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Episode 328 - Don't Allow Your Consent to be Manufactured

In this episode we discuss:

There is a lot of propaganda out there. We need to read widely.

To financially support the Podcast you can make:

We Livestream every Monday night at 7:30 pm Brisbane time. Follow us on Facebook or YouTube. Watch us live and join the discussion in the chat room.

We have a website. www.ironfistvelvetglove.com.au

You can email us. The address is trevor@ironfistvelvetglove.com.au



Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
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Suburban Eastern Australia.

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An environment that has, over time, evolved some extraordinarily

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unique groups of homosapiens.

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Despite the reputation of their homeland, some are remarkably thin skinned.

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Some seem to have multiple lifespans.

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A few were once thought to be extinct in the region.

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Others have been observed being sacrificed by their own.

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But today We observe a small tribe akin to a group of meerkats that gather together

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atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss the current events of their city,

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their country, and their world at large.

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Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

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Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

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Well, hello there dear listener.

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This is the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast episode 328.

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And, uh, something a little bit different on this episode, I wanted to

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talk about a few things solo almost, but also I wanted to get some input

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from you, the, the dear listener.

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So there's a general invitation on this one to come on board and have a chat.

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So if you're watching the live stream, there'll be details about the link.

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I've already sent it to the patrons, so they'll, they've got a headstart,

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but if you're keen to chip in.

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and talk about stuff, then hit the link and you'll enter the green room and Joe's

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gonna help me out and kick out any trolls who might try to enter, and uh, Shea's not

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here because it wasn't really intended to be a panel discussion, so I didn't invite

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Shai, and Jay's sort of just helping out more on the tech side, but anyway.

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This is the Iron Fist Velvet Glove podcast, talking about news

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and politics, sex and religion.

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One of the things that's really struck me in the last few weeks has just been

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the propaganda I see in relation to Ukraine, China, various other things,

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and just the way that we're subjected to it, even from sources that would

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probably try and be neutral, but they're actually just promoting the standard

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narrative line, such as the ABC.

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So I really want to talk about the influence of the media and really trying

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to look at What are some independent media sources that we can look at?

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Because I've just got the feeling that, more than was the feeling, the mainstream

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media is letting us down and even independent ABC is letting us down a lot.

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So yeah, we're going to be talking about mainstream media, manufacturing consent.

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What are the other choices we've got in terms of, of sources of of

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information, and I want you to tell me what your sources of information are.

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I'm going to tell you, I'm going to show me, I'm going to show you mine if

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you show me yours, type of situation.

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So let's do that.

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If you don't want to do it live, if you don't want to join us and do it by video

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and audio, then in the chat room, tell us what news sources you rely on that

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you feel give you If not an independent view, at least an alternative view

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that you put with the other things.

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So if you're exposed to a lot of right wing media normally, what,

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what left wing do you read or see and how do you balance it out?

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So yeah, that's what we'll get onto.

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Now, one of the things I wanted to talk about was, Shay mentioned

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last week about, you know, would you make a run in the Senate?

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Why wouldn't you do it?

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And I said, look.

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It's impossible to get traction, and really what I want to say is that no one

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in the regular world will care enough to start a movement that's going to

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vote for Trevor Bell or anybody like me.

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And as proof of that, nobody in the regular world is going

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to be interested in what I say.

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Um, my argument is that no one in the secular, rational world Cares enough

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about what we're doing here on this podcast, let alone in the normal world.

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So I was thinking about episode 327, which I did on the 15th of February

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titled Forgotten Atheist, and that was the episode where I basically went

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through the religious discrimination bill, basically from start to finish.

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Its origin, you know, Now I know that that was a pretty good rundown of the Religious

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Discrimination Bill, its origins, the city point at the start and at the end,

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the ethical arguments surrounding it, the interesting things that happened in

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the Parliament in Hansard, who voted.

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Like, that was a fairly decent rundown of the Religious Discrimination Bill.

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And groups like the Rationalists, And the National Secular Lobby.

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That's right in their wheelhouse, that topic.

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You know, The Rationalist put out a newsletter, and no mention of my podcast.

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The National Secular Lobby puts out a weekly rap, no mention of the podcast.

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Like, now they all know who I am.

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And if I, if I contacted them and said, Hey, I did this podcast,

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episode 327, recently, you know, Religious Discrimination Bill.

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You want to put a link in your next newsletter?

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I'm sure they would.

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Do I have to ask every time?

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Especially when, you know, Stan Grant will write an article saying

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outlandish things about the wonders of Christianity and they'll all link to it

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and write about it and talk about it.

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He didn't have to ring up the National Secular Lobby or email

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the Rationalists and say, Hey, can you put a link in for me?

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Like, they just did it.

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So It was on the ABC though.

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Yeah.

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Well, this is the point.

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Like, they're actually more willing to put links to stuff that's,

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that argues against their case.

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Then they are to put up a link from someone like me, who's actually

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providing a framework and information that, you know, call me silly, but this

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would be of value to their members.

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It's a strange, it's a strange phenomena where these groups, you

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know, if I was some crazy Christian pastor making outrageous statements

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about how bad atheists are.

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They'd be linking to me all the time, but I put up a half decent

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episode giving a full background on the Religious Discrimination Bill.

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Silence.

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Crickets.

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You know.

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Joe, am I being precious?

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Watching is the other question.

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What's that?

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Are they actually listening?

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Probably not.

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Like, indeed, probably not.

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They're probably thinking, well, what am I going to learn from Trevor?

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You know?

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So that's my argument, Shea.

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Next time you're trying to talk me into running for the Senate is I'm

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not going to get ordinary people interested in what I've got to say.

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Because I can't even get, you know, the National Secular Lobby or the rationalists

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or people like that to be interested, you know, say something to So, she did have

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a point, which was, if you were running as a Satanist That would be enough of a

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show card, enough of a draw card, to get the press, the popular press, interested.

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Mm.

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I don't think so.

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And Shay's comment is, oh diddums.

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That's good, Shay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm having a Look, it's no whinge.

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I'm not actually, you know, I could, I could email him every week and say,

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oh, this particular one is of interest.

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You might want to link to it.

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It's like, eh, if it's not going to happen.

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Maybe not every week.

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Yeah.

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If it's not going to happen, um, naturally, then it's just

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not going to happen, is it?

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So there you go, Shane.

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That's sort of, uh, a reason why I won't be doing it.

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And yeah, you know, I think they're in a bit of a mindset of linking

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to articles in mainstream media.

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So if I'd appeared in the Courier Mail and a 25 word sound grab was

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printed, they would link to it.

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But when I give a 45 minute detailed explanation in my

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own podcast, then they won't.

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There's sort of a mindset therein.

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So, the other thing is, dear listener, you know, what about you?

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When was the last time you were in some forum or somewhere and

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you said to your colleagues or friends or whatever, Uh, yeah.

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Iron Fist Velvet Glove did a podcast on this, here's the link, like, and, you

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know, it just doesn't happen, does it?

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It's very hard to generate viral interest in things, we're behind the eight ball.

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But having said that, I, I take some blame in this whole matter, and really is, you

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know, I haven't asked you to, have I?

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I haven't suggested it enough, I haven't made you feel guilty enough,

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and, and I haven't made shareable video bite sized snippets, so.

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I haven't created an easy way for you to do it, and Somebody did ask

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to share your rant the other day.

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Yes, that's right, somebody did.

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Which made me sort of think about it, because it was like, the first time in

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ages, so Maybe I'll remind you a bit more often and maybe we'll create some little

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video snippets and things like that.

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If anyone wants to help with that, let us know.

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Okay, who's in the chat room?

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So Shailene says get Joe to do it.

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Good on you Shailene.

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Tom the warehouse guy.

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Tom, the warehouse guy by the way everybody, was at the bar table with me.

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With my, uh, Supreme Court action and he has just got qualified as

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a solicitor just the other day.

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So congratulations, Tom.

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So now you're going to the bar to celebrate?

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He's going to celebrate, no doubt, he already has.

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And as the years go by, we'll be calling on Tom, the warehouse guy, to help

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us out in a few other legal actions.

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And he can do a much better job of it than I did.

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Craig B says, mentioned you at least half a dozen times last year

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at work, across a range of topics.

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Good on you, Craig B, thank you for that.

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It makes me feel good, so.

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I have to say, I've referred off to the Modern Monetary

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Theory episode a few times.

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Right.

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Thank you.

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Pointed to people and said, hey, have a look at this in depth interview on this.

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That was with Stephen Hale.

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It was.

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Camille said, I sent a link to the Black Lives, Deaths in Custody

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episode to my uni study group chat.

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Went down like a lead balloon.

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I'm sure it did.

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Yeah, yeah, that was when we were talking about the statistics.

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In fact, once you were in jail, a slightly higher percentage of white people dying

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in custody than black people, of course.

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But it didn't match their confirmation bias, and therefore they didn't like it.

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We mentioned that your chances of going to jail were much higher.

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That's a black person, but once you were actually in, the

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statistics told a different story.

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Yeah.

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So what I want you to do, well, we're going to talk about the media, mainstream

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media, what they've been doing, and we're going to talk about some suggestions for

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ways of expanding our knowledge, so we get sort of alternative viewpoints, and what I

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want you to do in the chat room is tell me the blogs, the podcasts, the independent

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media, people on Twitter, that you follow, that you feel gives you a viewpoint.

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that you don't get in the normal media that people subscribe to.

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Send me some suggestions.

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I'm actually finding podcasts, not many out there, that are

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holding me in at the moment.

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I've sort of dipped my toe in a few and have just, uh, fallen out

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of love with them fairly quickly.

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There's not, I'm looking for some podcasts, if people have

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got some recommendations.

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I'll have some a bit later on.

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So, now, is our, is Dom still there or he disappeared again?

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Yeah, he is.

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He's, um Alright.

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I am here if you can hear me.

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Alright, Dom, what do you want to Before I kick off on

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things, what are you up to, Dom?

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What do you want to Well, yeah, I mean, I drive seven days a week, so I don't get

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a lot of time to do, to look at magazines and listen to articles and stuff, so my,

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most of my political exposure is you guys.

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And if something comes up in the show notes, something I'm interested in,

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I'll go and look at it later, but yeah, we're They, for some reason, they don't

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like me reading while I'm driving.

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They get very upset about it, the police and the general public and the boss,

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they all get very upset if I, if I, like, for example, at the moment, while

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I'm talking to you guys, I'm currently building a model kit and they don't like

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me sort of having something like that up in front of my face while I'm driving.

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Yeah, that's fair enough.

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Everyone gets really upset for some reason, I don't know why.

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So Don, what have I said in the last three months that you've

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disagreed with and you've gone?

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He's talking shit there.

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Like he's, I'm with you all the way, Trevor, but you've

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gone too far in that way.

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Not much really.

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Alright.

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You're on board on everything.

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? Yeah.

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No, 99%.

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Not anything that immediately comes to mind.

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If you're in the chat room and I've said something in the last three months where

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I've overstepped and you're thinking he's, I've jumped the shark, I've gone crazy.

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Tell me now, I'm keen to hear.

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I'm keen.

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I'm up for an argument.

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The Twelfth Man has not been around for ages and I'm up for an argument.

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So you're disappointing me, Dom.

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I think my opinions line up pretty directly with yours.

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And the Twelfth Man not being there means there's not that

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banter and not that discussion bordering quite often on arguments.

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And yeah, when the Twelfth Man was still around, there was respect

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there, but there was It was almost to the point of virtual fisticuffs.

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I mean, you disagreed on many things quite vehemently.

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Um, if it hadn't been a schoolyard situation, there would have been a whole

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bunch of us certainly going, fight, fight, fight, fight, but no, it was, it was good.

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I like getting, cause as I say, the way I think is in pretty closely aligned

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with what, but it's good to have someone else who, who always is the, the, the,

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the polar opposite going, look, you're talking out your arse, especially when

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he was talking about things like, um, masks and lockdowns and stuff like that.

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We know what's happened now.

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But yeah, but it's good to have someone.

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It's too easy, especially with social media, to get into these echo

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chambers where everyone just reflects the same thing that you think.

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So it's good to go onto sites where people think the opposite of

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you and go, okay, explain to me.

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Why the Earth is Hollow, why David Icke is right, and get

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into those sort of fun things.

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Yeah, it was getting a getting into debates with people that I disagree with.

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It was getting a bit exhausting with Paul, though, by the end.

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And we pretty much knew our positions, and we weren't budging, and it was

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hitting a lot of roadblocks, so.

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So we had a good run for a long time.

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It sort of got to a bit of a stalemate.

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But we did actually hit some roadblocks there where we just couldn't go beyond.

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And I think we finished at the right time there, and things move on.

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And here we are.

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Well Dom, if you're not going to argue with me, and you're not going

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to, what else do you listen to?

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What other podcasts?

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Because I'm going to bounce you off unless you're going to tell me something, you're

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going to argue with me, or you're going to tell me What other podcasts you've

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been listening to or other information you've been getting that you find useful?

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Uh, I mostly listen to the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm guys, which

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has nothing to do with this at all.

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Godawful movies.

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Actually, Citation Needed is an interesting one because the way

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that they describe it is they listen to one, they read one article in

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Wikipedia, which makes them an expert.

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And then I discuss it for an hour, so.

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Okay, there we go.

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I don't listen to a lot of political podcasts.

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I just, I read three articles from the John Menendee blog, and that makes me

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an expert, and I discuss it for an hour.

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So, we've got that in common, so.

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Yeah, there you go.

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Yeah.

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Alright, Dom.

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Well, by the way, for those who don't know, Dom attended the, uh, Satanic You

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know, we had at Noosa and he had his limousine there and we all climbed in and

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got a photo shoot at one point as well.

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So that was a good night.

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It was.

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And it's just a strange thing to do in Noosa, a bunch of Satanists heading

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into a limousine for photo shoots.

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That was a good night.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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All right Dom, I'm going to bounce you off so I can keep

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going and thanks for tuning in.

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Talk to you later.

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Okay.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Okay.

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Later.

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All right.

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That was Dom.

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Okay.

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If you're in the chat room.

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There's a link there.

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Talk to us.

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You won't bite, I promise.

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Okay, what's happening at the moment?

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Apparently Russia has moved troops and tanks into the Donbass region and the

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world is wondering are we headed for a serious conflict and my best guess

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would be that they'll take and secure that Donbass region and The rest of

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the world will impose sanctions, but they won't actually make a serious

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military effort to try and kick them out, because it'll be too difficult.

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This isn't some ragtag Al Qaeda or Taliban group here, this is the

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Russian army, and In a position of relative strength and the U.

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S.

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normally picks on much smaller targets in terms of easier targets, if you like.

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So, I would have thought, probably secure the region and the world will

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continue to impose even more sanctions.

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Joe?

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That's what BBC is reporting.

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They've said that they're looking at various ways of attacking

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Putin and his cabinet's personal assets hidden around the world.

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I know that one of the minister's luxury, whatever it was, 300 meter long

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yacht sailed early out of a European port where it was undergoing repairs.

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Right.

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Because they were worried that it was going to get seized.

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Yes, indeed.

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So it should be.

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So they were trying to move assets very rapidly out of Europe.

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When I did that talk on super imperialism, Michael Hudson was

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saying that, you know, the U.

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S.

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has already been applying a lot of sanctions onto Russia and it

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sort of backfired because they ended up broadening their economy.

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And, because they couldn't import things, they actually started making

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things internally, which made them more or less impervious to these

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sort of boycotts from the US.

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So, that remains to be seen how well they've done that, but that

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was his sort of argument was that.

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That the sanctions that had already been in place on Russia had, had had the

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effect of causing Russia to, to broaden and, and diversify its economy, so it

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could produce the things that it couldn't get out of the West, and if that's the

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case, um, they might feel like, well, we don't care what sanctions you put on

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us, we'll just, uh, do what we're doing and we'll deal with China and we'll deal

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with Iran and we'll deal with the people we've been dealing with, and we really

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don't care, it's entirely possible.

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Well, I think the biggest one is if the EU stopped taking their gas.

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Correct, that's the big one.

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And, and instead buy it from the U.

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S.

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via ships or something like that.

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I know that, um, the U.

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K.

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are having a major problem with heating costs at the moment.

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They're saying that the gas prices have gone up probably because, um, they were

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worried that this was going to happen and they would lose access to Russian gas.

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Yep.

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It'll be a tricky decision for the Germans and the rest when Russia says,

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Well We're happy to supply you with gas, and it's at this price here.

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Of course, you can buy it from America at twice the price if you like,

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but we're perfectly willing to sell it to you if you want to take it.

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So, then of course the US will impose sanctions on the Germans

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or others for dealing with Russia.

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That's the sort of thing that they do.

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I was listening to this um, lady talking about Cuba.

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She was, been visiting Cuba, and basically, if a ship delivers something

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to Cuba It's banned from all U.

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S.

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ports for six months, so that's one of the reasons why.

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And if any company is to sell anything into Cuba that's got more than 10 percent

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of its componentry is American, then they suffer severe financial hardships.

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So, so poor old Cuba has certainly been battered by, um, these sanctions,

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and Venezuela for that matter.

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But, you know China and Russia and whatever are different kettle of fish.

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So, interesting to see how well Russia can keep going.

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Eric in the chat room says, Perhaps we're all in Trevor's silo.

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Nobody wants to ring up and disagree with me.

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Maybe that's the case.

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And Denny asks, Can the EU really afford to get gas that way though?

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I don't know.

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What do you mean, Eric?

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Can they really afford to get gas from the Americans?

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Craig B says, Come to think of it, I listened to the IFVG for my

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alternative viewpoint, to be honest.

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Thanks, Craig.

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That's good.

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So, yeah, so that's what's happening.

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I thought we were all brainwashed sheeple.

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Yes, I thought so as well.

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Okay, just locally, we've got an election coming up in May.

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Scott Morrison, I mean, he's done a terrible job in terms of the vaccines and

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the, just the general response to COVID.

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He's clearly running an election campaign.

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The last one was on jobs and growth.

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The current one It's just this car key election.

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He's Jesus, guns and babies.

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Jesus, guns and babies.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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He hasn't talked much about babies yet.

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Just Jesus and guns, isn't it?

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So for the Christians out there, he's your man and military stuff.

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This whole, really their election campaign based on the last couple

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of weeks is really one of national security and who's going to keep

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Australia safe from the bad guys.

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That's it.

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Oh, and lying about how the Chinese were trying to influence the Labour Party.

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Yes.

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Manchurian candidates.

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To the point where the head of the security services said, no, we've

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not said anything of the sort.

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Yes.

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And for them to make a public statement is incredibly rare.

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Indeed, yeah.

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You just wonder how much in the normal, the normal Joes who don't pay

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attention, how much of it seeps through.

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I'm going to deal with the chat room regularly in tonight's episodes.

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Shailene, Michael Costello, former head of DFAT, was on 7am today and

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yesterday and it was excellent.

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That's to do with what you were just talking about.

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Camille says, I listen to left, right and centre for American politics occasionally.

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Katharine Murphy's Auspol podcast.

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Big Sam Harris fan, and I do enjoy Trevor's silo most of

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the time, that's good, so.

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You know, Sam Harris, he's, he's, he's completely blind to the whole

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US freedom democracy type argument.

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I mean, he had a panel of people on the other day Anne Applebaum, David

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Frum, and really the whole tone of the conversation was American is a beacon

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of freedom and democracy, and why is it that we're having trouble promoting

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that idea around the world, sort of thing, like Oh, it's Julian Assange.

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Yes, indeed.

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So, he's good, Sam.

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He's intellectually honest.

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He never talks about economics.

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I've never heard him talk about economics and power plays in

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terms of the world and economics.

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He's very good on individual rights, freedoms, freedom of speech and

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conflicts between religion and freedom.

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All that, he's pretty good, even with identity politics stuff.

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The stuff he says there, I mostly agree with, but his worldview

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is Pay nearly enough attention to money, power, in my opinion.

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Anyway, still will chip in and listen to his occasional one.

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Eric V says, I watch and read mainstream media for an opposite view to my own.

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Yep.

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And yeah, Reds Under the Like, we really do have a Reds Under the Bed

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scare campaign happening at the moment.

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And I can remember when Hawke was coming into power, the dying days of

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the Fraser government, and, and Fraser tried a Reds Unbed campaign, but he

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was also doing a, you know, the economy will be stuffed under Labor, uh, line.

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So, Hawke made this joke that Fraser is telling everybody that You'll need to

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hide your money under your bed, but you can't do that because that's where the

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Reds are hiding, something like that.

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So, and he was just laughing about it because it was, that's literally

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what it had gotten down to.

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I think, I think it would be good for Albanesey to just

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start laughing at Morrison.

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I think that's, I think that's really effective when somebody is so bad, you

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think they ought to do that in Parliament?

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In Parliament?

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Laugh at him?

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Sure.

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Yeah, anything's, you can do anything there.

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You just can't call somebody a liar or corrupt, you can't make

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an outright allegation like that.

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That's unparliamentary.

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Not to another MP, but to anyone else, fair game.

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Did you see Clive, by the way, claiming that three of Australia's politicians

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had been members of the Great Australia Party or United Australia Party?

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And, you know, apparently he cancelled his National Press Club luncheon speech today.

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Why the hell did they invite him?

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Where is their

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Because he's a thought leader.

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Where is their I don't know, what do you call it?

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No shame.

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Like, why didn't they just Whoever came up with the idea of let's

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have Clive talk, couldn't somebody stop and say, this is crazy.

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Oh yeah, maybe he's not been vaccinated.

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Yeah.

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Apparently because of COVID symptoms, yeah.

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Joe, you're chipping in as much as you ever do, and you're just

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doing it via the messaging here.

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This is going to be a rambling episode, I can tell already.

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Okay, yeah, Morrison, and it's clearly lining up as he can't say

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anything about the economy because the deficit has just blown out.

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He can't say anything about unemployment, because it's not looking good.

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He can't hang his hat on the usual things that he'd like to.

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He can't find anything, because Labor is just agreeing to, with everything he does

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in terms of immigration, boat deporting, New Zealanders, you know, whatever he

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tries to pick up as a topic, Labor is just saying, yeah, we agree with you.

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So really, he's down to, he's down to China.

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Labor is agreeing with him and in fact has a far more consistent

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line on China than the Liberals do.

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The hypocrisy of the Liberals in relation to China is breathtaking and this is

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the thing that gets me with mainstream media is they will repeat the assertions

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of Dutton and Morrison and whatnot.

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As they make them in the current day, without any reference to how

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much the Liberals were bleating only, only four or five years ago

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about how wonderful China was.

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And criticizing the Labor Party for having the temerity to criticize China over its

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human rights, and in particular, like, like the, the human rights aspect with

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the Uyghurs and, and you know, holy, the horrible, the Chinese that liberals wanted

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to sign an extradition treaty with China and labor said, no, we can't do that.

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And the Liberals criticised them, going, oh, you're going to

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offend our Chinese partners here.

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We've got this marvellous partnership arrangement and you're endangering it.

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This was only four or five years ago, so, you know, they're struggling

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to find areas of difference.

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And they're completely manufacturing a difference with the Labor Party

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that doesn't exist on a, on ground where actually the Labor Party can,

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can just take the, sit on top of the hill and pop them off because they've

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got a much better credentials for having taken on the, the Chinese.

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Do you want to say something, Joe, or no?

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I was trying to copy Shae's link, but I Okay.

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Stuck it up.

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Okay.

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So let me just try and find this.

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Yeah, I'm gonna try and find the right one.

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This is, this is where we don't get the story on the

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hypocrisy of The Liberal Party.

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Like, you just don't get it in the mainstream media.

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And I was on Twitter, and Kevin Rudd has basically produced some video

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which demonstrates what the Liberals were saying only a few short years

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ago and how they were criticising Labor for criticising China.

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Goes on for a bit, but I'll play this and, because you just don't see it anywhere

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else, we'll play this one and have a look.

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I have never heard.

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A Chinese leader declared that his country would be fully democratic by 2050.

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Taking President Xi's assurances at face value.

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It's absolutely clear that there are human rights abuses in Tibet.

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Brenda Nelson criticized him for making the, uh, the comments publicly.

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Brenda Nelson said, I don't know whether it's wise to have broadcast it

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as publicly as he seems to be doing.

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Now that's pathetic, isn't it?

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And the granting of a visa to Uyghur separatist leader, Rabia Khadija.

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Former Immigration Minister Philip Ruddick says it was a mistake.

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Julie Bishop mounting an argument which had only one conclusion, that,

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that was that Miss Kadir should not have been allowed into Australia.

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A statement which is sure to please Beijing.

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Mr Downer says in the case of a military clash over Taiwan, the ANZUS treaty

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with Washington is symbolic, and that Canberra would not side with Taiwan.

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Last week, the Prime Minister appeared to back in Beijing's

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approach instead of Australia's.

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But did he make a mistake in that comment?

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No.

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Landbridge's control of Darwin Port has caused considerable angst

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within Australia's defence community and annoyed American allies.

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Even concerned the US President Barack Obama.

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Who raised the issue directly with Malcolm Turnbull.

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We have to act in the interest, the national interest of our country.

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That's what's happened in the Port of Darwin.

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The meeting revealed by the ABC was set up by former Liberal Senator Santos Santoro.

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Now a lobbyist, to whom Mr Huang allegedly paid thousands of dollars.

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to secure the private lunch with Mr.

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Dutton.

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Former Trade Minister Andrew Robb has begun working for the Chinese company,

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which last year controversially gained control of Darwin's port.

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If people are suggesting anything about it, then frankly, uh, they're Impugning

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our finest ever trade minister and they're doing it without any basis at all.

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Andrew Robb has accused Australia's security agencies of

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spreading anti China sentiment.

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If I could see the reason for it, fine.

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But the evidence is not there.

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We see a lot of nose touching by the security people.

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If you only knew what I know, you'd be horrified.

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The emphasis on naval power is a direct response to China's

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increased military spending.

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The opposition says that's confusing.

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It makes no sense for Australia in 2009 to base its long term strategy on the highly

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contentious proposition that Australia is on an inevitable collision course.

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with a militarily aggressive China.

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The Chinese agree.

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The nation's shipbuilding industry is fighting for survival as the

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government considers where to buy its next submarines from.

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You wonder why I wouldn't trust them to build a canoe.

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Marking the end of car manufacturing in this country.

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The move, which followed security advice from ASIO, has sparked furious

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denials from the company's Australian board members who include Former

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Foreign Minister Alexander Downer.

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Andrew Robb and Malcolm Turnbull suggested that maybe the ban could be lifted on

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the Chinese communications company.

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This is just completely absurd.

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I have also reassured China that so called quadrilateral dialogue with India

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is not something that we are pursuing.

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This is the fifth year in a row that the Australian government

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has cut Australian aid.

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China wants to have more Belt and Road cooperation with

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the Pacific Island nations.

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It's very much in our national interest for us to have an

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extradition treaty, uh, with China.

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It was signed by the former Prime Minister John Howard's government in 2007.

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It does remain the policy of the Australian government.

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With a comprehensive strategic partnership established, this

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is a historic and memorable day.

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We have a, a strong and growing comprehensive strategic

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partnership with China.

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We're one of a relatively small number of countries that have a comprehensive

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Well, we have a comprehensive strategic partnership, uh, at official

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status, uh, with China and that's something we take very seriously and

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we work very hard on to maintain.

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Well, there you go.

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Like, that wasn't that long ago that all that was happening.

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They are so, and they're saying, they're, they're going to go into

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this next election saying, Well, clearly we're the party that you

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can rely on to stand up to China.

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That's their best shot so far.

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I was just making Except it seems like the retirement plan for all of their ministers

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is to go and work for Chinese companies.

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Indeed.

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The Honour.

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Rob.

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You have to ask, what happened?

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What happened between then and now that they are so anti China?

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What happened?

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They got in government.

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They were in government during all that.

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They were in, they were, they were in government.

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What happened was, what happened, dear listener, was we had a pandemic and Scott

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Morrison said, we need weapons inspector like powers to go into these countries

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and find out what's really going on.

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Meaning, people just going into China and wandering around the wet markets

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to And poking around, but basically I think they wanted to go into the weapons

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Oh, not the weapons, the research labs.

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Well, wherever They wanted to They wanted, basically, weapons inspector like powers.

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When we talk about weapons inspector like powers, this is what we had with Iran,

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where we cut a deal with them, and we said, we're going to let you back into

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the world community, but we're worried you're going to make a nuclear bomb.

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So essentially Our satellites are going to be looking at your territory 24 7, and if

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we see a suspicious movement of vehicles or a suspicious building, we will demand

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the right to enter any building that we want to go into, just to check that

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you're not building a nuclear bomb there.

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And if you agree to that, then we'll let you enter the world's

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economic community again.

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And Iran said, oh, okay, they complied with everything.

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Donald Trump of course said, I just don't like Iran and cancelled the whole deal.

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So, and Iran said, well, we'll start making nuclear weapons again.

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But, you know, that's the sort of what weapons inspector powers mean.

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And That's what Morrison came out with and said.

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And what did China say in return?

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Well, guess what?

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Maybe we don't need that shipment of barley, that wine.

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We'll still take your iron ore, because we need that.

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There's a few things here.

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So they essentially said, not happy with you, we're not going to buy your stuff.

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We're a customer and we are withdrawing our purchases from you.

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Is essentially what happened.

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They didn't, you know, start pointing missiles at us

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that weren't pointed before.

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They didn't do anything overtly military.

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The ships that are floating around in territorial waters that are getting

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lasers, that are, that are shooting lasers up, they were always there.

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That's all that happened, was Morrison said, Oh, we need weapons

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inspector like powers, without any regard to the history of China.

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A hundred years of embarrassment and the idea that they could just be pushed

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around and China said no, we are not copying that from you guys and we're going

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to withhold buying some stuff from you.

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Now if Australia had just shut up, then it all would have recommenced within

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six to twelve months and we'd be back on board, but no, they just had to

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crank up the pressure the whole time and argue that China is the bad guys.

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That's how we've ended up from the video that you've just listened to, to where

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China is just increasingly militant and they're the monsters of the world.

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In a few short years.

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Does anybody out there disagree with me?

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What have we got here?

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Event Horizon.

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Gain of function inspection.

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Actually not an entirely silly idea as long as both parties agree to it.

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There's little downside.

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Is that the weapons inspection stuff?

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I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to.

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This is around viral.

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So basically gain of function is we take a virus, we see if it can gain

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functions to make it more deadly.

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Right.

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So that's, that's what was happening in the Wuhan lab.

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And there's all sorts of conspiracy theories that they engineered this

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SARS virus to be particularly deadly, and that it, that's how it had leaked,

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was that it was a human engineered, supposedly for, the reason they do

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it is to go, what's the next leap?

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What's the next?

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virus that's going to hit us.

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What's the next pandemic?

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How do we counter it?

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And so they look at the viruses, they try and coerce them in different directions

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to go, all right, if it does this, then it will be particularly deadly and we've

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already pre built a vaccine for it.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Yep.

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So this is what gain of function is.

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And they're saying if we went in and inspected and made sure that it

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was all above board and that there was nothing nefarious going on,

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then that would be a good thing.

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Sounds a bit different to the sort of weapons inspector like system

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that, that Morrison was proposing.

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Well, this was more like biological weapons.

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Yeah.

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So anyway, that's, um, that's how we've got on with this.

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Shay in the chat room is saying, on Insiders, one of the guests was

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claiming that other foreign powers were not only impressed, but had

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sought to construct Australian government on how to stand up to China.

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Other countries!

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Have asked us for advice on how to conduct a relationship with,

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or how to stand up to China?

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How to do it successfully?

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I think that was Macron, wasn't it?

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Yeah, Macron would be asking us.

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Yeah, wouldn't he?

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I don't think I know.

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That had to be somebody from the Institute of Public Affairs saying that.

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Goodness me.

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Because if anyone would want advice from us on how to stuff up

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a relationship with China, that's what we would be good at doing.

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So, you know, that's where we've come to with China and, uh, the fact that the

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Morrison government thinks that that's its Trump card in terms of an election,

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even small target labor is just Armed with stuff that they can throw at these guys.

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I, I couldn't imagine a worse topic to try and pick on as your, as your best argument

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as to why people should vote for you.

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Labor must be, well, I think they were, they were hoping that the Australian

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public have a short memory, which they do.

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They do, but it's so even the labor party can, they've got so many

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arrows to, to fire off and just knock them off with this stuff.

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It should be a piece of cake.

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It seems extraordinary to me that that's a topic they would, a

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ground they'd choose to fight on.

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China relationships.

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Anyway, that's what they're going to do, um, not going to be jobs

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and growth, it's going to be car key election, China, China, China.

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And you know, maybe you're right, because if the general public doesn't

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remember all that, and has no knowledge, and just gets beaten over the head

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with evil, awful China, they had a ship out in international waters

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that we were innocently surveilling and got lasered, we really need

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some strong guys now in parliament.

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Otherwise, who knows what might happen.

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I can run that argument successfully.

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But Albanese condemned the laser firing incident.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So it's not like he said our military were harassing them.

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Yes.

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And it is, it's, it's very, very normal if you have a foreign warship

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in your water, that you tail it.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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What else are you going to do?

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That's what your job is.

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Just like these guys.

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They're out there surveilling, they're practising all the time.

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They used to surveil submarines, like they would be following them and

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dropping stuff in the ocean, checking where they were, and so yeah, a lot

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of that goes on, and that's, goes on all the time, no problem with that.

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But yes, the Chinese, wrong to be sending a laser beam and, you know,

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who knows what harm might eventually happen, so they're not entirely innocent.

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But, ah dear me.

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Anyway, we'll see what happens.

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So that's their hypocrisy.

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In Parliament, Morrison.

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I don't think you subscribed, I don't think you called Albanesia,

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I think it was Some other guy you described as a Manchurian

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Candidate, so, Manchurian Candidate.

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Did you ever watch that movie, Joe?

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I never saw it.

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I'm aware of it.

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Hmm.

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It's a really, I think it must be an old black and white, very old fashioned

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sort of movie, but I think Well, the book was published in 59, apparently.

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Yeah.

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So, essentially they kind of brainwashed some guy, and It was the

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Deputy Labour Leader, Richard Myles.

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Okay, who was accused of being a Manchurian candidate, where In the

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movie, he's sort of brainwashed where He was a normal average patriot, and

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they'd somehow inserted some brainwashing trigger into him, which, which just

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needed a trigger to happen, and then he would convert and become a, his

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ideology would completely switch over.

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And that's the accusation against Richard Marles, a Manchurian candidate.

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Oh, it's a farcical.

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There was an interesting, Darren Brown, the magician, did an episode where he

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basically tried to get a guy to the point where he would push somebody off the

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edge of, uh, off the roof of a building.

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Really?

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And what happened?

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Well, that would be giving the show away.

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I'll point you to the episode.

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Oh, I'm not going to watch it.

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What happens?

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Spoiler alert.

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I think he did.

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Right.

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He tried, he did try and push him, but obviously there's

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some safety apparatus there.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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But, but it was setting it up so that.

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This guy was in a position to push, or was in the position to

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be embarrassed or lose money.

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I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was all a set up, because a lot

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of Derren Brown shows are all about putting people into psychological

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situations to see how they react.

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Right, okay.

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Anyway, that's meant you're in Candidate.

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So I've been complaining about mainstream media and In particular, I've found the

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ABC really disappointing because, you know, with all this China stuff, they

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basically just repeat the government's allegation and just say, the government

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says this, without really providing any context around it, so they're more or

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less a mouthpiece for the government.

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I don't think that's the role of the national broadcaster.

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If the, if the politicians make outlandish statements, they

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shouldn't just be repeated.

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I've really They've got to give lots of opportunity for the opposition

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then to contradict that crazy argument or provide somebody else

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who'll, who'll contradict it.

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So I've been finding the ABC really disappointing in, in just spewing forth

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the mainstream narrative about China.

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But having said that, and I really don't like David Spears on Insiders, but having

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said that, he was particularly good with the guy from the Institute of Public

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Affairs, can't remember his name, but have a listen to this clip as He really gets

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hold of this guy and he's well prepared and this is how, we had one last week

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with the, the spokesperson in the U.

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S.

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was confronted by the reporter and said, you're talking about

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declassified information, what, what declassified information?

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And the spokesperson said, I just gave it to you.

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And he said, well, you just said it.

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That's not proof.

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You're just saying it.

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And we're sort of watching and listening to that and thinking.

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That was good.

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We should have a bit more of that.

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And on this occasion, I have to give full marks to Spears and how he handled

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It'll come to me at the end of the clip.

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I'll play this one.

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Alright, let's talk about Richard Marles then.

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The Prime Minister called him a Manchurian candidate.

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You disagree?

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Oh, of course he's not a Manchurian candidate, and the Prime Minister

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very quickly withdrew that comment.

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I note when Anthony Albanese made the same comment a day later towards the

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Prime Minister, he didn't withdraw it.

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So I think the Labor Party's outrage over this is confected.

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I think what we know is happening here, David, is that the Labor Party has the

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most left wing leader since Scott Whitlam.

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They're very sensitive about their weakness on China and

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they're very uncomfortable with that now being pointed out.

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We'll come to that, but do you have any concerns about Richard Marles?

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No, I don't have any concerns about his loyalty to Australia.

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I think he gave a very bad speech in Beijing in September 2019.

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What was wrong with the speech?

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Well, he proposed that there should be closer military

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cooperation between Australia and the People's Liberation Army.

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That's the same People's Liberation Army that's out there aiming

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lasers at our Royal Australian Air Force pilots right now.

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Well he said in that speech that Australia and China should explore quote political

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cooperation and even defence cooperation.

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What's wrong about that?

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I think we shouldn't be cooperating with what has become a very serious

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strategic adversary that is trying to coerce and intimidate Australia.

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Because a month after he gave that speech, the Defence Department issued

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this press release announcing the next round of military exercises

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with China, Operation Pandaroo.

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These are military exercises your government, the

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coalition government, began.

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How come it's bad for Labor to suggest it, but okay for your side to do it?

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They were long standing, pre existing arrangements in what

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Richard Miles is suggesting.

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They began under the Coalition, yeah, in 2015.

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Yes, but they were long standing, long before Richard Miles speech, and what he

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was suggesting is we should take it up an extra tempo, we should increase it even

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further on a political and military level.

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I'm not sure if you're verballing him there, Senator, I've got the quotes.

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He said, Our starting point Has to be that we respect China, deeply

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value our relationship with China.

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We must seek to build it and not just in economic terms but also through

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exploring political cooperation and even defence cooperation.

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He's not saying off the tempo on military exercises.

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I think it's very clear he was.

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Why else would he make reference to it?

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If all he was saying, David, is we should just continue what we've already been

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doing, then why did he say it at all?

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And why has it never been posted on his website?

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Today, the only place you can read Richard Myles speech is on my website, not on his.

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Don't you think that that's a bit strange?

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Don't you think that he's obviously embarrassed about something in that

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speech and doesn't want to talk about it?

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Should the Prime Minister post everything, all the speeches he gives on his website?

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I don't know, I don't run the Prime Minister's website.

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It's up to him to post what he wants to post.

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But I think it's strange that Richard Myles hasn't posted it still today.

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Should he, the PM, perhaps post his speech he gave to the

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Christian Churches Congress?

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That's a matter for the PM, I doubt it.

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That was good preparation, obviously, in that interview.

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Somebody had finally, a journalist had finally done some preparation,

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had anticipated the answers.

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And was ready, some good probing questions, and wasn't

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going to take bullshit.

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And where he tried to verbal, Miles, he said, No, that's not what he said.

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I've got it right here.

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Like, that's what they should all be doing, all the time.

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I thought that was, that was good work.

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James Patterson was.

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And also saying, hang on, should the, the Prime Minister be publishing his

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speeches to the Christian churches?

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Great, like, that was really good stuff.

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Really good stuff.

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And it shines out like a beacon, because we just don't get it often enough.

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But yeah, it shows it can be done, and I thought that was outstanding.

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And, you know, it even showed things like, the Defence Department announced

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Pandaroo military exercises, like we used to be doing military exercises with the

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Chinese, under the Liberal government.

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I'm just shocked by the name.

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Pandaroo.

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Exactly.

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Pandaroo.

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Yeah, I hadn't thought of it, you're right, Pandaroo.

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Panda, Kangaroo.

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Yep.

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I mean, seriously, guys.

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Operation Pandaroo.

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Yep.

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That is good.

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There we go.

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Good work.

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Spears, more of that please from the ABC and for other journalists.

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Do some homework, anticipate the answers, have the quotes on

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a piece of paper ready to go.

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Don't accept the bullshit.

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Stay off Twitter for a day and just read and prepare.

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Alright, that's China.

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Oh, just the other thing.

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And the whole, the Liberals were the guys in charge when the Northern

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Territory Government sold the port of Darwin to a Chinese company.

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Scott Morrison was the treasurer.

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I mean, he was the one who could have, with the Foreign Investment

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Review Board, kiboshed it.

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I mean.

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The federal government will try and say it was their decision, not ours,

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but it was a territory government.

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The Commonwealth can override the Territory whenever it likes, and you

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might remember that when the Territory decided that um, Long Tree Sister dying

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was a good idea, and passed laws, Kevin Andrews in the federal government said,

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Oh, we can't have that, and quickly passed some laws overriding the state Territory.

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And also Victoria with the Belt and Roads.

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Yes.

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Yep, all in favour of that.

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Like, there's any number of classic examples where Morrison

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himself was the treasurer, was part of the cabinet at the time.

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This is not ancient history.

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It's very recent history.

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Just how desperate they are to try and pick this as a

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topic to run an election on.

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Now, Ukraine, I had some stuff which who knows what's gonna happen there

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in terms of the Donbass and whatever.

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You know, the military industrial complex will be very happy.

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Because it just means more reason to spend more money on arms,

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so that'll be good for them.

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And, so yeah, it's been very difficult to get the mainstream media to speak

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properly on China, or to hear a full contextual position on the Ukraine.

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Even something as simple as Sydney's train debacle yesterday, the Sydney

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Morning Herald, like Sydney's premier newspaper, was describing it as

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being caused by a union strike.

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And it was not the result of the union strike.

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The union said, we've got drivers, we're ready, we're willing and we're able to

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run the network as we normally would.

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It was the government.

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Who pulled the pin and stopped the trains, not the unions.

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But the Sydney Morning Herald was running it and calling it

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a union strike that caused it.

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So, I mean, we've come to a point where we expect Anything from the Murdoch papers.

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There used to be a time when you could trust the Fairfax

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media, but that's since changed.

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Since Nine took over Fairfax and we had Costello in charge of the whole thing.

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Like, they've gone down the tube.

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As I said before, often the ABC is quite weak on things and is

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just repeating LNP press releases.

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Have you ever corrected the fact that The Liberals are not

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the better economic managers?

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No, not in the mainstream, no.

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I can't think of any, you know, not even the ABC has fat checked.

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No, you won't see any of that.

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So, we've got to, I think, look outside the mainstream media as to What other

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options are there for getting information?

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And, it's not just about accurate reporting, it's about the topics that

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they choose to report or, or not report.

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I mean, really, the ABC, what the hell were you doing reporting on Scomo washing

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the hair of that woman in a salon?

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Like, when you saw that, you should have walked out the door

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and said, we're not reporting that.

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This is not news.

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This is just some crazy stuff.

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He leaves his son in Hawaii.

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Yes, yeah, the fake son, yes.

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They did do that.

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60 Minutes, of course, used to be a great program.

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Long time ago.

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Now they've got his puff piece.

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Things like when he walks into a factory and starts doing some amateur welding.

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There shouldn't be cameras there.

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Just don't go.

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As soon as you see him put on a high vis vest, turn the other way.

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Don't show it.

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ABC, these guys have screwed you over for years.

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Why would you help them out?

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Why?

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Because if they don't, they're going to be even nastier.

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That's what they're afraid of, but let them be nastier.

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So He would have actually had a very tough night the next night at about

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2am, Scott Morrison, after that welding.

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You get a flash and Did he not wear his glasses?

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Oh, he, he, you haven't seen it?

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No.

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Oh, of course, because you don't watch the news.

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He was at this place, they put a welder's protective mask on him, and

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it was the type that, that clicks on when the flash happens, so you look

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through, it's clear, and it automatically darkens when the flash happens.

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And the video shows him going up to the thing with the weld, and he

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lifts it up, tacks it, goes flash, and then he pulls it back down again.

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And you can do serious, well, you know, a flash like that, you'll wake

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up at two o'clock the next morning with just this, as if somebody's rubbing

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sandpaper on your eyes, apparently.

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So that's what would have happened to him the next day, and he would have had Eye

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drops and an aesthetic happening to him.

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I'll try and play that next week.

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It's just worth seeing because he looks so goofy doing it and his hand comes in

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from the side trying to stop him from lifting the thing but it's too late.

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You know, mainstream media, ABC at least, don't go.

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Don't show that shit.

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Don't pander to that.

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Part of it is what are they showing?

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Is it accurate?

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It's not so much is it accurate, but what are they even showing?

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Now I did hear an allegation, a rumour, that Frydenberg was

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pushing for a Liberal Party spell.

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Because he was worried.

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He basically didn't want Dutton to be the next Prime Minister.

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Right.

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So there was, there's, there's Join, get in the queue, right and vert.

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That Scotty is going to lose, and so dump him now, get Frydenberg in,

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just to stop Dutton taking over.

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Right.

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Well, at the rate they're both going, both of them will quite possibly not

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be in the next Parliament anyway.

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So, both Frydenberg and Dutton are in serious trouble.

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Oh, fingers crossed.

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I, yeah, I've been in this electorate for 17 years now, and every time they vote

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him back in, so I can't see him losing.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Anyway.

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Oh dear listener, what are we up to?

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8.

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35.

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Okay.

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I think there's a problem with mainstream media in terms of what they choose to

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talk about and then the accuracy and the context surrounding what they do

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report and really the question is where else can we get information to try and

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work out what's going on in this world?

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So, I think you need to have a combination of different things, books,

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yes, real books, independent news organisations, blogs, newsletters,

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podcasts, maybe follow some people on Twitter, maybe some things on YouTube.

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I think, I mean, when you, when you understand what Chomsky was saying about

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manufacturing consent, when you've got these large media organisations who

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rely on Advertising, then they have to produce stuff that will keep their

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advertisers happy and advertisers with lots of money don't like Articles

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that criticise people who have lots of money and might, for example, suggest

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taxing people with lots of money or regulating people with lots of money.

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People with power won't appreciate news items that talk about

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decreasing the power that they have.

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So, there's an inherent problem in that the large Media organisations, in order

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to sustain themselves, have to pander to a particular powerful group, and

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consequently we don't get the information we need about those powerful groups.

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That information can't come from those sources because they'll

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go out of business if they start criticising the hand that feeds them.

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So, it's really up to the smaller, independent sources as to getting

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information because they don't care.

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Like on this podcast, I have no sponsors that I need to worry about.

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But also I've seen a lot of who I thought were independent thinkers

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chasing the right wing money.

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Yes.

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In the last couple of years.

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Correct.

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People who used to seem to be rational.

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have been spouting more and more radical views.

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And I think that's to do with following the money.

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There's a large disaffected audience who are willing to throw money at these people

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as long as they spout from the hemp sheet.

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Correct.

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A classic example would be someone like Dave Rubin.

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Who had a sort of an online talk show where he was doing quite well

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interviewing the likes of Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris and a whole

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bunch of other people from the intellectual dark web in particular.

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And in order to maintain the support base that he developed, what he found

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was that the people who were paying him the most money were from the right.

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And if he was to do anything that would be leftish in any sense, then

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those people would abandon him.

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So he became more and more right pandering to a particular audience that he'd found.

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So this is where I still admire someone like Sam Harris because I

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still think he says things that are objectionable to that right wing.

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So he was You know, merciless in his scathing assessment

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of Trump along the whole way.

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So, he would have had a lot of potential Trump supporters and he would have

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lost a lot of supporters because of his continual rightful bashing of Trump,

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but Sam Harris was prepared to do it.

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But I think his model, and he talks about it often, is good because he

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does have a cross section and he's getting enough money from what he's

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doing that he Can feel that he can say whatever he wants to without it having

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a significant impact on his finance, so.

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Isn't he a university professor anyway?

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I don't think he does that anymore.

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I think he's just relying on sort of Patreon type stuff.

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Yep, and an app for meditation and Things like that.

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I don't think he does any of that stuff.

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You need people who are independent in the sense that they feel they

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can say things and it's not going to affect them financially, so they can

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be sort of fearless in saying stuff.

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And there is a risk that some of these commentators will naturally,

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maybe acquire, for example, a right wing audience, and, and because

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they get greedy, and they want more and more money, they will

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pander to that right wing audience.

Speaker:

So even though, realistically, they could say whatever they like, they might lose

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a third of their audience overnight if they were to come out with something.

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Uh, of a strong leftish bent.

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So there is that.

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The most independent ones Or even a strong pro vaccine bent.

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Yes, yeah.

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The most independent ones you'll get, people doing it where it's

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not their source of income that they're actually relying on.

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Because If everybody disappeared from the Patreon because of something I'd

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said, well, big deal, like, you know.

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Yeah, or if you even, or at least be aware, like, not everyone's perfect

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because you'd say, okay, well, I know this guy's got a strong right

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wing audience or a strong left wing audience and maybe he says things.

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And, you know, maybe it's hard to find these people who are truly independent,

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and what you then have to do is pick one from the left and one from the right,

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so you hear from both sides for example.

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I remember growing up just listening to French radio, and

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it was interesting because their current affairs were just different.

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I was hearing about different parts of the world.

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So obviously the UK, I'd hear all about the former colonies,

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the former British colonies.

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But, France, I was hearing all about the, uh, independence

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movements in New Caledonia.

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Yes.

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Which I heard nothing about in the UK.

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Sticking to mainstream media gives you a very narrow cross section, you know, it's

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not a cross section, it's a very narrow channel of what's going on in the world.

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Time to break out, dear listener, and time to explore some other sources.

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You can do this two ways, really.

Speaker:

You can go onto these sites and subscribe to their newsletters, and

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your inbox will be filled with news.

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Emails from these groups, or you could use an RSS feed reader where

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you basically, do you use that, Joe?

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I see you nodding your head.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You use one?

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Which one do you use?

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I'm on a Mac, so it's a different one.

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I bought a bundle of software and I'm using News Explorer, it's called, but

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there's another one which was called, that was the name of some European city.

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Yep.

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Which is an open source one.

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Okay, so there's different RSS feed readers out there, dear listener.

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I use one called InnoReader, which costs me a couple of dollars a

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month or something like that.

Speaker:

So essentially if you find people that you want to follow, you can go

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into their blog, for example, and it teaches you, you just sort of subscribe

Speaker:

and As they do blog posts, it'll all appear in this one sort of app that you

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can, it saves clogging up your inbox.

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I find it useful anyway, otherwise you start getting just

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dozens and dozens of emails.

Speaker:

So, so think about that or just subscribe and start getting newsletters.

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So, in terms of blogs, top of the list, I'd have to say John Menardew Blog.

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If you are not subscribed to their newsletter, or you're not subscribed

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via an RSS feed reader, then Do it now.

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There you go.

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That's my RSS feed.

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There you go.

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So that Pearls and Irritations is the, so that picture of

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this shell is John Menehue.

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Yep.

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So, yep.

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Yep.

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And you, the way that it sort of appears in a magazine style

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format in your, in that app.

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So, and you can quickly read the headline, decide if it's an article

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you want to read or not read.

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So John Menehue blog, I think, um, well qualified people with

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good experience, particular on the China and Ukraine matters.

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People who are former diplomats, uh, people with real world experience

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giving their opinions and I find that, uh, a really good source.

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That'd be number one.

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It's free.

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It doesn't cost you anything.

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Second source of my favourite would be, would be Crikey at the moment.

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I'm really enjoying Crikey.

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I see it as a good independent source.

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And, of course, that's one that's a paid subscription, but it's not that expensive

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and definitely worth giving a go.

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For the number of articles you get, I think it's well worth the money.

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They did an excellent series on religious groups as well, not so long ago.

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I find they are obviously on the left side.

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But I think they're fair in their criticism of this shambolic Liberal

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government, and I think they'll be pretty fair in their condemnation of

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whatever the Labor Party gets up to when if, if and when it gets in next.

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So, John Menedubog, Crikey, that would be A really good starting

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point now in terms the conversation.

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The conversation I, I've stopped be hit and miss.

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I've stopped trawling through it.

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I found there's too many misses and not enough hits, and I found it a bit.

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Conversation is supposed to be articles by academics written in a style which

Speaker:

is easily digestible for the layman, but I just found their stuff a bit.

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Week at the end of the day, quite often.

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So, I just went a long time without finding anything useful.

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I kind of dropped off with the conversation, but give that

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one a go, the conversation.

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Just on independent media.

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I mean, The Guardian is good.

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It's free.

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There's a thing called Independent Australia.

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It's a free.

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Place to go, website, sort of a news type website, has some good writers there.

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You were talking about earlier, Joe, Al Jazeera, you thought was not

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bad, provided it was not on Middle Eastern issues, was that right?

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Basically, yeah, I mean, it was certainly, when you're looking at

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European news or US news, it was a slightly, I wouldn't say unbiased,

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but certainly a different viewpoint than you'll hear in the Western media.

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And quite often you'll hear some of the backgrounds that Is less, less flattering.

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Worth giving a try, and you also mentioned, uh, Deutsche Welle, is it?

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Deutsche Welle.

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DW.

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com, which is German World Service.

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That's as sort of independent news organisations.

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Just getting back to blogs.

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So I mentioned John Menardieu, which is really a blog.

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Michael West is good.

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The Michael Hudson is good, if you want to talk about economics.

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He was the guy who I did the Super Imperialism.

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Episode on.

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He blogs about different things to do with economic issues.

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Yanis Varoufakis.

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There's a group called Mint Press News.

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So this maybe should appear under independent media rather than a blog,

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but Mint Press News is quite left wing, but you get lots of good stuff on there.

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And there's a lady called Caitlin Johnston.

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Have you heard of her, Joe?

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Caitlin Johnston?

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No, She's a blogger, and she's just got a really good turn of phrase,

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good writing style, a lot of it is bashing of imperialist America.

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So, she concentrates a lot on that, because as she sees it, it's the most

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important topic in the world, and you can't talk about it often enough.

Speaker:

So, check out Caitlin Johnston.

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Have you heard of Bellingcat?

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I have.

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So they were, they were the group, they're open source journalism.

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Right.

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Or citizen journalism.

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And so they do a lot of internet searches and putting together things

Speaker:

like photographs from a news event and then using Google Earth to look at where

Speaker:

it is and what time of day, given the shadows and doing lots of So, um, I

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think that's research behind stories.

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Okay.

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And they were the ones, if you remember the, who was the Russian opposition leader

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who got I can't remember his name, but he returned to Russia and got thrown in jail.

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That one?

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Yes.

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So they were involved in tracking down the FSB operatives and then got him

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to call up one of the guys Pretending he was a superior officer and asking

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them why the operation screwed up.

Speaker:

And they recorded the whole conversation, it's a half an hour

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long conversation with this guy going, so what went wrong with the mission?

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How come you didn't kill him?

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And it was actually the guy they tried to kill asking these questions.

Speaker:

And they're going, well, you know, everything went according to plan.

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We did everything we had to, we smeared the poison on his underwear and we

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went in afterwards to clean it up.

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And so they have this full confession.

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Right.

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Just didn't put enough poison in his underwear.

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I can't remember.

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Well, it was just, he collapsed in Germany and the German doctors were

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curious enough to just try something that managed to cancel the, an antidote.

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Right.

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German efficiency is what.

Speaker:

Is what brought them undone.

Speaker:

Basically, but, and it was Russian inefficiency that undid the FSB.

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The corruption is so bad that you can buy the passport database.

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Okay.

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And the FSB had bought a block or have been allocated a block of

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sequential numbers of passports.

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And so you go through these records and the addresses are

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all an FSB barracks in Moscow.

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Right, okay.

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So that's Belling, that's Bellingcat.

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Bellingcat, as in putting a bell on a cat.

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Bellingcat.

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Yep, alright, check that one out.

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Podcasts.

Speaker:

Philip Adams Late Night Live still gets some good guests, but, um, it's patchy.

Speaker:

I found one recently actually I quite liked called Decoding the Gurus.

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Have you heard of that one, Joe?

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No.

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So they look at so called gurus like Jordan Peterson and guys like that

Speaker:

and basically Analyse what they are saying, and this Australian guy, well,

Speaker:

there's an Australian guy and an Irish guy, the Irish guy's got this really

Speaker:

strange staccato voice that's sort of off putting initially, but they're

Speaker:

quite good, so decoding the gurus.

Speaker:

If you are deciding you want to follow somebody like, heaven forbid,

Speaker:

Jordan Peterson or, or, or someone like that, type in to Google before

Speaker:

you start, you know, Jordan Peterson, Criticism, or anybody like this.

Speaker:

It's just Type their name and criticism, and then see what the

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alternative story is before you get too far into following them.

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But, uh, Decoding the Gurus, not a bad podcast.

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And otherwise, I'm looking for a new podcast, because I can't, I've sort of

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fallen out of love with a lot of them.

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I've been listening to Behind the Bastards.

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Right.

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Which is more historical.

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Right.

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And they usually do a two episode per person.

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And so we've had Robert Baden Powell, who was the leader of the Boy Scout movement.

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The Percy Maxim, I think it was the inventor of the Maxim machine gun.

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Okay.

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But they've also had Jeff Bezos, more modern people as well.

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Is it American?

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So there's, it is American.

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And unfortunately the guy, the main presenter, who is a historian.

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Or at least an amateur historian generally invites a co host on with him, and

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the co host is a comedian, and they, they go off into little sidetracks,

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but the actual, the content is good.

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And they did, he did a six parter on his own, which was all about

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the January 6th insurrection.

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Right.

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And it was exploring the different groups and what led up to the insurrection.

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Okay, Behind the Bastards, I'll give that one a go.

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The Assault on America is the other episode, the other, and that's a That's

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the name of the podcast or the episode?

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No, The Assault on America is the name of the podcast.

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Okay, yep.

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It's um, eight, eight episodes long, and that's just about January 6th.

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Yeah, I was listening to Pep, the guys from Planet X, Planet

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America, Planet Extra, but Okay.

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Ah, yeah, this went on a bit too much, maybe a bit like what I'm doing right now.

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But, having said that, dear listener Like, at the end of the

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day, articles, blogs, podcasts.

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It's a little bit of, uh, fast food, really.

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It's a fast food hit.

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Really, books are where you're going to learn the most.

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And then you'll be able to put the fast food in its proper context.

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So, let's talk about some books that you should think about.

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And number one, I would reckon The Shock Doctrine by Naomi

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Klein was a really good one.

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It showed what's happened in Latin America and other countries.

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When disasters occur and the IMF comes in and international,

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multinational companies come in and basically rape the local population.

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Shocking and eye opening and a good read, so the Shock Doctrine by Naomi

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Klein would be A good one to start with in terms of understanding how

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power works, and I did a review of The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins.

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I quite liked that book, which was another example of just pure military

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skullduggery by America in terms of Indonesia, Chile, Guatemala.

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Excellent sort of demonstration of, of what's going on there.

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The Divide by Jason Hickel looked at, again, Latin American countries and

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how wealth has just been extracted from them and it's made it very

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difficult for them to get on their feet.

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The Global Cold War by Odd Arn Wested, not bad, really demonstrates that.

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A lot of the time the Soviet Union was basically, you know, the sort of myth

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is that the Soviet Union was, well it's not the myth, but the story is that the

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Soviet Union was really encouraging the Growth of communism in various communist

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friendly countries around the world.

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Domino theory.

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Yeah, and really in this book he explains a lot of the time the Soviet

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Union was telling these countries, slow down, don't do anything, just,

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you're not ready yet, don't do it.

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So, which is what, you know, they said to Mao as well, was Don't

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do it, you're not ready yet.

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So, you know, so much for sort of pushing communism.

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A lot of the time they're actually dissuading these communist

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cells from taking action.

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This view of life by David Sloane Wilson in terms of human biology is good.

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If you're not reading a book on the go all the time and you're

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just consuming articles then you're really just consuming fast food.

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You need some books and it'll give proper context to what's going

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on because we are being Misled.

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If you are watching mainstream media, you are not getting the context of

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what's happening, why these events are taking place, and you're not

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really understanding what's going on.

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Yeah, that would be my recommendation.

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Game of Mates is another book.

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Right.

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For sort of political machinations, is that right?

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This is about corruption in politics, mostly local government,

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but is a Queensland uni and a Sydney uni professor who wrote it.

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Okay.

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So it was, how do people get captured by the system?

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How do we, how do we fix it?

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Because, dear listener, I mean, we're in trouble, aren't we?

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I mean, we're in an information age where realistically so much information is

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available, but it's now being contaminated so much that we don't know what to trust.

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So the only way is to arm yourself with knowledge so that you can spot snake

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oil salesmen and avoid their arguments.

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And really the only way is to educate yourself and you're going to have to

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do it by breaking out of mainstream media where there is a natural

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incentive not to question existing power structures because they're the

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people paying the advertising fees and there's a conflict of interest there.

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Craig B.

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in the chat room says, Skeptic's Guide to the Universe, and yes, Craig has mentioned

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Behind the Bastards to me via some email.

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You haven't listened to Skeptic's Guide?

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guide to the universe.

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I, I'm across a lot of skeptics stuff and I'm actually in a Discord group

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with the UK Skeptics and so I get to hear a lot of the stuff firsthand by

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the time it gets onto Skeptics Guide.

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The same with Skeptics with a K, which is the Merseyside Skeptics group.

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They, they took a lot of science and critical thinking, but generally

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I've heard a lot of the information already in, in weekly discussions.

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And of course, my friend Cam Reilly with his various podcasts.

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Bullshit Factor and Bullshit Filter.

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Yeah, Bullshit Filter and the Cold War podcast.

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They're good as well.

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Like I mentioned those, otherwise Cam would never forgive me.

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Except he doesn't listen to this anyway, so he'd probably never know.

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All right, well that's enough rambling for this episode.

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Yeah, you've got the picture.

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We need to arm ourselves with information so that we can

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sort the wheat from the chaff.

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There's a lot of misinformation out there.

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There's a lot of things said and repeated.

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A lot of press releases from Scott Morrison that are just repeated

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verbatim, even on things like the ABC.

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And in order to get the context of why things are happening, we need to

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explore outside and create your own little custom made sources and A list of

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sources, and if you, if you can't find something independent, then grab a bit

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of left and a bit of right so that you can see what's happening on both sides.

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So, alright, we'll see you next week.

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Shay will be back as well, and we'll talk to you then.

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Bye for now.

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And it's a good night from him.

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The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
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