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Episode 349 - Rules Based Order
The West wants to maintain the "Rules Based Order' because "International Law" can sometimes be inconvenient.
Plus Douglas Murray defends Western Civilisation and Trevor argues Murray's sweet accent distracts from what is mostly straw-manning of the Left.
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Now
Speaker:we're back.
Speaker:Dear listener.
Speaker:I don't know what time it is for you.
Speaker:Well, what day the Joe and I, it's still the 25th of July.
Speaker:If anything really important happened in the world.
Speaker:Since then, we're not going to talk about it, cause this was prerecorded.
Speaker:And last time we spoke basically outlining what's going on in
Speaker:the world and in the sense of.
Speaker:We talked about inflation and interest rates and basically the working class
Speaker:being screwed with, by just being frozen while profits have been skyrocketing.
Speaker:No talk about attacking profits.
Speaker:It's all about wages and still hitching our wagon to the U S empire.
Speaker:Despite the fact that they're a bunch of bastards and.
Speaker:That they're in decline and they're going to get us into more trouble
Speaker:than they're going to save us from, but we're still doing it anyway.
Speaker:And so, yeah, that was last week in a nutshell.
Speaker:And what took about now a bit more still on foreign relations and stuff like that.
Speaker:And there's still a lot of rhetoric about China, those nasty
Speaker:Chinese bloody communists, no way.
Speaker:I can't say that.
Speaker:Can you joke?
Speaker:I mean, the bastards went and created a market economy.
Speaker:It makes it really difficult to talk about them as communist,
Speaker:but it's a command economy or control economy or it's dictated from the
Speaker:top.
Speaker:Isn't it?
Speaker:Oh, it's of it is bits of it are like, you know, the banking system is
Speaker:still controlled by the government.
Speaker:But, how many I was going to say loaves of bread, but really how many
Speaker:bowls of rice abide in, in a major city, it's all based on the market.
Speaker:It's a market economy, but with government influence in sectors where it thinks it
Speaker:should influence the sector, but lots of things are still open to the market.
Speaker:It's difficult to mind time.
Speaker:The argument of being a communist country when it's yeah.
Speaker:When it's running the way it is, and this is the problem for people wanting
Speaker:to create a cold war environment in same as bloody Chinese communists.
Speaker:So what the rhetoric rhetoric is important when it comes to China, like
Speaker:you've got to read between the lines and the words that are being used
Speaker:when talking about China, because.
Speaker:The Chinese are quite clever in keeping themselves clean in many
Speaker:cases and not open to criticism.
Speaker:So the west tester struggle a bit defined wise of accusing them, of being bad guys.
Speaker:So rather than saying communists, now, you'll see a lot of
Speaker:talk about authoritarian.
Speaker:Governments is the new word.
Speaker:So you'll hear them far more likely that bloody Chinese they're so authoritarian
Speaker:rather than they're so communist.
Speaker:So
Speaker:what were any of the economies though?
Speaker:Come in.
Speaker:I mean, under the Soviet union was really communist again, it
Speaker:was a essentially controlled
Speaker:oligarchy.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Probably in the early days, you know?
Speaker:Then almost telling people what to produce the thought.
Speaker:Yay.
Speaker:Cause I think I remember a story about some ration being
Speaker:in London, slight surprise that there was bread on the shelves.
Speaker:And how do you guys calculate how much bread you're gonna need?
Speaker:And it's like, well, the market does it automatically.
Speaker:So certainly certainly that's one word you're gonna look, when
Speaker:you're reading stuff about China, particularly when it's being criticized.
Speaker:I reckon you're going to see more of the word authoritarian or authoritarian
Speaker:regime, then you will communist that.
Speaker:Here's the other words that you're going to see is you're going to
Speaker:talk, you're going to hear a lot of talk about the rules based order and
Speaker:Morrison was big about this, and it's a phrase that's being used more and
Speaker:more about how the west is concerned with maintaining the rules based on.
Speaker:And I'm going to really examine that over this next 20 minutes or so.
Speaker:So it's nuanced and it's interesting.
Speaker:So by way of background a few weeks, so this is from the John Menergy blog.
Speaker:Albanese joy, nighttime leaders in Madrid for what was billed as the
Speaker:most important summit in generation.
Speaker:The first time in its history, it was attended by leaders of four key us allies
Speaker:in the Asia Pacific region, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and South Korea,
Speaker:where a NATO meeting, the message was clear there, the summit would direct
Speaker:most of its venom against Russia.
Speaker:China would not be spared and there was a declaration issued by members.
Speaker:Explicitly excused accused China of challenging night I's interests,
Speaker:security, and values, and it accused China of seeking to quote, undermine
Speaker:the rules-based international order.
Speaker:The denunciation of China assumed vitriolic proportions in the much heralded
Speaker:nighttime strategic concept, which is a wording that was adopted at the summit.
Speaker:Here's what I said about.
Speaker:So here's what nighttime Australia, New Zealand, Japan
Speaker:and South Korea said about China.
Speaker:The people's Republic of China's malicious hybrid and cyber operations
Speaker:in its confrontational rhetoric and disinformation targets, allies
Speaker:and harms Alliance security.
Speaker:The PRC seeks to control key technological and industrial
Speaker:sectors, critical infrastructure and strategic materials and supply chain.
Speaker:What's wrong with my head.
Speaker:I think the people's Republic of China seeks to control
Speaker:technological and industrial sectors.
Speaker:Critical infrastructure is strategic materials and supply chains.
Speaker:That's what countries do if they can, like, it's not evil to do that.
Speaker:Since he, it uses its economic, I'll make leverage to create strategic
Speaker:dependencies and enhance its influence.
Speaker:Its drives to subvert the rules based international.
Speaker:Including the spice saw the in marathon to mines the deepening strategic
Speaker:partnership between the people's Republic of China and the Russian Federation.
Speaker:And they're mutually reinforcing attempts to undercut the rules-based international
Speaker:order run counter to our values or run counter to our values and interest.
Speaker:And in this article and the John managee blog, it says comments made by
Speaker:Albanese before and during the summit left little doubt that he concurred
Speaker:with the letter and the spirit of these admonitions, I guess, I think that was
Speaker:all written by the NATO members and the people who were visiting Australia,
Speaker:New Zealand, Japan, and South Korea.
Speaker:Couldn't probably sign it.
Speaker:I'd say to dispel any doubts, Albanese launched a diatribe against China for its
Speaker:failure to condemn Russian aggression.
Speaker:And he drew a parallel between Ukraine and Taiwan and invited China to learn
Speaker:from Russia's strategic failure.
Speaker:So I have to do it right when they do it.
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:Now there's really good art.
Speaker:So you heard all those references there to the rules based or.
Speaker:And a lot of this article, cause I was thinking about this and
Speaker:then came across an article that helped explain it all for me.
Speaker:So in the John managey blog, a guy called Mike scrap often
Speaker:was writing official documents.
Speaker:Speeches, rarely define what is meant by rules, biased, international
Speaker:order as if it's widely recognized.
Speaker:If there are rules other than the international law.
Speaker:City out in tradies what are they who sets them?
Speaker:What is the obligation to comply?
Speaker:He says in the early two thousands, there was some academic papers that started
Speaker:to use his terminology in America.
Speaker:And he sort of makes a case that the Americans started using this terminology.
Speaker:And Australia started following in relation to Australia.
Speaker:It's not a wise man.
Speaker:The case that the key strategic objective of Australian governments was to secure
Speaker:something called the rules based order.
Speaker:And a shift can be seen in the, my gesture TD policy documents
Speaker:and in rhetoric since about 2010, when references to international
Speaker:law gave why two rules biased.
Speaker:So prior to 2009 defense strategic documents came,
Speaker:contain no references to this.
Speaker:But in 2009, there was a white Piper, which might 11 references
Speaker:to rules based order and only two references to international law.
Speaker:By 2016, the Y paver, we find a 59 mentions of rules based global order.
Speaker:And international law is referred to only nine times.
Speaker:So we've got this shift from expecting governments to comply with international
Speaker:law, to expecting governments, to comply with rules based order and This
Speaker:shift is a rational wine on America's part because the sovereign equality of
Speaker:states is a key principle underlying international law, which denies America's
Speaker:exceptionalism in theory, international law is politically neutral, so it applies
Speaker:equally between autocracies and democracy.
Speaker:Well, America has regularly said it's not subject to international
Speaker:law because it refuses to be subject to the international criminal court.
Speaker:And it's not subject to the still hasn't signed the treaty on the international
Speaker:law of the sea, right America.
Speaker:So all this talk about sales JCC.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, this is the point.
Speaker:If we talking about, has China breached international law.
Speaker:You've got to argue legality and you've got you've got, you know,
Speaker:they'll say, oh, China, isn't you know, it's operations in the south.
Speaker:China sea have breached international treaty on on the sea.
Speaker:Well America hasn't even saw.
Speaker:It's really tricky for America.
Speaker:If it's going to be arguing that China is in breach of international
Speaker:law, because by and large, it doesn't breach international law.
Speaker:So it's a, it's an invention of this term called the rules based order,
Speaker:which is doing things the way we've always done them in a way that suits
Speaker:us kind of what it seems to vary.
Speaker:So restricting its are restricting its well from America's point of
Speaker:view, restricting American foreign policy activities within international
Speaker:law, doesn't sit well with it.
Speaker:So they've had to invent this imaginary rules based order and as power shifts
Speaker:occur and non-Western states seek decline.
Speaker:The neutrality and sovereignty international law offers the U S has to
Speaker:Klug its activities under a new disguise.
Speaker:And in this article, it says it's unclear with our Australian ministers or their
Speaker:visors, understand the distinction between international law versus
Speaker:rules based order or perceive that for America, the latter incorporates
Speaker:the formal when, and only when it suits American strategic interests.
Speaker:Diane said dear listener when you're reading about attacks on China,
Speaker:but typically, in this field first out, you're going to see more bad
Speaker:authoritarian regimes as the objection, and you don't see this rules based order
Speaker:rather than reaching international law.
Speaker:And when you say rules based order now, Yelling at bullshit it's international
Speaker:law that matters not this nebulous concept of rules-based order cause
Speaker:rules-based order leads to situations where America continues to try it with
Speaker:Saudi America, because we always have that's part of the rules based order.
Speaker:Talking of international law.
Speaker:You remember the whole Australian SAS war crimes
Speaker:scandal?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:It turns out that there's now allegations that UK SAS were similarly involved.
Speaker:Ah,
Speaker:really in their own independent.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It would be a culture night out.
Speaker:Yeah, so I'm waiting to see the U S get accused of
Speaker:that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, the special forces would add a similar culture and these guys
Speaker:are thrown into an environment, but that's almost guaranteed to happen.
Speaker:Unfortunately so yeah, there was an image that came out with Joe Biden this bumping
Speaker:the Saudi leader actually, before I do that, I'll have to get this other one out.
Speaker:So hang on.
Speaker:There was a John Bolton.
Speaker:Let me get that one.
Speaker:That was explaining last week.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There's all this criticism of this aggressive China without any recognition
Speaker:of the cous and government, either trials conducted by the U S and.
Speaker:John Bolton was a national security advisor to Donald Trump, the
Speaker:Donald Trump from 2018 and 2019.
Speaker:And he worked in important roles for Republican administration in the
Speaker:U S dating back to the Reagan era.
Speaker:And he's now admitted that he helped plan cous on behalf of America.
Speaker:So here's a little snippet of what he had to say.
Speaker:I don't know that I agree with you though, to be, to be, uh,
Speaker:fair with all due respect.
Speaker:Uh, one doesn't have.
Speaker:Brilliant to attempt to CU, uh, I disagree with that as somebody who has
Speaker:helped plan coup d'etat not here, but you know, other places, uh, it takes a
Speaker:lot of work and that's not what he did.
Speaker:It was just stumbling around from one idea to another.
Speaker:Ultimately he did unleashed the writers at the Capitol as to that.
Speaker:There's no doubt to this man is an expert on cous Joe.
Speaker:Cause he's done a few coups and he's time.
Speaker:It's not easy.
Speaker:Don't underestimate.
Speaker:How hard it is to pull off a coup
Speaker:well, yeah.
Speaker:To pull off the cube, to attend to CU, even Donald Trump could manage that.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:He was basically criticizing Trump, this guy doesn't they had to do a
Speaker:coup that wasn't a coup not like we did coups in the old days.
Speaker:It's not like they hide it.
Speaker:It was successful.
Speaker:It was an
Speaker:attempted coup yeah.
Speaker:But gee, let's hit your wagon to this guy, to these guys because heaven forbid.
Speaker:Well, there's other guys might do so.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But you know, let's hit, you are lagging, you know, and it's, and then
Speaker:there's an image of of journal notes.
Speaker:It's not Bandar Bush.
Speaker:No, it's not.
Speaker:And I'll meet friend.
Speaker:Is that correct?
Speaker:Is that what they had done?
Speaker:Something like that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think that's what it meant.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He was so close to the, was it the bin?
Speaker:Levin's.
Speaker:So all, all jets on the day after September the 11th.
Speaker:So September the 12th, we're grounded in the U S except for a private jet taking
Speaker:however many, 15 members of the south.
Speaker:A, sorry, they've been lauded and family out of the
Speaker:states.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Before the FBI could
Speaker:interrogate
Speaker:them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, we've got this picture of this is the hypocrisy.
Speaker:Yeah, you'll get this a lot with my arguments deal.
Speaker:Listener is I can, except people can have a different point of view
Speaker:on something, but you've got to be able to mind time consistency.
Speaker:So if you're saying that you prefer to deal with the U S Ivonne
Speaker:China, for example, then your reasons have to be consistent.
Speaker:And if you're saying, well, the Chinese are.
Speaker:Authoritarian monsters then.
Speaker:Well, in the first case we've already exposed him endlessly.
Speaker:Our, the U S has been authoritarian monsters around the planet, but
Speaker:then the company they came, like, what, why is it okay, why do
Speaker:the Saudis not get criticized?
Speaker:Why is it that the endless lines that are written.
Speaker:Objecting to the Chinese and what authoritarian, monsters and
Speaker:human rights abusers they are and nothing to be at the Saudis.
Speaker:no, cause the Saudis would never chop up somebody in their embassy.
Speaker:Oh wait.
Speaker:No, that's right.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:If you w it's gotta be consistent, if you can do this sort of stuff.
Speaker:So Caitlin Johnson was writing about that fist bump between.
Speaker:Between Biden and and the Saudi leader.
Speaker:So I quite liked it.
Speaker:I'll read it to baffle leaders, mid beneath the hot Jetta sand to discuss
Speaker:oil and killing and friendship.
Speaker:One of the leaders rules or tyrannical regime, which funds terrorists
Speaker:murders, journalists suppresses civil rights and commits war crimes.
Speaker:The.
Speaker:The crown prince of Saudi Arabia is no better
Speaker:come on.
Speaker:They haven't killed Julian Assange's yet,
Speaker:but greeted not with the traditional handshake nor with a stern finger
Speaker:wag from the American, for the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi,
Speaker:that with the most epic fist bump in the history of civilization, since
Speaker:the invention of the fist bump, there have been none so pure, so effective.
Speaker:So expressive of perfect union and harmony observers saying
Speaker:they thought heard angels singing
Speaker:but were they Muslim angel Christian angels?
Speaker:This is the question.
Speaker:Were there two fists connected?
Speaker:This cells merged the eyes, locked with an intimacy poets and lovers of
Speaker:the spent their whole lives, trying to capture their Dick chakras burned
Speaker:with the intensity of a thousand steps.
Speaker:No comment there, Joe,
Speaker:somebody who's been reading way too much fanfare.
Speaker:I think
Speaker:this is who we are.
Speaker:The fist pump rod to the heavens.
Speaker:This is who we have always been our sacred bond presides over an empire
Speaker:that is fueled by oil and blood.
Speaker:And we rule as one in holy communion with the great Kings of old,
Speaker:nothing shall ever come between us.
Speaker:Not burning soar nor mass.
Speaker:No strange lip service to human rights values on the presidential
Speaker:campaign trial timeframe.
Speaker:As the two joined fizz in genocidal, matrimony flashing colli greens at
Speaker:each other upon a mountain of Yemeni corpses in the tortured vines of Syria,
Speaker:their faces turned to skulls doves with red Stein, the feathers fill the
Speaker:sky and the Marxists of the world.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:If only we could one day capture that kind of class solidarity and
Speaker:the wives of the world say if only he would one day, look at me like that.
Speaker:And the arms manufacturers the world say, yeah, buddy, boy,
Speaker:this is going to be great.
Speaker:Let's go snot.
Speaker:Some Coke offer Tomahawk, miss arm, and the hidden science say something's
Speaker:got to give here and the world rotates on the access of those two joined.
Speaker:Into eco side and atrocity in Google, Hollywood, Mick dystopia, and the
Speaker:Imperial juggle marches on and the earth spins off into the blackness.
Speaker:And we all hold hands and look to Providence as we planned into
Speaker:an increasingly strange, unknown.
Speaker:Good evocative writing.
Speaker:Good on your Caitlin.
Speaker:I liked that one.
Speaker:The Dick checker is known with intensity and stars,
Speaker:eat crime,
Speaker:never heard of it.
Speaker:Where is that?
Speaker:White people who look like us, Joe.
Speaker:So when they that's trend, we pay attention.
Speaker:Mind you, they all husbands stealing.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Or did you not hear about that?
Speaker:And what was that
Speaker:story?
Speaker:I was the UK couple opened up their home to a Ukrainian refugee,
Speaker:and then the husband decided that he preferred the refugee over
Speaker:his wife and moved on with her.
Speaker:Oh, that was a UK headlines for a few days.
Speaker:No, no, I didn't see that one.
Speaker:Missed that one.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Got some Ukrainian quotes here.
Speaker:This one's from John builder.
Speaker:I spent my career working in the mindstream and I've covered
Speaker:probably 7, 8, 9 shooting wars.
Speaker:I've never seen coverage.
Speaker:So utterly consumed by a tsunami of jingoism and of manipulative jingoism
Speaker:as this one is one from nine Chomsky.
Speaker:It's quite interesting that in American discourse, it is almost
Speaker:obligatory to refer to the invasion as the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
Speaker:Look it up on Google.
Speaker:You'll find hundreds of thousands of hits.
Speaker:Of course it was provoked.
Speaker:Otherwise they wouldn't refer to it all the time as an unprovoked invasion.
Speaker:Chris hedges says at nighttime and cleaning the Cuban missile crisis.
Speaker:Have we stood closer to the precipice of nuclear war?
Speaker:Jerry, you got any thoughts?
Speaker:Nuclear.
Speaker:Do you think it looks at you crying and going?
Speaker:There's a chance?
Speaker:Not to the same extent as the Cuban missile crisis.
Speaker:I can see who's in doing badly deciding to use tactical nukes.
Speaker:I think that there are.
Speaker:Cooler voices, couple voices inside his forces that might balk at that.
Speaker:And of course, there's the whole, what we've discovered in this is Russia's
Speaker:military stockpiles have not been looked after and whilst on paper,
Speaker:they have huge amounts of forces.
Speaker:What we've found is that they've been poorly maintained and therefore.
Speaker:They may deploy nukes.
Speaker:There's no guarantees that those nukes will go off.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I'm not so not as pessimistic, but yeah, I can fully see him
Speaker:trying to deploy limited nukes.
Speaker:I don't think it'll turn into a shooting war though.
Speaker:So you reckon if he deployed limited nukes, the west wouldn't retaliate.
Speaker:So the Ukraine is not part of NATO.
Speaker:And to retaliate would effectively be to start a nuclear war.
Speaker:So I could see them retaliating in other ways, but not with nuclear strikes.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So if he dropped one on key of Westwood, just sit back and watch.
Speaker:I think that they would have no other option.
Speaker:They might increase military funding.
Speaker:But I can't see them getting involved in dropping news on Russia.
Speaker:So hard to know what goes on in these institutions, what real controls are.
Speaker:They're very difficult.
Speaker:Denied.
Speaker:Did you ever read that book?
Speaker:By Eric slot
Speaker:is the one where there were all these nuclear accidents that it
Speaker:followed and how we came so close to.
Speaker:Nuclear bombs go off at different times.
Speaker:I've not seen the whole narrow, I'll find it later.
Speaker:Talk about Chris hedges says, you know, you're in trouble when Henry
Speaker:Kissinger, who was called for you crying to cede territory, to Russia,
Speaker:and to open negotiations with Moscow in the next two months before it
Speaker:creates upheavals and tensions, that will not be easily overcome.
Speaker:He's a voice of sanity.
Speaker:It's interesting.
Speaker:When Henry Kissinger is telling me you crying, you need to seed
Speaker:territory and open negotiations.
Speaker:One of the most hawkish guys around, I,
Speaker:I don't know that them seeding any territory is going to be enough.
Speaker:Oh, I think it will be.
Speaker:If they, if well, Russia already said, give us the Donbass, give up on me.
Speaker:And promise you wine and tonight, and we will leave.
Speaker:Mike I've already said that,
Speaker:but they've also said that Ukraine is not a real country.
Speaker:It's part of Russia and always was part of Russia,
Speaker:but they've said we'll
Speaker:stop.
Speaker:So they've already demanded Crimea and they've already demanded the dumb bass.
Speaker:So they might stop for now, but that doesn't mean that in five
Speaker:years time, they won't be, well, you
Speaker:know what?
Speaker:What's gonna well, for starters, if you are a fighter in Ukraine, huddle
Speaker:day in some basement, somewhere living on starvation rations, trying to fight
Speaker:these guys, you'd be quite happy to hear about that cease fire or betcha.
Speaker:And meanwhile, Over five years.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:What is the west going to do?
Speaker:But piling in an enormous amount of military, if
Speaker:started, allowed to join NATO.
Speaker:Now, it doesn't mean they can't give them stuff.
Speaker:It just says you are not part of the Alliance, the
Speaker:triggers all in one in all in.
Speaker:So I
Speaker:just, the whole, The Scandinavian countries looking at joining NATO
Speaker:now, particularly Finland, I'm going to look at the history of Finland.
Speaker:It's a quirk of fate that they are a separate country, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They were granted autonomy after the Russian revolution because the communists
Speaker:in Finland had fought alongside the.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And we're granted autonomy.
Speaker:And the second world war, the Soviet Finnish war was all about, oh yes,
Speaker:we just want a bit of territory.
Speaker:But everyone said, had they gone onto that?
Speaker:The Russians still wouldn't have stopped.
Speaker:So they are very concerned and yeah the politics states.
Speaker:But if you say, ah, well, Russia could in five years time do it again.
Speaker:Well, that would mean you can't ever have a negotiation about anything though.
Speaker:Like you could always say that about any negotiated settlement or in five years
Speaker:time, these guys might tear it all up and do something contrary to the agreement.
Speaker:Not that they might, that they will never be satisfied until the
Speaker:whole of Ukraine is part of Russia.
Speaker:Again.
Speaker:Because it is the heart of the Slavic empire.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:This part of the, is the heart of this love again, but there's
Speaker:yeah, it's, it's like Israel coming to negotiated settlement
Speaker:with the Arab nations around it.
Speaker:When their reign, when their stated aim is to wipe the country off
Speaker:the face of the map, no negotiated settlement is ever going to be in a.
Speaker:Best it's a temporary respired.
Speaker:And therefore, is it better to have a temporary roof spite or
Speaker:is it better to fight the war?
Speaker:Well, they've lost the ground.
Speaker:They've lost this area.
Speaker:Let me get it back.
Speaker:Even Henry Kissinger says, given
Speaker:and Henry Kissinger says, given.
Speaker:I would've thought.
Speaker:And there's guys been up for a fight on plenty of occasions.
Speaker:I would've thought
Speaker:that's great generally when it's served us interests.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:This is the thing the S normally is able to bully people, so not
Speaker:able to disguise or right out.
Speaker:And of course still in Ukraine.
Speaker:Well, George Orwell wrote in 1994, war is not meant to be won.
Speaker:It's meant to be continued.
Speaker:Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance.
Speaker:This new version is the past and no different paths can ever have
Speaker:existed in principle the war.
Speaker:If it is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation,
Speaker:the war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects.
Speaker:And its object is not victory over either Uriah or east Asia, but to keep
Speaker:the very structure of society intact.
Speaker:I mean, if you're a cynical.
Speaker:Person Joe or you thinks, well, there are arms manufacturers in America who
Speaker:just want to sell more arms from their point of view and negotiated settlement.
Speaker:Giving up the Donbass in Crimea would be a disaster.
Speaker:Maybe cause arms might slow down.
Speaker:So it's in their interest is to keep it going.
Speaker:It's in America's interest.
Speaker:America's not losing any American boys in.
Speaker:And in fact they're selling arms.
Speaker:So I guess they're getting a lie.
Speaker:Some of it in some form or lines, I don't know how it's being structured, but the
Speaker:oil companies are doing quite nicely out of it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So lots of people would be arguing, oh, we can't possibly give him because
Speaker:meanwhile they're doing really well at it.
Speaker:You've got groups in America, like the squad It was supposed to be these
Speaker:left-wingers which would be Alexandria, Ocasio, Cortez, Ilhan, Omar, Ayanna
Speaker:Pressley, Rashida that lab, Cori Bush, others who are supposedly
Speaker:this left wing band of Democrats.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:Th it just like everybody else, Valium favorable lease these
Speaker:appropriation bills to provide these weapons say then it stop any of it
Speaker:all.
Speaker:But one of those seem to have Muslim names.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Eleanor Omar car care, the council of American Islamic, something or others.
Speaker:I have no idea.
Speaker:that name before?
Speaker:So the U S house of rep, sorry.
Speaker:I was just wondering if there was any Muslim interest in keeping that ward.
Speaker:I don't know,
Speaker:how are they?
Speaker:Are they Muslim republics on the edge of that region that
Speaker:this is taking pressure off?
Speaker:Or
Speaker:it's just Americans it's in their blood.
Speaker:I just, I just had this.
Speaker:That's what we do.
Speaker:We go and fund more's.
Speaker:The us has ever presented as faded 368 to 57 to spend $40 billion on
Speaker:a world threatening proxy war while ordinary naira can struggle to
Speaker:feed themselves and their children all 57, no votes were Republicans.
Speaker:Every member of the squad voted yet.
Speaker:The massive proxy war bill then went to the Senate was stalled with
Speaker:scrutiny, not from Bernie Sanders, but from Republican ran Paul.
Speaker:This is because this is again, I Katelyn Johnson.
Speaker:This is because the left wing Democrat is a myth like the good
Speaker:billionaire or the happy open marriage.
Speaker:It's not a real thing.
Speaker:It's the pleasant fairytale.
Speaker:People tell themselves, so they don't have to go through the psychological turmoil.
Speaker:I acknowledging that their entire worldview is built on
Speaker:lies.
Speaker:Object to that.
Speaker:I think there are such things as happy open marriages.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And a good billionaires.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That less sober.
Speaker:I'm sure he could find some.
Speaker:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That was you crying.
Speaker:I think I've ranted on enough about that.
Speaker:We to get closer to home and a bunch of other things now, slightly
Speaker:less depressing indigenous affairs.
Speaker:Sydney Harbor has got this place called goat island.
Speaker:Yeah, the Sydney Harbor bridge, the tiny little,
Speaker:I think I might have
Speaker:seen
Speaker:it on the map.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:If you're like a little Bailey fairy or something, he would have seen it
Speaker:probably, I guess it's about to be handed over to the wrong Aboriginal people.
Speaker:Aboriginal said come from Western new south Wales and I have no
Speaker:cultural connection to the.
Speaker:Say the descendants of the harbors original inhabitants.
Speaker:And it would be culturally offensive for goat island to be awarded to the
Speaker:metropolitan local Aboriginal land council because it's controlled by
Speaker:foreigners said, Ash Walker, a member of a different Aboriginal community.
Speaker:The article goes on.
Speaker:This is part of the problem.
Speaker:It's not just about indigenous ownership.
Speaker:It's then within the various tribes and memberships of those tribes.
Speaker:So that's one of the tricky parts of indigenous political rights.
Speaker:And there was an article we talked before about the voice to parliament
Speaker:and how I'm against it for the reasons.
Speaker:endless link.
Speaker:While leashes, his hair much will be revealed in this
Speaker:referendum and indigenous leader.
Speaker:Marcia Langton has worn.
Speaker:There are risks in going to a referendum on a constitutionally enshrined voice
Speaker:to parliament without a fully formed model describing how the body would work.
Speaker:So we seem to be in a position where people are saying.
Speaker:Let's have a referendum where we acknowledge that there
Speaker:should be a voice to Powerment
Speaker:and full-stop, and then other people saying, and there could be a
Speaker:voice to parliament, like this one, which we've described in this other
Speaker:document, which looks like this.
Speaker:So we'll see how that then ends up.
Speaker:I think they need to put some flesh on the bones if they want to get people to vote.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:it's not the same as the Republic.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:In principle, a lot of people agree, but until I know the model that's being
Speaker:proposed, they want to hold their vote.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And they're trying to get around that again by saying, well, let's just have
Speaker:a vote where we agree on a Republic and the only well with that, it's kind of
Speaker:almost simpler because you really sign.
Speaker:We all agree on a w we want you to agree on a Republic and the difficulty
Speaker:will be that the president will be elected by the parliament, or will
Speaker:it be elected by a by popular vote.
Speaker:It's almost simpler than how our independent voice to palmate is gonna
Speaker:operate because you really sign.
Speaker:At least whoever this person is, is going to have this sign.
Speaker:Job description as the current governor general, it's just, how do we elect them?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:but that's one of the models that's not the only model.
Speaker:And some people may say I would vote.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But only for this particular model.
Speaker:And I don't want to give a blanket.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Until I know which particular model we're going for.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Given a lead thinking, it's hard to imagine the India.
Speaker:Issue getting up at a referendum without something very specific
Speaker:what's involved migraine.
Speaker:I think I also mentioned in my discussion with all wiper about indigenous
Speaker:representation in the parliament in saying, well, it's already higher
Speaker:than in the general population.
Speaker:So the current Paolo.
Speaker:Is a record number of first nations persons.
Speaker:So there's eight indigenous senators and three indigenous MPS in the house rips.
Speaker:So that's 4.8% of the parliament and the actual indigenous
Speaker:Australian population is 3.3%.
Speaker:Did you see the article about the rise in the number of people identifying as.
Speaker:I think when I was talking to Paul, I was talking about an article like that.
Speaker:There was
Speaker:a comment from, and I can't remember some Aboriginal leader saying the
Speaker:problem is these people have done a DNA test and discolored some great, great
Speaker:ancient relative that was Aboriginal and saying, this is effectively.
Speaker:Skewing the data set because these people are now ticking.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:To Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander heritage.
Speaker:And yet they are, as far as demographics go the same as any other white Australian.
Speaker:And so when you look at incarceration rates, health outcomes, suddenly you
Speaker:have this influx of people who are not.
Speaker:The people living in remote communities and suddenly going, Hey, this is great.
Speaker:We've now reduced our or we've increased our Aboriginal
Speaker:life expectancy by 10 years.
Speaker:And all we've done is included more people who are only nominally
Speaker:Aboriginal in these counts.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Also government funding from the federal government to the states as a complainant.
Speaker:Paid more money for a higher indigenous population.
Speaker:And so now money is going to state because of their higher indigenous representation
Speaker:and away from the Northern territory.
Speaker:So that's causing an issue there as well.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Back to the Australian parliament 23% of Australians claim.
Speaker:Non-European ancestry, but just 6.6% of the men peas have
Speaker:overseas non-European backgrounds.
Speaker:He's an important one, only 4.4% of MPS in the palmar have Asian
Speaker:heritage compared with 18% of the Australian population that lives.
Speaker:So Australian population at large 18% Asian heritage, only
Speaker:4.4% in the Powerment data.
Speaker:We need an Asian voice to parliament to properly get across the Asian perspective
Speaker:of how our laws should be passed.
Speaker:Because of under massive under representation.
Speaker:If you were to be consistent,
Speaker:I was going to say Asia Asian is an even larger area than Australia
Speaker:with probably even more disparate
Speaker:views.
Speaker:So I it's the same as, you know, how do you get an accurate representation?
Speaker:Even, yeah, even amongst aboriginals to the aboriginals of w I think
Speaker:the same as those of, yeah.
Speaker:Tasmania,
Speaker:do they have a shared heritage?
Speaker:Just because they all were descendants from the same people 40,000 years ago.
Speaker:Well, the Western Sydney, indigenous people are quite different to the gut
Speaker:Ireland, indigenous people, apparently.
Speaker:So these are all the issues, the listener that makes this sort of
Speaker:thinking divisive rather than inclusive.
Speaker:Are you a member of the rational Saudi Jain?
Speaker:I'm not right.
Speaker:I have a magazine called I
Speaker:follow them, but.
Speaker:They've got a mesh, a magazine called the rationale has articles in it.
Speaker:In fact, you wrote a letter.
Speaker:I write an article for the rationale.
Speaker:Yup.
Speaker:And so I saw on Facebook or something, just sort of an intro for one of the
Speaker:articles that's recently been written and this one was about Douglas Murray in.
Speaker:And a recent book that he's written.
Speaker:And and I was reading this review and I thought, come on rational
Speaker:society in rationale, you can do better than this seriously.
Speaker:It's Douglas Murray, the bell curve.
Speaker:He was the guy, the strange death of Europe or something like that.
Speaker:And yeah.
Speaker:S so
Speaker:let me read the review then I think I should do it that way.
Speaker:Bits of it.
Speaker:Douglas Murray is a wonderfully free spirit who lucidly tackles the mania
Speaker:of political correctness with erudition pinash and limpid reasoning at 43 years of
Speaker:age is a conservative or paraphrase here.
Speaker:Mary writes without fear or Fiverr or for start, you've just
Speaker:acknowledged as the concern.
Speaker:If you're going to say he rides with the funeral Fiverr, I think you'll find that
Speaker:he rides in favor of conservative values.
Speaker:Like let's just get that the stars, he calls himself a conservative yet.
Speaker:In many ways, he is a John Stuart mill Carter liberal it's the radical
Speaker:nihilism of the left that makes this look like a conservative position.
Speaker:Meaning the lift is so far lift.
Speaker:That it makes him look conservative.
Speaker:He himself exhibits impressive erudition and aesthetic sophistication.
Speaker:One might almost evoke in his case, the remark attributed to Bloomsbury
Speaker:S theat, an essayist Litton stretchy when he was challenged by an upper
Speaker:class lady at the height of the great war as to why he was not at the
Speaker:front defending Western civilization.
Speaker:Madame, I am Western civilization.
Speaker:You could say that about Douglas Merry.
Speaker:Apparently in his new book, he asked that we draw the line at the wholesale
Speaker:denunciation of Western civilization.
Speaker:It attempts to discredit and even demolish its cultural and philosophical
Speaker:traditions in the name of post-colonialism anti-racism and egalitarian radicalism.
Speaker:Stopped announcing Western liberal civilization.
Speaker:He writes in spite of all the unimaginable abuses perpetrated in our time, but
Speaker:the communist party of China, almost nobody speaks of China with an iota
Speaker:of the rage and disgust orient daily against the west from inside the west.
Speaker:Really.
Speaker:Douglas, like nobody speaks badly about China.
Speaker:What are you reading?
Speaker:You're not reading what I'm reading in spite of the unimaginable abuses
Speaker:perpetrated in our time by the communist party of China, almost nobody speaks
Speaker:of China with an iota of the rage and disgust audio daily against the west.
Speaker:From inside the west.
Speaker:That's just plainly wrong.
Speaker:People are raging against China all the time.
Speaker:Mary says, oh, this article says, how did this happen?
Speaker:He asked it didn't happen by chance.
Speaker:It was brought about by radical movements in the name of emancipation.
Speaker:Mary writes with reference to the fury that arose over the George Floyd
Speaker:over the killing of George Floyd by Derek Shelvin, much of the venom
Speaker:and fury that existed down in there.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And in the west as a whole, now it comes down to this one specific problem.
Speaker:People have been shown a version of the letter.
Speaker:That is exaggerated at best and wildly off at worst.
Speaker:I'm going to get back to this, but the whole shtick of Douglas Murray is he shows
Speaker:a version of society exaggerating, crazy left wing, woke ism as being rampant and.
Speaker:Strongman's it.
Speaker:And then presents is cultured conservative view in contrast to
Speaker:that, to make it appear mind strain.
Speaker:So that was the article.
Speaker:Like I haven't read this book, but I've read enough of Douglas
Speaker:Murray and heard enough of Douglas Murray to say the guy is.
Speaker:Occasionally right on things like, apparently in this book, he goes
Speaker:to town on 10 HESI coats seeking reparations for black people in America.
Speaker:And when can they be right about certain things.
Speaker:But his stick is to find some crazy left-wing idea that somebody
Speaker:might have raised in some American university or something, and then
Speaker:promoted as happening everywhere.
Speaker:And things are totally out of control, left wing situation.
Speaker:And and it just character choose in stroll.
Speaker:Man's a position that he then knocks down that's his stick and does.
Speaker:And you don't find
Speaker:that the reverse is also true
Speaker:that people are caricaturing the rods and.
Speaker:I'm painting a few.
Speaker:Admittedly the crazy rights are generally more
Speaker:violent.
Speaker:But the left is tarring the whole of the Republicans with the same crazy steak
Speaker:look, I reckon that people have acknowledged that there is say.
Speaker:I have a whelming layer.
Speaker:It seems that people have acknowledged that within the Republican party,
Speaker:there are the Trump loyalists and the non Trump loyalists.
Speaker:Like people have said these guys like MTG are all in with
Speaker:Trump still completely crazy.
Speaker:There are some like Dick Chinese daughter who are standing up to
Speaker:this man and are not so crazy.
Speaker:So I think there are, and even your friend, Robert Reich was saying that
Speaker:she might actually make a good president in these times, Mike it's Robert rocks,
Speaker:the guy that you've sort of read it off.
Speaker:And, and he was saying they had two Chinese Republican daughter that, you
Speaker:know, in favorable terms as a potential president, sorry, you know, it's possible
Speaker:to say our look it's happens on both sides, but There's a good argument to
Speaker:say that there actually is a lot of extremes on the right, but if you're
Speaker:going to paint a guy as a as writing, without fear or favor, then I don't think
Speaker:he can say this guy is as impartial as that statement would present itself.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:It's and apply a little bit here.
Speaker:Now this is podcast, dear listener that you really need to subscribe to,
Speaker:which is called decoding the gurus.
Speaker:So episode nine does a great job on Douglas Murray, where they ask
Speaker:can indulgent dinner conversations, Soviet civilization, and they really.
Speaker:Douglas Mary's in the podcast talking to some other guy.
Speaker:And and in talking about this stuff, I'm going to play a little bit of
Speaker:what Marie was saying on that podcast.
Speaker:Near the beginning of this whole thing started in the UK.
Speaker:I think in America, to some extent we had this thing of, we
Speaker:must protect the health service.
Speaker:You know, we must protect the hospitals by non being ill and going through.
Speaker:Uh, of course, I mean, I, and others said at the time, uh, actually the
Speaker:health service exists to protect us, not the other way round.
Speaker:Uh, it isn't that we form a ring of steel around it, but that it's meant to fall the
Speaker:ring of steel around just plain stupid.
Speaker:Like the whole point was we lowered a barrier health serves as being
Speaker:either run with too many patients.
Speaker:And that's just a stupid comment by this guy.
Speaker:And it's done with this harsh tophi Etonian English accent,
Speaker:and it's quite often just crap and it's this apply another, I've
Speaker:got another clip here somewhere.
Speaker:Hang on a second.
Speaker:Let me find this one.
Speaker:Let me just quickly fall on this rug.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Let me just.
Speaker:I just one, well, in what I'm talking about is things like, oh,
Speaker:I didn't know, you're in a bar.
Speaker:You need to squeeze through a space and somebody touches you on the ass as you do.
Speaker:It's not the end of the world.
Speaker:You know, you didn't ask for it, but you're in a highly sexualized place.
Speaker:And so what.
Speaker:It's quite flattering.
Speaker:You don't always want it if you really didn't want it, you know?
Speaker:Uh, but you're in that game, you're in the, in the sort of sex like,
Speaker:so for context, he's a gay man and therefore possibly is more used to being
Speaker:touched on the ass by strangers in bars.
Speaker:Not impugning gay people, but they tend to be of all, uh, demographics, I would
Speaker:say most likely to appreciate that.
Speaker:And for gay guys, bars are highly sexualized places.
Speaker:Depends on the bar.
Speaker:ISU.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:exhibits, impressive erudition and aesthetic sophistication.
Speaker:Madame, I am Western civilization just.
Speaker:If you're listening to Douglas Murray or you're reading it, just ask yourself
Speaker:when he's describing crazy leftish work ism or he's describing a situation.
Speaker:Is he exaggerating?
Speaker:Is he really describing a situation that happens frequently is a genuine
Speaker:problem or is he caricaturing something that will then, uh, I, his argument
Speaker:that the west has lost its way.
Speaker:Yeah, marvelous.
Speaker:Civilization has been unfairly criticized.
Speaker:The guy is not a, an intellectual powerhouse by any means and take
Speaker:everything he says with a grain of salt.
Speaker:And
Speaker:I was like, Lord
Speaker:Monckton
Speaker:Lord, please.
Speaker:Lord.
Speaker:Most.
Speaker:Oh, he's a climate denier climate change.
Speaker:Denier is he?
Speaker:Oh yeah, he's very famous, but he is, he is a Lord.
Speaker:He's a peer of the realm.
Speaker:So he stands up with his upper class English accent and holds
Speaker:forth about absolute bullshit.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Hey, we're coming up to an hour on this and for technical reasons, we
Speaker:need to keep this under an hour.
Speaker:And ah, what else did I want to say?
Speaker:Oh, we got this stuff on Albanese and I on Morrison census data.
Speaker:you know what, uh, just briefly J while we're still under the one and a half,
Speaker:do you see the thing about Australian of the year in disability advocate as
Speaker:shocked fans after video emerged of him using a sex toy and his partner at.
Speaker:Did you see that?
Speaker:No, I didn't.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:I'm surprised you didn't see that one.
Speaker:No good on him, but that's it.
Speaker:That's the spirit.
Speaker:It has a story on their partner in a restaurant,
Speaker:as long as this is
Speaker:discreet.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, I think he published it on Instagram.
Speaker:If that is that still discreet?
Speaker:There's a camp.
Speaker:I don't know how much the other dinosaur.
Speaker:I don't know exactly.
Speaker:That's the point?
Speaker:I think, I don't think they have a dinosaur in much.
Speaker:I don't know people on Instagram that are enough.
Speaker:I mean, if you, if you dragging other people into your sex life without
Speaker:their consent, that's a bit rude.
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:It's under the table and nobody sees anything.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:Hey, we better finish this up.
Speaker:Otherwise it'll cause me a technical issue.
Speaker:59 cent, six seconds.
Speaker:All right, Joe.
Speaker:Thanks for your company.
