and marks thinks they
Speaker:comes, come from who owns the money.
Speaker:That gets to say how things exist.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:no.
Speaker:And I would say they're
Speaker:absolutely related.
Speaker:No, I don't think they differ on that.
Speaker:I just think they say that mark says that Graham, she says marks didn't work.
Speaker:The revolution didn't happen.
Speaker:Why?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's because because the control of the institutions, so they derive
Speaker:in the same way they don't deny.
Speaker:I don't think they deny how these things, I think he's
Speaker:ignoring the French revolution.
Speaker:Who is Grandhi
Speaker:where the peasants did actually revolt and managed to kill off a
Speaker:large section of the upper class.
Speaker:What year was the
Speaker:French revolution was?
Speaker:Trying to think
Speaker:17 somethings.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:1780
Speaker:seems cause he was 1891.
Speaker:He was born crampon yeah.
Speaker:So, well he's looking at,
Speaker:because I, I, because I would also say that, you know, E even as, as
Speaker:the thank you, James says 1789.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:E even as the 1917 Russian revolution proved you can have a revolt, all you
Speaker:li all you like, and what you do is swap one set of dictators for another, because
Speaker:the whole system of Russian society accepted that there are people in power.
Speaker:That are given ultimate authority and the rest of you bow down to them.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And whether, whether it's communism or Marxism Leninism, or whether it's,
Speaker:you know, bizarres same process.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Was the French revolution, a revolution against capitalism or more of a, of
Speaker:a French monarchy that had, it was a,
Speaker:well, it was a revolution against the French monarchy and the upper class who
Speaker:owned all the money or owned all of the estate you know, had the, the apocryphal,
Speaker:let them eat cake, attitude and kept the peasantry poor because they, that
Speaker:basically, you know, kept them in a perpetual state of needing money, you
Speaker:know, needing to work, to produce money
Speaker:for the rich.
Speaker:What was, was France in an industrialized state at that
Speaker:point in the French revolution?
Speaker:Were we look that's for homework?
Speaker:Let's let's let's, let's put that down for homework, cuz I need to
Speaker:get through a little bit more.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But I take all your points there.
Speaker:Cause that is good point.
Speaker:Like if Granty says these revolutions don't work, unless you control the
Speaker:institutions, then you could say we, the French revolutions, so good point.
Speaker:But grant, she was not alone in thinking along these lines, which
Speaker:brings us to the Frankfurt school.
Speaker:So the origins of the Frankfurt school can be traced to 1923 Frankfurt,
Speaker:Germany, a Marxist think tank and research center modeled after the
Speaker:Marx angles Institute in Moscow.
Speaker:So the early work was classically Marxist in its direction,
Speaker:but this all changed in 1930.
Speaker:When max AER took over as director and moved it in a neo-Marxist
Speaker:direction, hopefully at this point, everybody's got an idea of
Speaker:classical Marxist and neo-Marxist
Speaker:traditional old school Marxism as we call
Speaker:it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like Grimsey a kinder was convinced that the major obstacle to human
Speaker:liberation was the capitalist ideology embedded in traditional Western culture.
Speaker:That fundamentally what was needed, exposing, criticizing, and changing.
Speaker:The aim was to produce a new synthesized form of Marxism that would do that job,
Speaker:that classical Marxism failed to do radically transform Western culture.
Speaker:And so help pav the way for a communist utopia.
Speaker:So again, the Frankfurt school is talking about a new synthesized form
Speaker:of Marxism that classical Marxism failed to do so, even if you are
Speaker:a follower of the Marxist of the Frankfurt school, you kind of admittedly
Speaker:deviating away from classical Marxism.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So 1933 Nazis came to power members of the Frankfurt school
Speaker:hightailed it to the United States, ended up in Columbia university.
Speaker:Didn't return to Frankfurt till 1951.
Speaker:And what did they do?
Speaker:At the Frankfurt school, what was their major achievement and their
Speaker:major achievement was critical theory.
Speaker:Glad we've got to that point, a form of incisive.
Speaker:Now this is not critical race theory in any way, quite separate.
Speaker:If that's what you are, think.
Speaker:It it's it's where
Speaker:separate it's where critical race theory comes from.
Speaker:This is the thought okay.
Speaker:The chief collective enterprise of the Frankfurt schools of the development
Speaker:of critical theory, a form of incisive social critique aimed at undermining
Speaker:the status quo in the hope of changing society for the better critical
Speaker:theory is opposed to traditional theory, which traditional theory is
Speaker:all about just explaining society.
Speaker:Critical theory is a essentially negative exercise.
Speaker:Let me just try and get the best summary of it here.
Speaker:I guess I would say critical theory is asking what is the best
Speaker:thing that we are looking at?
Speaker:Not, not a, you know, so if, if we're looking at society,
Speaker:traditional theory says, okay, well, how did that all come about?
Speaker:Critical theory says, okay, what of, what of all of that is the best way?
Speaker:What, what can we put together out of all of that that makes it the best society
Speaker:be a Wikipedia summary,
Speaker:izing, the good, you know, the things in our current society or current
Speaker:system in order to get to something
Speaker:better.
Speaker:Mm-hmm . So according to Wikipedia, CRI critical theory is not to be confused with
Speaker:critical thinking or critical race theory.
Speaker:Critical theory is any approach to social philosophy that focuses on critique
Speaker:of society and culture to reveal and challenge power structures underlined
Speaker:mm-hmm it argues that social problems stem more from social structures.
Speaker:And cultural assumptions then from individuals.
Speaker:It argues that ideology is the principle obstacle to human liberation.
Speaker:So, so, let me just get back to this article of sort of, I
Speaker:feel like what I kind of compatible
Speaker:with that.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Not slightly an emphasis on structures.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Let me just see here.
Speaker:So assessing the work of the URT school is not simple.
Speaker:The school was neither uniform nor fixed in its but it did seem to
Speaker:have a clear and unwavering object.
Speaker:And that was to identify the economic and social structures that had been
Speaker:created by industrial capitalism and to critique the ideas that defended
Speaker:the disparities of class and race.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The general consensus of the Frankfurt school members was that
Speaker:Western civilization was effectively responsible for all the manifestations
Speaker:of aggression, oppression, racism, slavery, classism, and sexism, that
Speaker:marked post-industrial society.
Speaker:And this author of this eternity article says that was a simplistic
Speaker:and indefensible misrepresentation.
Speaker:So anyway, the Frankfurt school critical of Western civilization, Particularly
Speaker:concerned with looking at structures and that was their contribution
Speaker:to cultural Marxism, if you like.
Speaker:So still on this article so there's a bit of a conspiracy theory then there
Speaker:are numerous cultural Marxist conspiracy theories, especially surrounding the
Speaker:Frank FITT school, some superficially plausible others, patently laughable.
Speaker:So, so this is again, gets to where people of the right leaning sort of talk about
Speaker:this conspiracy of people to take over the institutions, remembering Graham.
Speaker:She was about that and remembering Frankfurt school was about institutions.
Speaker:And I think the Frankfurt school had a few European Jews in there as well.
Speaker:And yeah, the idea of the Jews controlling the world and that being a bad thing and
Speaker:doing it secretly and wanting to oppose that that's all very much sort of right.
Speaker:Wing conspiracy, slightly antisemitic sort of stuff.
Speaker:That's quite appealing to some fairly ugly elements in society.
Speaker:So, so some of this blow back against cultural Marxism will also be held
Speaker:in circles of sort of fascist right wing flag, waving people, Paul.
Speaker:Who are nationalist and very distrustful of things like a Jewish conspiracy cabal
Speaker:who are planning to take over the world.
Speaker:So like all these things probably at this stage are sounding very hazy, but
Speaker:a lot of it is hazy cuz there's lots of different people involved and, and
Speaker:their thoughts are not always homogenous.
Speaker:Just like our indigenous brothers.
Speaker:But but yeah, so that's all part of this cultural Marxism Sali world
Speaker:word is an element of antisemitism against a Jewish conspiracy.
Speaker:Take that into account as part of all this.
Speaker:Well, the one thing that I think is particularly notable about the, the
Speaker:sort of Jewish, the antisemitic element there is that it's directed as a lot
Speaker:of antisemitism has been directed in the past at the Jews as a money delete.
Speaker:But the, and the convenience there, I think for the defense to use antisemitism
Speaker:in the service of conservatism and say republicanism is that it allows them to
Speaker:say, oh, don't mind us with our hundred million dollars or our billion dollars.
Speaker:You know, it's George Soros over there.
Speaker:Who's the real bad guy.
Speaker:You know, you think you are angry at, at Mo you know, at billionaires
Speaker:like Donald Trump, but wait till you see what these guys are doing.
Speaker:and it, you know, surprisingly enough, it never gets directed.
Speaker:You know, it, it's never like it, it, that antisemitism isn't directed at
Speaker:the people in the same category, like the it's so how to put it, sorry.
Speaker:The people that are the, the, the non-Jewish billionaires are now have a way
Speaker:of pointing direct, you know, you know, attention away from themselves rather than
Speaker:accepting that, like, they, they, they'd be very quick to point out that it's, you
Speaker:know, not all billionaires are Jewish, but it's the Jewish billionaire that happens
Speaker:to be the one that you need to hate.
Speaker:Do you, do you see where I'm coming from?
Speaker:Well, you you're saying people are doing that or not.
Speaker:I,
Speaker:I would say I, I I'm saying it would be a persuasive argument.
Speaker:I don't have any evidence that people are actually, if you're
Speaker:putting that.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:If you're a Gentile, billionaire, and you're copying a bit of
Speaker:heat, you'd say, look over there.
Speaker:Jewish billionaire yeah, cultural Marxist, cultural Marxist.
Speaker:Yeah, one final thing I'm gonna finish up.
Speaker:There's a last little article.
Speaker:So is this an issue is cultural Marxism.
Speaker:I mean, I've quoted Holly Hughes and this other guy there's an
Speaker:article from the conversation.
Speaker:Cultural Marxism is a term favored by those on the right, who argue
Speaker:that the humanities are hopelessly out of touch with ordinary a.
Speaker:The criticism is that radical voices have captured the humanities stifling
Speaker:free speech on campuses, but is cultural Marxism actually taking over our
Speaker:universities and academic thinking, using a leading academic database.
Speaker:I crunch some numbers to find out in so far as it goes beyond
Speaker:a fairly broad term of en entity.
Speaker:The accuses of cultural Marx is in point to two main protagonists
Speaker:Anton, Antonio, Grahams, she and the Frankfurt school of social research,
Speaker:two things we just talked about.
Speaker:So, if there was a lot of talk about if the, if the conservative anxiety is about
Speaker:cultural Marxism reflected reality, we would expect to see academic publications
Speaker:on marks Graham, she and the what'd I say, the the Frankfurt school and
Speaker:you'd see more of that then libertarian liberal or conservative voices.
Speaker:So this person did a quantitative research on the academic database,
Speaker:J store J S T O R, where all the academic articles hang out.
Speaker:If you pay a fee, you can get to 'em and did a search tracking the frequency
Speaker:of names and key ideas in articles published between 1980 and 2019.
Speaker:And if you're a patron of this podcast, you can look at the show
Speaker:notes and in summary, guess what?
Speaker:There's not a huge number of articles about marks or Ramsey or the Frankfurt
Speaker:school in comparison to other right wing thinkers and philosophers.
Speaker:It's not like they're pumping out material left, right.
Speaker:And center.
Speaker:So it's a fairy to describe this as a major takeover of academic circles,
Speaker:at least based on what papers they're producing from the universities.
Speaker:That's an interesting way of analyzing it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's a, a, a clever rebuttal that will appeal to the people that already believed
Speaker:that academics are doing the right thing.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:The I was also thinking when you were talking about that
Speaker:of an interview by, with a guy called Bo, so who is B E a U S O?
Speaker:He is he has won the world debating championship.
Speaker:He's coached the Australian and Harvard debating teams.
Speaker:He's written a couple of books on debating and basically how we can
Speaker:learn from debating, how to kind of argue better and get on better.
Speaker:And he was asked about that the sort of cancel culture and, you know, people
Speaker:being denied the right to, you know, debate, unpalatable ideas at universities.
Speaker:And he said, the one point that he said we should not debate on is
Speaker:the relative worth of other people.
Speaker:We can argue in debating all we like for the speed limit should be raised
Speaker:or lowered or that the immigration.
Speaker:Rate in Australia should be raised or lowered or whatever.
Speaker:What we can't argue for is it, it, we, what we can't do is have a debate on say
Speaker:women are inferior species one again, and
Speaker:why can't we have that debate?
Speaker:Because anyone on the so to kind of make this example, if a woman is on the
Speaker:against team, then the four team part of the four team's argument is that
Speaker:that woman on the AGA the against team does not have the right to say that.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So they're just not necessarily an inferior human being and they
Speaker:shouldn't even be on this debating
Speaker:team.
Speaker:So as a matter of debating principles of organization, don't set up topics.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like that, where there's gonna be a personal reflection on a participant.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That makes sense.
Speaker:And
Speaker:problem is that a lot of the, the point is that a lot of the people that are being
Speaker:canceled by cancel culture and all that sort of stuff are people who are arguing
Speaker:that Jews, or, you know, foreigners or whoever are not equal people.
Speaker:Mm-hmm . And that's why the argument about them being debated on campus is invalid.
Speaker:You know, that, that we should not actually be it's.
Speaker:Kind of saying,
Speaker:you know, if someone kind of his justification for canceling these people,
Speaker:that was his reason why we shouldn't treat that the canceling of those
Speaker:lectures as a kind of blow to free
Speaker:speech.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Does that mean then we shouldn't have a debate on communism because in the,
Speaker:one of the participants is a communist?
Speaker:No,
Speaker:because you're still unless you, unless your argument is that I'm or
Speaker:so I think it really comes down to inherent traits probably.
Speaker:So if the, if you can't have a debate about a topic that is
Speaker:refers to inherent characteristics, that some people might have
Speaker:sure.
Speaker:But even, you know, say a debate that might take the topic that
Speaker:religion has no basis, sorry.
Speaker:Let's like you could debate religion has no basis in modern society.
Speaker:You can't debate people who believe in religions are flawed human
Speaker:beings.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:This is what he was saying as a, his theories on setting up debates.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, so when, you know, if, if we had, you know, and even then I would
Speaker:argue that the problem with a lot of those, you know, the, the right wing
Speaker:people that have been canceled, so to speak and are all sort of, you know,
Speaker:oh, this is cancel culture gone mad.
Speaker:They're not intending to have a valid debate where, where you get given aside
Speaker:beforehand, That you don't like randomly basically you get told whether you
Speaker:are supporting or against the motion and you have to debate it and then you
Speaker:debate it with someone of basically equal caliber and then, you know, an
Speaker:adjudicator or an audience decides they are, these, these events are one
Speaker:person standing up telling all of those people why they should hate the Jews.
Speaker:And there's no, there's, you know, not even a pretense of there being a sort
Speaker:of counter example or, you know, let's hear, you know, there there's, you know,
Speaker:look, I agree.
Speaker:We don't wanna hear bad ideas.
Speaker:We don't wanna promote just shit.
Speaker:Dunno about his theories of, because there might be someone in the audience
Speaker:who's, you know, of that characteristic.
Speaker:I dunno about that, but we just don't wanna waste time.
Speaker:Like we, if somebody said I'm a flat earth and I wanna give a talk at the university
Speaker:of Queensland, like university should say piss off, like not wasting our time.
Speaker:We're just not wasting time with you.
Speaker:So yeah.
Speaker:Hey, let's just try and wrap up Paul.
Speaker:So, so yeah, there we go.
Speaker:Cultural Marxism, I reckon, after going through that exercise, I feel
Speaker:better when I see cultural Marxism in a reference in our society at this point.
Speaker:If I see it from a one nation politician in parliament, I
Speaker:will think to myself, Hmm.
Speaker:Maybe a little bit of antisemitic, sort of nationalism creeping in there.
Speaker:Maybe that conspiracy level thinking.
Speaker:Might be in there don't know, but just flag it as a possibility.
Speaker:When I see Holly Hughes do it, I would think knows nothing about Marx probably
Speaker:knows nothing of the differences between classical Marxism and Marx and between
Speaker:Neo cultural, Marxism and classical Marxism, just, just doesn't know.
Speaker:And I would often see it as some sort of attempt to shut down people
Speaker:using a, a snarly word and saying cultural Marxist beware can be
Speaker:dismissed without further discussion.
Speaker:So, so yeah, feel free to listen at or fight back if you are a classical
Speaker:Marxist or a, or, or whatever, but at least be tell me your discussions.
Speaker:If you end up having a discussion with somebody about cultural Marxism
Speaker:as a result of this podcast at any time, if it happens next week
Speaker:or next year, just let me know.
Speaker:I'd be quite interested what happens.
Speaker:So
Speaker:I, I think it's a, like on the one hand, I think you've done a great service
Speaker:to people by actually giving a good rounded summary of where these things
Speaker:come from and, and how they're made up.
Speaker:I'd also encourage listeners to not fall for the, the, the sort
Speaker:of not fall for the bullshit.
Speaker:Someone, you know, criticizing, you know, left, you know, education
Speaker:institutions as being too woke is just, it's just a snail word.
Speaker:It's just a, a red flag.
Speaker:We, we should, we shouldn't debate them on exactly what they mean by
Speaker:woke or exactly how does their, their policy mean their work.
Speaker:We should just say no, you're just making that up to have an argument.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:We should, we should push back on people who say you know, the, their Marxists
Speaker:just want to, you know, teach their ideas in schools and say, well, you
Speaker:want to teach your ideas in schools.
Speaker:What are you a right wing conservative.
Speaker:So you want to tell us your, you know, you want to, you want to preach your
Speaker:religion, not their religion and, and that, because, you know, it's,
Speaker:it's, it's that bullshit problem.
Speaker:You know, we, we end up debating whether or not the pro the, their,
Speaker:their stupid proposition is valid rather than just at the out, say outset
Speaker:saying, no, that's a stupid proposition and we're not gonna debate it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Well, your listener, give me some feedback on that one.
Speaker:If you end up using any of this stuff and a dinner party conversation,
Speaker:I would be, I'd be keen to know.
Speaker:I'd love that.
Speaker:Darn it's cultural Marxism for dinner tonight.
Speaker:That's it?
Speaker:all right.
Speaker:Well, you know what good on you in the chat room.
Speaker:There's still five people there.
Speaker:So, James, I reckon you're probably one of, 'em not sure, but anyway this whole
Speaker:cultural Marxism segment is gonna be chopped out of the audio version and
Speaker:will appear in the audio version in a couple of weeks when I'm in Sydney,
Speaker:I think is probably what I'll do.
Speaker:That's the plan at this stage.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Thanks Paul.
Speaker:For your efforts.
Speaker:Thanks in the chat room.
Speaker:And we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker:Bye for now.
Speaker:Hey James.
Speaker:Have fun season.
Speaker:You don't think that the people will rise up, if they don't like something, then
Speaker:go and have a, you know, go and stand in front of the anti-vax crowd and tell
Speaker:them to go back into their miserable.
Speaker:Ho yeah.
Speaker:Good luck to you.
Speaker:You got an early start tomorrow.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:of course.
Speaker:normal start normal, normal 6:00 AM.
Speaker:So very
Speaker:good.
Speaker:All I better.
Speaker:I just punish myself for this.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:I will run this through an editor and whatever, so.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:No worries, Paul.
Speaker:Thanks for, thanks for all that chat to you.
Speaker:Another time.
Speaker:No worries.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Have
Speaker:fun.
Speaker:See you soon.
Speaker:Bye
