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Episode 315 - The Return of The Velvet Glove

Topics:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

01:40 The Submarine Fiasco: A Deep Dive

03:20 The Politics of Nuclear Submarines

03:42 Australia's Relationship with China

05:07 The South China Sea: A Strategic Perspective

06:24 The French Connection: A Failed Deal

08:24 The Future of Australia's Defense

11:13 The Impact of Trade Relations on National Security

14:42 The Role of Media in Shaping Public Opinion

19:11 The AUKUS Agreement: A New Era of Alliance

23:54 The Power of Imagery in Politics

46:40 Critique of Mr. Christensen's Climate Change Argument

47:13 Discussion on Huawei's Technological Achievements

47:58 The Controversy Surrounding Huawei's Involvement in Global Telecommunications

48:48 The Arrest and Detention of Huawei's CFO

49:48 The Alleged Fraud Involving Huawei and Skycam

50:43 The Impact of US Trade Embargo on Iran

51:10 China's Retaliatory Actions Against Canada

52:31 The Media's Portrayal of China's Actions

53:03 The Control of Media Engagement by Political Parties

53:38 The Importance of Open Debate in Politics

55:29 The Plight of the Biloela Family

58:57 The Controversy Surrounding Christian Porter's Blind Trust

01:02:21 The Impact of COVID-19 on Elections

01:03:24 The Consequences of Not Getting Vaccinated

01:04:53 The Political Implications of Vaccination Policies

01:15:02 The Treatment of Unvaccinated Workers in Germany

01:23:20 The Challenges Faced by Health Professionals During the Pandemic

01:26:47 Closing Remarks

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Transcript
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Pre recorded, completely unscripted and about as organised as the thought

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processes of some members of the Australian Senate, you're listening to

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news, views and opinions on events from here at home and around the globe on

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politics, business and society in general.

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This is the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

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Hello and welcome.

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This is the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast, coming to you from Australia.

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This is a podcast where we talk about news and politics and sex and religion.

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I, of course, am Trevor, aka the Iron Fist.

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With me, as always, is Joe the Tech Guy.

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Morning all.

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And returning like the prodigal son that he is, Scott the Velvet Glove.

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G'day Trevor, g'day Joe, g'day listeners.

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How are you all?

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It's been a while.

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So anyway, I'm coming in to you from Mackay, which is in North

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Queensland, and it's actually warmed up quite a lot, so I've turned on

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the air conditioner tonight, so yeah.

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Okay, it's warm enough up there for the air conditioner, and

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it's good to have you with us.

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Scott, we were talking about it earlier that we Pleased to be back.

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I played the sort of highlights of our submarine talks over the years, and

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it was good to hear your voice, and then, Uh, dear listener, Shea is away.

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She's in Perth at the moment, and despite being given strict

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instructions to take her microphone and stuff with her, she forgot.

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And so, so anyway, Shea won't be with us tonight or the next week, but

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whenever she gets back from Perth, she'll be back and Scott's filling in.

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So just a cameo role, Scott, and good to have you.

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And of course, very much, if you're in the chat room, say hello, and

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Dire Straits, John Semmon says hello.

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And so tonight, what are we going to talk about?

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Well, of course we're going to talk about submarines.

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With Scott here and with what's been going on, we have to talk about submarines and,

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oh, a bunch of other things, but you know what, who knows if we'll even get to them

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because submarines are going to take a bit of, a bit of effort to go through.

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So, so let's kick off with a submarine discussion.

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And, you know, where do you begin with this fiasco?

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And my main point is I'm just so disappointed in, in the regular press.

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Not only just the Murdoch press, where I have very low expectations, but even

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the other press, like the Guardian and places like that, just really poor

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coverage of the whole submarine fiasco.

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So, they really demonstrated, even the people, you know, the ABC, Laura

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Tingle, people like this who should know something about these issues,

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just clearly know nothing about them.

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And that's what sort of disappointed me the most.

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So, the ABC and other groups, you know.

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Basically allowed the government in the first few days to sort of spin a

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story which was, wow, we're getting nuclear, so it's okay to ditch France.

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And, and how wonderful it is that the USA thinks we're so special that we're

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getting these nuclear submarines.

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And the only two places that I saw any criticism of this in the early days

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was Crikey, where Bernard Kean says, strange, I could swear the government

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has utterly screwed up a hundred billion dollar submarine program.

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Well, all I'm reading about is how exciting it is that we're going nuclear.

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And of course, the John Menardieu blog was going crazy with submarine articles.

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So, Scott, your thoughts when you heard about the, the deal, the dumping

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of the French, the signing, well, the signing up to some vague deal

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with the Americans or the Brits, what were your initial thoughts?

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Okay, my initial thoughts were probably a little bit different to yours.

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I wasn't excited.

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But I also felt that we really had no choice, because I believe

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that China has treated Australia like shit for six to nine months.

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And if we had a government that had decent pay, they'd actually say to China,

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fine, you don't want to buy our barley or our wine, we're not going to sell

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you any of our fucking iron ore either.

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Pardon the language.

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But I do get rather angry and frustrated over this whole thing.

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Now, so hang on, so you're thinking because of our poor

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relationship with China.

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Yeah, it was a, it was a good, I a good idea to, I can go nuclear.

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Well, I can understand why the government decided to go nuclear now.

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I honestly believe that we went to nuclear because we were under pressure from the

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United States to get involved and do.

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Uh, freedom of navigation operations through the South China Sea.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. And with a nuclear powered submarine, you could get there without a problem.

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You could get there and back without a problem.

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Now I'm not sure whether the distance would be what we could get there

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without a problem and get back.

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Just being there would be a problem, wouldn't it?

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Okay.

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Yeah, we could get there and back without a problem.

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Okay.

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Assuming that China doesn't then depth charges and that sort of shit while

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we're there, then we've got problems.

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What, what do we wanna do while we are there?

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In the South China Sea with our nuclear submarine, what exactly

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do we want to do over there?

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I'm not, you didn't let me finish.

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I'm not convinced we should be over there.

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However, I can understand why the Yanks wanted to provide us with

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nuclear submarines so we could get over there without a problem.

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Yeah, from their point of view, I can fully understand it.

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Yeah, so can I.

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Because now they've fully armed their deputy sheriff in this neighbourhood.

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So they've fully armed the deputy sheriff in this neighbourhood.

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So, we could go over there, we could do Freedom of Navigation operations

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over there and move forward.

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Okay, let's, let's just put some structure to this, Scott.

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So first up, first up, the deal with the French had to end at some

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point because it was going to be impossible to build these submarines.

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It was going to be impossible to build these submarines because they were, they

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were trying to Reverse engineer something that was supposed to be a nuclear powered

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submarine, but they were going to reverse engineer it to put in a diesel electric.

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Yes.

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Which was never going to work.

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And basically, submarine experts said they couldn't imagine a more

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complicated or risky procedure to do.

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In terms of major technology with a large infrastructure piece like that.

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Yep.

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So we had to We should have just bought them off the

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shelf from Japan and moved on.

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Okay, well then why If that's the case, Scott, so we both

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agree the deal had to end.

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Everybody agrees on that because it was a stupid deal.

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If you're saying we should have I think the way it was ended, it was wrong.

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Yeah, okay.

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I think that we should have ended it a little nicer than the way we did.

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Okay, but you said we should have in the beginning, I've

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bought some cheap Japanese ones.

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So why shouldn't we have bought them now?

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Why not buy those cheap Japanese ones now?

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I don't know.

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That's the whole point.

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There's obviously been some sort of discussion between the United States

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and Australia about Australia's role in trying to keep China in check, you know,

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because that's, that's what it looks like.

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That's what it smells like to me is that there's been some sort of

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involvement to get us involved, have the ability to travel that far north

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to be a pain in the ass to the Chinese.

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Well, let's face it, a nuclear powered submarine is, is used for

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attacking other countries, right?

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That's why they call them attack class submarines.

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Yeah.

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And really, as Australians, shouldn't we just be worried about defending ourselves?

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One would have thought so.

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So.

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Which is why I think we would have been better off buying the cheaper,

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smaller Japanese submarines.

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They could have just patrolled in the water close to Australia.

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Had they have got, had anyone actually come in here, we could have sent them

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further north, torpedoed them on the way down here until they got into

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the range of our surface to surface ballistic missiles, which would

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then neutralize the invading fleet.

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Indeed.

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And by that stage the Yanks would have got involved in that sort of stuff, you know.

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That's probably why we, that's probably why we put Americans, um, that's

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probably why we put Marines up there in Darwin, because if history tells us

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anything you've got to kill Americans to get them involved in the war.

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So.

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Joe the tech guy, you got any thoughts on this submarine defensive,

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offensive choice of submarine at all?

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I know that the Navy are quite keen for a, an offensive role.

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Yes.

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Um, but the, the, the, Need for it.

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But yeah, it seems silly that nuclear submarines make sense in terms of a fuel.

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The one place you do want nuclear reactors are in long range naval vessels.

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Absolutely, and I agree wholeheartedly with you.

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So if we did have a real reason to be in the South China Sea, then I agree

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we should have a nuclear submarine.

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We don't have a good reason to be there.

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It was interesting reading the comments about, we think France as being

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Europe, but actually there's French Polynesia and there is New Caledonia,

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which are literally on our doorstep.

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And so France has a lot of territory just east of us.

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Which they're very keen on defending and that's why they

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wanted the bilateral relationship.

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Nasty.

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Go on, keep going, sorry.

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Well, any expansionist, including the Americans.

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Everyone knows that China's had its eye on Tahiti for a long time, you know.

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No, I don't think China is expansionist.

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I honestly don't believe China is expansionist.

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China just wants China just wants its own territory back.

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They want to reverse the hundred years of humiliation.

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That's why they've started suppressing everything in Hong Kong and Macau.

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China is not going to try and take back anything.

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It's not going to try and take anything new.

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They're only interested in conquering their old territory.

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They want Taiwan back.

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They want Hong Kong back.

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You know, I can understand that point of view, however, I honestly believe

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they've got to take a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror and

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say, Well, yeah, we might call it a renegade province, but it's been

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a renegade province ever since the end of the revolution, and I don't

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think we can ever have it back.

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You know, I think that they've got to negotiate.

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I think that what would be good is if China actually sat down with Taiwan

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and negotiated away the whole argument over the South China Sea and, you

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know, if Taiwan dropped their claim to the South China Sea, China would

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then drop their claim to Taiwan.

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You know, that is what I believe would be a reasonable position to get to, but

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I don't think you're going to get that.

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It's a bit like Mexico.

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They really have to give up their claim to Texas and California and Arizona.

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Just forget about it, really, and move on.

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Yeah, no, it's one of those things.

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Like, Mexico probably has a reasonable historical claim to those territories.

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However, they were, they were pinched by the Americans.

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They've got a better, you're right, they've got a better claim.

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Yeah, they were pinched by the Americans and, you know, they're just

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going to have to move on from it.

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Let's give a little bit of history here.

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So, the whole debacle had its genesis in liberal leadership tensions.

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So, Tony Abbott, had the correct idea to purchase the vessels off

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the shelf from overseas, probably Japan, at considerably lower cost.

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He actually had quite a good relationship with the Japanese Prime Minister of

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the day, but there was bad polling in South Australia and upcoming

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leadership battle with Malcolm Turnbull.

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So, because of political reasons, saw him change his mind and plumb

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for the building of these submarines locally in South Australia.

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in conjunction with the French, knowing that it would probably add

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about 30 to 40 percent to the price.

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So, really, the Japanese thought they had the deal.

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And I was very surprised when they lost it to the French and the French, one of

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the reasons they won was this promise about local sort of building that would

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happen in South Australia and the, the Japanese were a bit late in, in, in

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getting clued up to the need to say that.

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So.

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So that's how, and really at the time, they didn't even contemplate having

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the nuclear powered version from the French, as if it was just completely

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off the table, and, you know, there wasn't like there was a major discussion

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in Australia about it, they didn't, it just, it was never on the table

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to sort of think about the nuclear powered version from the French.

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I think because they were worried that they couldn't service them, because we

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don't have a nuclear powered version.

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We don't have a civilian nuclear industry here, which means you

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couldn't service the reactors here.

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So, surely we could train people to do it.

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I don't understand why we couldn't, uh, we've got smart

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people here, surely it can't be that hard if the French can do it.

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We've got one nuclear reactor in Australia and that's at Lucas Heights, which

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is in the western suburbs of Sydney.

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Now, I don't believe it's big enough to provide you with the fuel rods and

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everything else that you're going to need to power a nuclear powered submarine.

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Right.

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So what would you actually need to do is you would have to have a very

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long conversation with the public.

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You have to sell them on the whole idea of a civilian nuclear industry in Australia

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before you could then say to the French, yes, we'll buy your nuclear submarines,

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or they'd have to duck back over to France once or twice a year or something.

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I think the French version of the submarine lasts about, the fuel

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rods last about seven to 10 years.

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Whereas the American version lasts about 25 years or something like that.

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So, so really it would have just meant.

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You know, uh, shipping them over to France and replacing the rods

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and bringing them back again.

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I believe the Americans were concerned about French technicians

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being on American, seeing American secrets on board the ships.

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Correct.

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One of the problems was we were always going to put American weapons in them.

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And the Americans were worried that the French would learn too much

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about the American weapons and that they had breaches in their security

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and secrets would leak out through the French system in installing the

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American weapons in these submarines.

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So that's, that was part of their concern.

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So would they not have a problem with the Japanese finding out about

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American secrets aboard submarines that the Japanese had to service for us?

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I think they trusted the Japanese not to leak to the Russians.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Yes.

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Yeah, so, but here's one point.

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Yeah, one point about all this, and we'll get on to the French and

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how they've been treated, but in my view, the French should never have

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agreed to such a stupid contract.

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So Absolutely.

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They should have said, they should have said it's nuclear or nothing.

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Yes, indeed.

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So when you're a supplier of something, you sometimes don't

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sell something if you know it's not appropriate for your customer.

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So I'm in the selling game and, you know, we'll deal with art shops who might be

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looking at certain products and we'll look at their shop and their, their

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clientele and we'll say, look, I know you're really keen on this particular

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product, but from what I've seen of your business, this isn't going to suit you.

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It's not going to sell well and you're going to spend a lot of money

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and in six months time, the stock's still going to be here and you're

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not going to be happy with me.

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So, because I want a long term relationship with you, I really think

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you shouldn't buy this product and maybe buy this other thing or, or whatever.

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But, you know, at times we've said to people, we're not going to sell you this

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product even though you want it because we just don't think it's good for you.

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And the French should have done the same thing in this case.

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There's another example I can think of, friends of mine in the mining industry.

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Where they're selling technology to other mines and this particular technology,

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one customer wanted to use it with a mineral and it hadn't really been used

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with that mineral before and they sold them the technology and of course they're

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now having huge problems at this mine site because it's just not working with

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this particular mineral and, and that company is now going to badmouth this

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technology around the world and it's causing them enormous headaches and they

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really should not have sold the technology to them without You know, a lot of

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more testing and, and really sometimes you just have to say no when somebody

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wants to buy a stupid idea from you.

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So, while I've got some sympathy for the French, so there's that, there's

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also, it seemed that while the contract, the idea of the contract was that lots

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of work was supposed to be done in South Australia and the French were

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always sort of backing out of that, of trying to get as much work being

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done in France rather than Australia.

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So that was another thing that was going on.

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But we really, you know, according to reports, the day before the announcement,

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we had written to the French, saying we're happy with everything, it's

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all smooth sailing, literally.

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And then the next day, Morrison, after informing the Indians and the

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Japanese and the Americans that he was going to cancel the sub deal.

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And then inform the French by text message.

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Just, that's not it, Trevor.

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Very poor form.

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You know, it really was extraordinarily poor form on Morrison's behalf.

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You know, he's extraordinarily clumsy with his international standing with people.

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He just doesn't seem to get it, does he?

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He's just a bully, and a prick, and that's how he deals with people,

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whoever he comes across, so, yeah.

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At least he didn't throw in to show up front him.

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No, that's true.

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Maybe he did, we just don't know.

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So, yeah, so, So what else have I got here in my notes, so, So, Yeah, not a

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squeak from the media about how bad the initial deal was, just how wonderful,

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well first of all, how wonderfully quiet these nuclear subs are, and dear

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listener, the way it works is, well they're quieter than the diesel when

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they're operating, but a diesel you can actually shut off and convert to battery

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power, and that's, that is silent.

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Whereas the nuclear, um, power plant can never be shut down and

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the coolant is always running, so.

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A nuclear ship on idle is noisier than a diesel that's

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switched off and is on electric.

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So, if I was sitting in a sub in the north of Australia and I had

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been told by reconnaissance that the enemy ships are about a day

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away, heading directly towards me.

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I ideally would like to be in a nice small sub, diesel electric, that I

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would then be switching straight onto electric for a few days while I waited

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for them to come and pop them off.

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And I reckon that would be the safest option for me if I was a submariner

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looking to take on somebody.

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So, of course, if I wanted to go over to the South China Sea and start launching

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missiles, I'd rather be in a nuclear sub.

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That's, you know, what are we there for?

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What are we using it for?

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That's the important part.

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None of that's, um, being said.

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And that's the whole point.

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I don't know what it is being used for.

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It's clearly something that the Yanks have actually said to the Australians.

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We're going to give you the arms.

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We need you to take the fight up to the Chinese.

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So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if, if at some point a mistake

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happens and a torpedo is accidentally fired at something, you know, it's

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could get out of control very quickly.

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So let me see what else I've got here in my notes.

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It's just about cost effectiveness as well.

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Like you can get so much.

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You know, when you're talking about a small diesel electric

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sub, they are so much cheaper than these massive nuclear submarines.

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You can have so many more of them littered around the place, and the

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Collins class, so that's our current submarine, they're 3, 000 tonnes.

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The now abandoned French designed attack class, we're going to be 4, 500 tons.

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And the American and British that we're now looking at are more than 7, 000 tons.

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So it's two and a bit times the size of our current submarine.

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And that requires a lot of people to man these things.

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It's one of the hardest parts about operating a submarine fleet.

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It's finding people who want to work in one, and having these big monsters

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needing lots of people in them, it's going to be difficult to find the

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people to actually run these things.

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And if you think about it, in wartime, when you've got a massive investment

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in a sub, where you've spent, you know, 8 billion on one vessel,

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you'll, you get scared to use it.

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You are worried about the cost of having that thing bound and sunk.

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And if you actually have much, you know, eight billion dollar subs, if

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you like, you end up, you can take more aggressive and appropriate action.

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So, they've certainly found in wartime that with some of the large aircraft

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carriers and other large vessels, there's They've become a little bit ineffective

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because the fear of losing them.

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There's such, so much money is poured into these things.

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So, so anyway, what have we got?

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We, we haven't even signed up.

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We've got a dozen of them.

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Yeah.

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Well, the thing is we haven't even signed up to anything.

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All we've got is just a deal, which is we're going to have a study for 18 months.

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And we're going to talk to the Americans and the British about

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What we might like to have at the end of that 18 month period.

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Well, the deal is that they're willing to transfer the technology to us, I think.

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Right.

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But the actual cost and design and all the rest of it, we haven't struck any deal.

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And no, we haven't done that.

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And at this point, if you're the British or the Americans selling

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the subs, you know that, well, what's Australia going to do?

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They're not, they can't go To the French, who else is going to want to deal with us?

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It's not like there's a competitive process now.

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So, we're just going to have to accept the least worst option of

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whatever this study comes up with.

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Like, we've really, uh, screwed ourselves in terms of options of international

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players who could participate in this.

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I mean, don't the Russians have some spare nuclear submarines they can sell us?

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You know, the smart thing would have been to say to the French,

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hey guys, big mistake a few years made by these dunderheads.

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Obviously, this isn't working.

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We're going to have to go nuclear, if that's, you know, what we're going to say.

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Why don't you give us a tender price on making these nuclear?

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And then we're going to compare that to a tender price from the US and the UK.

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Something like, keep the French in, and say to them,

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that's, why didn't we do that?

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We'd had an agreement with them to build this other ship.

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The Americans were going to put weapons in there.

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It was all agreed to.

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It would have been so easy just to say to the French.

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Give us a quote on making it nuclear, and everyone would have been happy.

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Yeah, but you're dealing with a group of clowns that think they're business people,

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but they don't understand business.

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They don't.

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They don't understand.

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You know, because that, that is, that is honestly the first thing a business

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person would do is say to get two competitors, sit them down and say, Right.

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You give me a quote, you give me your best price, and then

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we'll make a decision after that.

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Hmm.

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I'm surprised they haven't opted for coal fired actually.

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Yes, that's right.

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Smart coal, clean coal.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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So, so okay.

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One of the things in this is, is just the acceptance in the media in these reports.

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That we need these subs because of the growing threat from China and even, you

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know, the Guardian will say something like US, UK and Australia, forge alliance

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to counter China and it's just accepted that there's this Chinese threat.

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Well, they released the virus on us.

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That's right.

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So they're done with us.

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Yeah.

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Honestly, it's just getting ridiculous.

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This, you know, what has China been doing that is so aggressive?

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Yeah.

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They're not buying our shit.

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What are we doing to France?

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We're not buying their shit.

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You know, this, this whole we're at war with China is, is 1984

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playing out in 2021 in Australia.

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We've always been at war with East Asia, I mean China.

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It was only in 2014 that we signed a free trade agreement with Xi Jinping.

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And he was in our federal parliament and being lauded, not only by Tony

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Abbott, but by the entire Murdoch press in what a great deal it was, the free

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trade agreement, how wonderful it was.

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That was all Labor's fault.

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How wonderful it was to bring our countries together.

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This was only in 2014.

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And what have the Chinese done since that time in terms of aggression

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beyond not buying your shit?

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And.

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Is that it?

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Is that it?

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Scott, you think there's massive No, I don't think there's massive provocation.

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I just honestly believe that China has behaved very abruptly, curtly, whatever

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you want to call it, to Australia.

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They have treated us very badly for a long time.

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But not by stuff.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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But not buying stuff.

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But also they've gone in there and they've said, they've made all sorts of comments

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about, you know, you wanna make sure if you're gonna travel to Australia, because

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we are hearing reports that Indians are having the little shit kicked out

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of them, that there's racism across in every street and all that sort of thing.

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There is that sort of stuff that the Chinese government has actually

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put out and have we done anything?

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Have we done anything that might have.

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Have we caused them to say that?

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Have we, have we accused them of human rights abuses that they might say?

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Oh yeah, but the Uyghurs, that is a human rights abuse, what they're doing there.

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They're locking them up.

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You know, that is, that is clear cut a human rights abuse.

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Now, have we actually said that publicly?

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Yes, we have.

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Now, you know, the most, Offensive thing I think Australia has done was

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when ScoMo said we've got to send in weapons, we've got to send in inspectors

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with weapons inspector like powers.

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Correct.

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That was wrong.

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It was clearly a wrong thing to do.

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And that is why.

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And that's what kicked off most of these.

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I'm, I agree wholeheartedly with you.

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That is most of what, most of what's kicked it off.

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Just, just to recap here.

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I mean, this really is 1984 with, you know, we're at one moment, we're

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all with East Asia, and then we were.

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Then we change and we're always at war with Eurasia or whatever, I mean.

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This is 2014.

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So, he, Tony Abbott boasted about his history making trade deal

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with China as one of his greatest achievements as Prime Minister.

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He's since said that it was wishful thinking and he had

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a very benign view of China.

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But similar Mia Culpers haven't been forthcoming from the coalitions.

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Stenographers and cheerleaders in the Murdoch press.

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So, Paul Kelly from The Australian has never admitted he was wrong

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in lauding the deal as, quote, a moment of transformation, of global

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significance, pointing the way to a glorious future in which an astute

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she would pull Australia Far closer into China's orbit in coming years.

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This is all from the Australian, so let me just see here.

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This is what they, this is what Kelly was saying at the time.

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The upshot is that China has gone beyond most Australian expectations

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in the free trade agreement.

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This is a strategic economic decision by Beijing that constitutes the

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platform for a wider partnership.

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It contradicts, again, so much of the misguided local commentary

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suggesting the Abbott government was risking relations with China.

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In his speech, an astute Xi bypassed any potential source of trouble.

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For Abbott, the speech was pure upside.

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China is playing a long and clever game with Australia.

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The message is writ large.

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Australia and China are going places together.

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This is from The Australian.

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Greg Sheridan lauded the deal and insisted that there is not the slightest

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evidence that any Australian tradie would be a loser under this agreement and he

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was scathing in his criticism of Dan Andrews because Dan Andrews questioned

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whether it was all upside in this thing.

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So, and he, he basically poo pooed Labor for questioning whether this

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free trade agreement was all as wonderful as being, was being painted.

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So now, seven years later, and really it's been happening.

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You could probably say a couple of years ago it started, probably five

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years later, and I think in 1984 it was every five years that the enemy changed.

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So now, News Corp and the government now insist exactly the opposite,

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that Labor is too soft on China, indeed has fallen into China's trap.

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In the words of an Australian editorial in December, Sheridan's reversal

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has been particularly risible.

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In 2015, he was criticising Daniel Andrews.

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Last year, he was complaining that Andrews has handed China a propaganda victory for

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signing up to a Belt and Road Agreement.

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So, editorial writers in the Australian have gone from declaring under the

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Free Trade Agreement, we welcome Chinese investment in Australia,

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to Cheering the government's blocking of Chinese investment.

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Like, you really have to understand how quickly this has just turned around.

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And they haven't fired a single Someone called you Darwin.

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Yes.

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Exactly.

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And what, has China fired a single missile at us?

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What have we done?

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It's plenty of provocation, where we said We made a very provocative statement when

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we said that we should send in inspectors with weapons inspector like powers.

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And that was wrong, it was very wrong, and it was completely

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clumsy of Morrison to say it.

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Yeah, and also, we're complaining that they're not buying our shit.

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Meanwhile, they wanted to bring Huawei in here and set up 5G.

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And they wanted to buy different infrastructure things, dairy farms and

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stuff, and we said no, you can't buy it.

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So, now I agree, we shouldn't allow China, Huawei, to set up 5G.

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There are some things you just can't allow, but, but people have

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to be able to view this from the other person's point of view.

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You have to be able to put yourself in the place of the Chinese who are a

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superpower and this pissy little nation down here is having a big whinge fest.

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Yeah, that's very true.

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Yes.

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So now, the other thing with all this, of course, is right at this moment, we're

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trying to get a trade deal with the EU.

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Yeah, we just pissed the French off.

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That's right.

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So, you know, he is, he was incredibly stupid of Morrison because, you know,

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he didn't understand that with Angela Merkel stepping down, the de facto

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presidency of Europe was slotting over to Micron, you know, to, what's his name?

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Macron.

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Macron.

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Yeah.

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He was, he was slotting over to Macron.

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And yet he just, Upset the French.

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Yep.

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You know, so our one ally in those whole EU trade negotiations is to turn

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around and tell them to get stuffed.

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Yep.

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And so the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said, One of

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our member states has been treated in a way that is not acceptable.

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So we want to know what has happened and why.

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Adding that the situation must be clarified, quote, Before you keep

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on going with business as usual.

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Quote, unquote.

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Meanwhile, our Trade Minister, Dan Tehan, if that's not depressing enough for

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you, Dan Tehan says, it's just very much business as usual when it comes to our

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negotiations on that free trade agreement.

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Jesus Christ.

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EU Commission saying, you need to explain yourselves here,

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it's not business as usual.

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Dan Tehan is saying, oh, I think it is.

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Meanwhile, at the very same time, in the last couple of weeks,

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Australia is opposing China's bid to join a trade pact until it halts

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its strikes against our exports.

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So, so China on Thursday formally applied to join the world's biggest

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trading agreement, the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans

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Pacific Partnership, but it will require the unanimous support of all

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the PAC's members to be admitted.

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It was signed by 11 countries including Australia, Canada, Chile,

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Japan and New Zealand in 2018.

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China wants to join.

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Australia's Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, and Trade Minister, Dan

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Tehan, who says parties to the agreement must have a track record of compliance

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with existing trade agreements and World Trade Organisation commitments.

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And Dan Tehan says Australia will oppose China's bid to join a key

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trade pact until it halts trade strikes against Australian exports.

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Does anybody just look at, the rest of the world must look at us

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and go, we are just a shitty mess.

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We are just shitty bunch the way we just beat our chests and treat people badly

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and then whinge when they treat us badly.

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I think most of the rest of the world, if they pay attention to

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Australia at all, it's just a laugh about the climate change.

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Yes, yes.

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Why are we saying behind the rest of the world when it comes to climate

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change would be the other thing.

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Yeah, because your average citizen of another country isn't going to be

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too concerned with Australian trade relations or submarines for that matter.

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You know, we just.

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Behave shittily towards other people, and then when we get a smack on the nose

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back, we then go, Oh, what do you mean?

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What?

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It's embarrassing.

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There was something very funny on Batuta Advocate the other day that

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said that I only had to laugh.

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He said that, oh god, I've lost it.

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Anyways, keep going, it'll come back to me.

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Yeah, no worries.

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So now we've got AUKUS.

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This, just a loose arrangement that in future will work more closely together

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between Australia, the UK and the US.

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And people think that is going to help our security in the region

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and do completely the opposite.

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How's that different to Five Eyes?

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So, uh, it doesn't, it just adds to the Chinese who are thinking, the Chinese will

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be thinking, who's going to attack us?

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America.

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And who might be helping them?

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Australia.

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Like it just puts us in the mix in terms of if there is a war

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between China and Australia.

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America, then we're just, once again, underlining how close we are to America,

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and that we're probably China's enemy.

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The UK has never done anything against China.

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No, no, and you know, I mean, they've got every reason to want to meddle in this

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part of the world as well, don't they?

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You know, it's so obviously a natural fit for them to be Swanning around

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here, throwing the waiter out.

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Oh, God's sake.

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Anyway, this is all a bit of a repeat of what happened back in, just prior

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to, just after the First World War.

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I've got a link to an article by Alan Patience from the John Menendew blog

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talking about, One of our worst Prime Ministers, who was Billy Hughes,

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and essentially at the Paris Priest Conference he did the dirty work in

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putting the Japanese offside and, and really That was really offensive.

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Yeah, and basically Billy Hughes unleashed a tirade against the

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Japanese for proposing an anti racism clause be inserted into the League of

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Nations Charter, and Japan was deeply offended by Hughes's interventions

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and on leaving the conference declined membership of the League of Nations.

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So, he goes on But the Japanese saw clearly what Hughes was way too stupid

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to realise that he was being cynically manipulated by the Gang of Four who were

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effectively running the show in Paris.

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So he did the dirty work to exclude the Japanese from the Gang of Four's

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White Man's International Politics Club, because the Japanese thought,

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we're a burgeoning power in the region We want to have some say in what goes

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on here and basically told to fuck off.

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The Japanese were actually on our side during the First World War.

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Indeed.

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You go to Albany in Western Australia, and you'll see how there's pictures of

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Japanese ships escorting Australian ships across the international To Turkey, yes.

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Indeed.

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So, according to this article from Alan Patience, the similarities

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between then and now are alarming.

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Hughes was happy to provoke the Japanese clumsily and insultingly

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because he believed the British and perhaps the Americans had his back.

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He also loved being in the company of the great leaders at the conference.

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He was sure he was one of them, crowing to his supporters back

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home about his achievements.

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He was the runt in a house of fighting cocks.

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And this guy says Morrison displays the very same faults.

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He is already crowing about his achievement in forging a so called

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new alliance with his forever friends.

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He is stupidly blind to the fact that for the past few years he, and therefore

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Australia, has been manipulated by the Americans and now the British into

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being their Billy Hughes front man in thumbing their collective noses at China.

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Orcus is simply the white man's burden writ large in the Asia Pacific and

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Australia is its city little cheerleader.

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So I like that article from Outland Patients.

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Scott, do you want to disagree with any of it or you think that's about right?

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No, I, I agree with it.

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You know, I honestly believe that we've been, we've been co opted into

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something the Americans want to do.

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pick on the Chinese for.

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And they sort of said, well, Australia's got problems with China

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right now, so let's, you know, bolster their ego and give them

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these nuclear powered submarines.

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You know.

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Yeah.

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So what does the average Aussie think of all this?

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Will it mean anything down the track?

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I've got an article here from The Shot and put up on the screen,

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uh, picture, that up there.

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And this, this.

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Article is saying, I'll read a bit of it here.

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If I were in a TED talk right now, this would be about the time I pointed loudly

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to an oversized photo behind me of a group of American soldiers about to raise

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the US flag on a pile of war rubble.

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You know the one, you've seen that image at least once in your lifetime.

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Four or five or maybe even six soldiers grasping an almighty flagpole

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as they hoist the stars and stripes skyward like a giant middle finger.

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The up yours of American supremacy.

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We all know the image, it's iconic.

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Now, riddle me this.

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Exactly how many people are in the photo?

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What date was it taken?

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What was the specific geographic location?

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Who took the photo?

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What were the soldiers names?

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Details, me tails.

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Nobody remembers them because nobody cares.

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It's the image that's important.

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The image is seared in people's minds purely because of its

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symbolism, its simplicity.

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That's how symbolic imagery works.

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When something is so large and powerful, so symbolic and simple, it infiltrates

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our subconscious like that photo of the six American marines in Iwo Jima.

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We may not be able to tell anyone about the details, but we can all recall the

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powerful imagery, what it represents, and more importantly, how it makes us feel.

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That's a grand narrative.

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That's the power of the grand narrative.

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It doesn't rely on detail.

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So, I'm going to put another picture up.

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Which is basically a picture of Scott Morrison with Joe Biden and

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Boris Johnson flanking him on the television screens as this sort of

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orcus announcement was being made.

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And so What the article is saying that this is what Scott Morrison's

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team play with, imagery, the grand narrative, the idea you don't focus

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on the details too much, you just remember how it makes you feel.

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What team Morrison want you to think over and above anything else,

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above the policy and the presses and the talk of oh my god nuclear

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submarines and the Twitter chatter.

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What they want you to think when you think of Scott Morrison, when you talk

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to your friends, when you swap the goss, when you go to vote, they want

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you to think that Scott Morrison is a strong leader, a hero of our times.

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They want you to feel it and know it deep in your bones.

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So, that's the way they keep that imagery afloat, is by pumping it full of air and

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reinforcing it all the time, constantly, every day of every week of every month.

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Scott is strong, Scott is our hero, Scott will lead us all to safety.

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So, I think there's something in that, that Morrison looks good

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in a suit, I'll give him that.

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And he stands there, and he's got the look.

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You know, like Corbin in the UK didn't look good in a

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suit . You know what I mean?

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No, he looked bloody awful.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And so I would've thought Biden would look the pick of the three of them in a suit.

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Yeah, he looks sharp enough.

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But it's just, people won't care about all the details that we've just spoken

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about, about what a shitty deal this is.

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All they'll go is, gee Morrison strong, leaner, you got us to deal

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with the Americans for nuclear subs.

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Must know his shit.

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Hooray.

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Like, that's what it's really gonna come down to.

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I don't think he does know his shit.

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I don't, but people won't get that.

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They'll just hear No, no, no, he doesn't know that he's shit.

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No, he doesn't know that either.

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Maybe deep down he does.

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Maybe deep down he knows he's a con.

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It'd be interesting.

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Who knows?

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But, you know, they'll just He just needs to put out the picture of

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himself flanked by Boris Johnson and Joe Biden and says, look, I'm a world

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leader and I got us some nuclear subs.

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And all that stuff that we've just talked about is all for nothing.

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Your average Joe will know nothing about it, couldn't care less.

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I find that quite depressing and I don't know if there's

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anything I can do about it.

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No, I agree with you, it is quite depressing when you realise that,

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you know, it's probably going to come down to that picture of those

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three men up there on the morning of the announcement of August.

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You know, no one actually will give a toss that there is no treaty or

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anything else that's being discussed.

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It's just an agreement that we're going to work together.

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But it doesn't even have that, whatever clause it is in the ANZUS treaty

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that says that, you know, that they will come to the aid in conjunction

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with their democratic processes.

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You know, that doesn't say the Marines are coming.

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That says that we're going to argue about it in Congress to decide

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whether or not to send the Marines.

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You know?

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In the chat room, Diastrates That's what, that's what, sorry?

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Sorry.

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In the chat room, Diastrates says About the Iwo Jima photo, he says

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the cameraman missed the raising, had to get them to do it again.

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So it was fake, staged, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker:

That photo.

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Yeah, I know.

Speaker:

Have you heard that?

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The point I was going to make, yeah, they did actually do

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that a couple of days later.

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Right.

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And of the six blokes that raised that flag, I think two of them were killed

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in action or something like that.

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So they had to grab two more just to help it out.

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Okay, right.

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Yeah.

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It was really quite a, it was very much a botched job.

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Right.

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So, it's really hard to get over that sort of imagery and there's just no capacity

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for an opposition leader to get the same image being flanked by world leaders.

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There's a huge advantage in incumbency.

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When you've got the murder press on your side, which the Liberals

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do, it's very hard for Labor to overcome that imagery, I think.

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So, what I've put up on the screen now, let me just see if I'm able

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to actually make that even bigger.

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Sorry.

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This is, uh, a central poll came out today, and it said which party would you

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trust most to handle the following issues?

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And, on the issue of maintaining international relations, 37 percent trust

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the Liberals, 32 percent trust Labor.

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After the week that we've, weeks that we've just had, people still think,

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overall, the Liberals are the best party for maintaining international relations.

Speaker:

Thank you.

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And also managing the economy, I mean.

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And that was the other one I was going to get to as well, is

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management of the economy, 41 percent say Liberals, 31 percent Labor.

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After the blowout in the budget that we've had, after the billions thrown

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at the Harvey Norms of the world and not clawed back, And then, National

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Security, Liberals 41%, Labor 28%.

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The Liberals have been in charge of this entire botched submarine project.

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And they're the reason why we're not going to have a submarine when the

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Collins class eventually rusts away and we don't yet have a new submarine.

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And they'll be responsible for it.

Speaker:

Like, there's just these ongoing, ongoing myths.

Speaker:

A quarter of Australians think that the Liberals are going

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to address climate change.

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Well, it says, which party would you trust most to handle

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the issue of climate change?

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I guess that means if you're a denier, you would perhaps trust Liberals.

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Maybe.

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Yeah, so, fair workplaces, fair wages and workplace conditions.

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There's also 28 percent would trust Liberals more than Labor over that, so.

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For God's sake.

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You know, I'm up here in Dawson and, you know, I've got George

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Christensen as my local member and he's actually, Fucking clown.

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He's a member.

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Sorry?

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He's a country member.

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Yeah, I know that, but he's a clown.

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He's absolutely ridiculous.

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Like, you know, I actually got to the point where I had to write to him when

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he made that dunder headed argument over climate change and all that sort of stuff.

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I wrote to him, I said, Mr.

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Christensen, Sometimes it's better to be keep your mouth shut and be thoughtful

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rather than open it and remove all, all, all pretenses of the otherwise.

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Yeah, all doubt.

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That's exactly what I said to him.

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You know, he's a clown.

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Anyway.

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Just quickly, um, I'll shut up.

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No, no, you interrupt whenever you, not interrupt, chip in

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Scott, whenever you feel like it.

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So I mentioned Huawei earlier on.

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So really Huawei is this sort of state owned and controlled

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technology company out of China, is.

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They've really achieved some quite good technology with 5G, Joe, like Huawei

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world leaders in some respects, or not?

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Yeah, they produce, uh, good quality, cheap phones, well, not even cheap,

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I'd say they're top of the middle tier, obviously Samsung and Apple are

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the two leaders, but Huawei produce very good phones for the money.

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Yep, and they know something about installing 5G networks and things around.

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You know, around the world, other countries.

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Yeah, yeah, I believe that they were, had they not been excluded

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on national security grounds.

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Most countries, as in the UK, were looking, I think they finally got

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pulled out, but the UK and Australia were looking very hard at Huawei.

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Yeah, and you know, it's obvious they are definitely state controlled and

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we can't have that operating telephone system in America, in Australia.

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Like, that's clearly one we just, we have to say to them.

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You have to say no to that.

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That's right.

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But that's where you sat really gently and you say, guys, it's just not a good look.

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Can't do it for political reasons.

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Really love your product.

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Wish you all the best, but just not for us.

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Rather than, no, no, no, no, no.

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We're not taking you.

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And by the way, we're going to tell the rest of the world that

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they probably shouldn't take you either because of the risk.

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And we're going to really thumb our noses at you, Mike,

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which is kind of what we did.

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So, but there was an incident where the daughter of the sort

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of Wang Zhu, Wang Zhao, the wealthy daughter of Huawei's boss.

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She was held in Canada on charges relating to America wanted

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her extradited out of Canada.

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So she had flown, I think, from China to Canada and was on her way to Mexico.

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So she was just transiting through Canada and American officials

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had a warrant for her arrest.

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Which, they got the Mounties in Canada to execute and put her under arrest.

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She ended up in home detention in a luxury villa.

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Yeah, house arrest, yeah.

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But, you know, she was transiting through Canada and she was

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hauled out of transport.

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She was in the shadows of Virginia.

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Exactly.

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And the reason was because there was another company Which was

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alleged to have sold Hewlett Packard computers to Iran to help them

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with their mobile phone operations.

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And America had an embargo or a ban on people selling stuff to Iran and

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evidence came out that there was a close association between Huawei and this

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other Hong Kong based company Skycam.

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So they basically said that she was guilty of a fraud because she'd

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used some of the money from Skycam, shuffled it across to Huawei.

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That money was from selling Hewlett Packard computers in Iran.

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And America had decided that it didn't want people selling stuff

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to Iran, because heaven forbid that Iran should have a half decent

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telephone, sort of, system in place.

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I think that in violation of their trade embargo in Iran, wasn't it?

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Yeah, in violation of the US trade embargo.

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Yeah, I know, the trade embargo in Iran and that sort of stuff, which

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Yeah, which I could understand, but they were the only country that was

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actually out there enforcing the law, enforcing the embargo against Iran

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You know, it was their own embargo.

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I know, it was their own embargo, wasn't it?

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Wasn't a United Nations embargo.

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No, I agree wholeheartedly, it was a US embargo.

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Yeah, yeah, so so anyway the so What the Chinese did, was they

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just started arresting Canadians.

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Yeah, I know.

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And locking them up and that sort of stuff, yeah.

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And even ones that had been tried, they tried them again and said, oh,

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we'll give you the death sentence this time on those drug charges.

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So they basically did, uh, just did the Took hostages.

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Played hardball with Yes.

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Took hostages, played hardball, and, and America has had to blink and said,

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well, we're just going to drop it now.

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And she got released and got returned to China.

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And she said she arrived triumphantly at the tarmac and told Chinese state media,

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if it wasn't for a strong motherland, I wouldn't have my freedom today.

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Pity Julian Assange can't say the same thing.

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We're going to be taken prisoners.

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So.

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You know.

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That was interesting, that the Chinese just played a hard ball and said,

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stuff you, we'll start arresting people, throw them in jail, uh, death

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sentences, and leave our citizens alone.

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Anyway, you know, what you get It was very brutal what the Chinese did.

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You know, they did actually just arrest people that were

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Canadians and lock them up.

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It was terribly cruel what they did.

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It was quite effective.

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But it was terribly cruel what they did.

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Yes, but all you get from the headlines, even the ABC says China played

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dirty to get Huawei Princess back.

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Too dirty even to tell its own people, because they're sort of saying that

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the Chinese media wasn't explaining to its people the sort of prisoner

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swap that they'd had to go into.

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So, but you know, The ABC's guilty as well, they didn't tell our citizens about

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the dirty backstory of the Iranian embargo that got her arrested in the first place.

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You know, just because America wanted to be pricks to Iran.

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So, yeah, so that was that.

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Scott, the Prime Minister's office issued an edict this week that

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all Liberal backbenchers must get approval before speaking to the media.

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And at the same time Anthony Albanese's foot soldiers are already forced to send

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final drafts of opinion pieces to their leader for approval or forced change

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before it's being submitted to newspapers.

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Is that going to happen with Craig Kelly?

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He's no longer part of the party, is he?

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No, no, no, but I mean, is he going to have to submit it to Clive?

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Up to Clive, probably.

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One would have thought so.

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I think it's really over the top.

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It's, you know, these, the politicians have never actually

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accepted that you can have a You can have a difference of opinion

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between the front and the back bench.

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And I honestly believe that Parliament is a lot poorer for that.

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Like, back in the day, you know, I'm going to show my age here by

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remembering Hawke and Keating.

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You know, they did have differences of opinion between the front and back bench.

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And they did actually argue stuff out in public.

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Most of the real hell ding dong fights took place behind closed doors.

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But they didn't actually try and suppress debate, they encouraged

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debate, and they came up with a good set of policies out of that.

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So I honestly believe our parliament is poorer for it.

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Very controlled of the politicians.

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Oh God, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so I remember when Shea was looking at pre selection, looking at contesting,

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and they said, Well, that podcast you've been on, we have to get rid of that.

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Tell them to take the episodes down.

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And now they're saying to elected politicians, well, you can't write

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any piece for a newspaper without running it past us, first of all.

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It's just embarrassing that they,

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they'd want to be a backbencher.

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If you can't speak your mind over these things.

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You know, I honestly believe they ought to have a, they ought to be able to be strong

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enough to stand up to their own backbench.

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And actually, they should actually be prepared to argue their point

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with the backbench and convince the backbench to go along with it.

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And then, you know, the backbencher could say, look, I

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didn't agree with it at first.

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However, after some back and forth, I've come round to, I've come round

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to understanding what they're saying.

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So, you know, that's, that's why I think that you'd be better off moving on.

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Now, uh, change of tack here.

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One of the earlier comments was from Jill, who said, let's lecture everybody

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about human rights and stop the Biloela family from being returned.

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Arrogant pricks and possibly low hanging fruit.

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They would win the election if they just sent them So, So, Jill, the

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situation's so bad with the Billa Wheeler family that even the Courier

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Mail is backing that family now.

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Like, that's, that's how things have gone.

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So, the Courier Mail editorial said, Yep, the world's gone mad.

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As if we needed further evidence that the world has indeed gone mad.

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Late Thursday we learnt, Federal Immigration Minister, Alex Hawke, granted

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12 month bridging visas to all members of an asylum seeker family from Biloela.

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Scott, except the youngest girl, she didn't get the 12 month bridging visa.

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And she's actually been born in Queensland.

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The effect of the decision is the entire family now needs to stay

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in community detention in Perth.

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It's not only bizarre, but it's sneaky and heartless.

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Hawke, this is Immigration Minister Alex Hawke, did not even have the courage to

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explain why the family's youngest girl had been denied the same visa as her family.

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Who'd even explain it?

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It's because she's a terrorist, obviously.

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No, she's not a terrorist, Joe.

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I mean, this is the whole point.

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Both those children were born here in Australia.

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Both of them were born here in Australia.

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Yes.

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Their parents arrived here.

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On separate boats, they met each other after they'd served their first initial

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term in detention and they got married.

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And they procreated, they had two children born in Australia.

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So, I don't understand why the hell the two of them aren't

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just treated as citizens.

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And then, you know, why the government is so determined to make such a song

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and dance over this whole thing.

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It's four people.

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Two of them were born here in Australia.

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The other two met and fell in love in Australia.

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These guys are complete pricks.

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Absolutely, they are absolute bastards.

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You know, had they just handed it very quietly before you'd even heard the term

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Billa Wheeler, then they could have just given them bridging visas and all that

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sort of stuff, say, and actually said to them, now don't you talk to the media.

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And the four of them would have kept their mouths shut, I

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can guarantee that, you know.

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But no, it's absolutely ridiculous.

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You've got a community that actually wants them there.

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You've got, you know, he worked in an abattoir, she worked as a

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volunteer and all that sort of shit.

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And you've, you've shown that they are integral, they have integrated

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into the community, and the community loves and wants them, and the

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federal government's saying no.

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And you've got a So, you know, you've got a procedure that allows a minister

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just to exercise a discretion.

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I know.

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Say, okay, I'm not setting any precedence here, but I'll just let

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you in anyway through my discretion.

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Yeah.

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Had they have done that before they arrested them in the middle of the

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night, you know, cause that's when it really blew up was after that.

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Had they have actually, had Alex Hawke or whatever the name, whatever the name

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of the immigration minister was at the time, how do you have actually said to

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them, Very quietly, you can stay, but don't you dare talk to the media about

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this, then that would have been fine.

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No one would have ever heard of the town of Biloela.

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Look, further evidence for being governed by a bunch of pricks here, Scott, is

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this blind trust and, um, Oh yeah, that was fucking disgusting, wasn't it?

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You know, Christian Porter is an absolute prick.

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You know, now that's just completely indefensible what he did.

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He took that money from a blind trust and he said, well, I

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don't know who it came from.

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You know, now Malcolm Turnbull was dead right where he said, you know, it's

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akin to a bloke arriving at your office with a, with a balaclava over his head

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and you're handing over a bag of cash.

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You know, it's exactly right.

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It's.

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It really makes you long for the warm, loving care of Malcolm Turnbull.

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Malcolm also said a blind trust is blind in that you don't know how it's investing.

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rather than you don't know where the money is coming from.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So you're normally a blind trust is for, you know, say you become, uh, the

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president of the United States, your assets should go into a blind trust so

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that if you make decisions that benefit certain sectors of the economy, you're

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not influenced by your own money.

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You don't know whether your money is in, is in petroleum or

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whether it's in other things.

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So you're not influenced in making a decision that.

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benefit your own portfolio, because you don't know what your portfolio is.

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You essentially Put somebody else in charge of your portfolio.

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You don't know what shares they've bought.

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Yeah, it wasn't a blind trust.

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It was a, it was a bloody disgraceful thing that this bastard did.

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And you know, I was very pleased when he actually stepped

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down from the front bench.

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You know, I got a text message from Landon Hardbottom saying

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that, Oh, Christian Porter's gone.

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And I said to him, I said to him, Oh, Porter's gone.

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That's good.

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But I thought he'd actually quit parliament, but no, he hadn't.

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No, so this is the thing.

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He's still a member of parliament.

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Like, it's as if this.

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This isn't a rule that's only applicable to ministers of parliament, it should be

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applicable to any member of parliament.

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I agree wholeheartedly.

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You just can't take a bribe.

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Yeah, exactly, and that's exactly what it was, it was a bribe.

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Well, well, you may not know who the person is, but They'll let you know when

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it's time for the favour to be repaid.

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Yeah, like the whole risk of all this is that in six months time, you get

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a knock on your door and it's, oh, by the way, I'm Joe Bloggs and I gave you

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that money and now I want a favour.

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That's the whole problem with this.

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So, and the fact that these guys can't see this, they are just, it's,

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it's, there's just no accountability.

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No, none whatsoever.

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It's mind, it's mind boggling and somebody like Josh Frydenberg.

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defended Porter's actions, saying he had disclosed the donation in

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line with rules and blamed the opposition for the criticism, which he

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labelled as vicious personal smears.

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And he said the point about Christian Porter's legal defence

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is he did not use taxpayers money.

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And that is very important, Frydenberg said.

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Labor will continue with their vicious personal smears and campaigns.

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I don't think Australians have got time for it.

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That's the, that's the, that's the state of democracy we've reached.

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That a, a minister says, I don't think I should have to tell.

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If I don't know where it came from, it doesn't matter.

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And now, a member of parliament.

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Which he is now still, saying, I don't think it's important

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to know where it came from.

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It's no wonder they are dragging their heels on the Federal ICAC.

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Yes, that's what the word I was groping for.

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Thank you very much, Joe.

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You know, that is, it's absolutely no wonder they're dragging their heels on it.

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Because these bastards know that that's exactly what the Federal ICAC, with

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some teeth, would actually investigate.

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Well, weren't you going to bring it in this term?

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Wasn't that an election promise?

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I don't know if it was a promise, it was something that was said in the election

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that I think, well, it probably did sound like a promise, but then actually no,

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Morrison said that he was more concerned with COVID than he was with ICAC.

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You know, so apparently you can't walk and chew gum at the same time

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if you're a federal parliamentarian.

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But just freedom and ICAC, and COVID, you can do at the same time.

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I agree, and that's wrong, you know.

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In the chat room, Dyer straight says Porter will be back,

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sadly, and I think he's right.

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I reckon middle of next, if the coalition wins.

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If the Tories win again, he could well be back.

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Middle of next term.

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He could well come back.

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Yeah.

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But I don't think that he's got much of a chance in Pearce.

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Pearce is a 5 percent margin that he's on currently.

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If the, if the rule, if the.

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If, uh, Western Australia votes the way they have in their state elections, then

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he's not going to be able, he's going to have a hell of a time holding his seat.

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So that would be good if he did actually lose his seat.

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I don't think it's going to happen, but it's always a possibility.

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Um, what's his opinion on climate change?

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Because what we've seen is former Liberals standing as

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independents on a climate change.

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So, so Liberal plus climate change seed.

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You mean If his electorate is one who are full of climate

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deniers, then he would deny it.

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No, no, no, that most inner cities are, wasn't that why,

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what's his name, lost his seat?

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Tony Abbott?

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Abbott, Abbott lost his seat to Zali Steggall because she was running on a, on

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a platform of action on climate change.

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So, you know, there's no doubt there that you do have a, and that

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was also Malcolm Turnbull's seat, which was lost to Donald Trump.

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What was her name?

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The former AMA president.

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Yeah.

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I can't remember.

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Yeah.

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She, you know, she won that basically.

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She was arguing the whole thing about climate change.

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So I do think there is a groundswell of support out there to people in

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inner cities that are prepared to vote against the coalition, but they're

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not prepared to vote for Labor.

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If you've actually got someone that's actually probably a, an economic

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conservative, but also saying that you've got to do something about climate change.

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So you could actually see an enlarged, an enlarged crossbench

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after the next election.

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So you could end up with Albanese in minority government.

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Shay in the chat room says West Australians are particularly

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pissed with the Feds.

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That would make sense.

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Absolutely they are.

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So it's going to be hard, yeah, even the best of candidates will

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have a backlash against them.

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Well, and that's exactly right.

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So honestly, that's uh, Shay, isn't it?

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That's your normal Yeah, that's right.

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G'day Shea, how are you?

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I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by being on here tonight.

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It's one of those things, I honestly believe that Porter would have a

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hell of a time winning that seat again if he did actually go again.

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Now he said he's going to run, well he could well run, but

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he's probably going to lose.

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Because there is a, there is a, there is a, there is a hell of a stink

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against him right now because of what he's done with his blind trust.

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You know, there's a hell of a lot of stink around that and it's just one

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of those things that is Really quite appalling that he's actually tried to

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get away with it Jill in the chat room says I'll be so disappointed if the

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women of Pierce vote for him Presumably they are more than half his electorate.

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Yeah.

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Well, well there were plenty of American women who voted for Trump.

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Yeah, exactly Yeah, so yeah, Scott.

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Yes Thoughts on COVID?

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You're fully vaccinated?

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I am fully vaccinated, yes.

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Although I'm getting the concern that I had my vaccination, the second

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shot was on the 22nd of June or 28th of June or something like that.

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And they're saying that the immunisation starts to wane after six months.

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So that would mean that in six months time, which is sort of the 28th of

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December, which is when me and the better half are looking at going

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to Singapore, I could be actually losing my vaccination by then.

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So I hope that they're going to start rolling out the vaccine.

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Booster shots before I actually do want to go overseas, so anyway.

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What date, when are you thinking of going to Singapore?

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28th of December.

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Alright, very optimistic of you, Scott.

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Well, you know, it's one of those things, you can, well, Dan T.

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had said that the international borders will be open by Christmas, so.

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Yep, yep.

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Okay, um, just looking at, Central Report came out with,

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sort of, about vaccinations.

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And the one that interests me with this is always the one where I'll

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never get vaccinated and that's sitting steady at six percent.

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So that's a nice low ish figure, I think.

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You know, we hear a lot about anti vaxxers that have been in the news,

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you know, a lot, but six percent is a pretty low figure of the population

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that's saying I'll never get vaccinated.

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So that's heartening.

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I would've thought so.

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It is, you know, that would mean that you could potentially get as high

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as 94% of the country vaccinated.

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94% of adults.

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Yeah.

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But your kids, you, your kids will get vaccinated because if their parents don't

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care and the kids won't care either.

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So probably the kids will match the parents.

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Yeah.

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But the, at the moment it's, uh, down to 16.

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No, it's 12.

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It's, if you can get them, you can get them vaccinated as young as 12.

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Even over here?

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Yeah, my brother, my brother's had both his sons vaccinated.

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Uh, one's 13, one's 12.

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And the only reason they didn't get their daughter vaccinated

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is because she's not old enough.

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But as soon as she hits 12 years old, she's going to go in for her first shot.

Speaker:

Because we actually trust science in our family.

Speaker:

So there's an article from The Economist, which was looking at excess deaths,

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because it's very difficult to work out how many people have died from COVID.

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And, um, in this article from The Economist, it says The standard

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method of tracking changes in total mortality is excess deaths.

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This number is the gap between how many people died in a given region during

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a given time, regardless of the cause, and how many deaths would have been

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expected if a particular circumstance, such as a natural disaster or a

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disease outbreak, had not occurred.

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So, although the official number of deaths caused by COVID is now 4%.

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Uh, according to The Economist, our single best estimate is

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that the actual total is 15.

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4 million people, and they find that there's a 95 percent chance

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that the true value lies between 9.

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6 and 18 million, as opposed to 4.

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7.

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So the problem with excess is, we went into a lockdown for a long period, which

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meant the usual road deaths, the usual work deaths, all of those didn't happen.

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But on the flip side, people were avoiding going to a hospital for medical treatment,

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and so you heard of cardiologists who were saying that by the time people came in,

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it was too late to save them from a heart attack if they'd come in 24 hours earlier

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when they were having their first twinges.

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They'd have been able to save them.

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So, you But is that last one, is that last example, really

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an example of a COVID death?

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Because it's kind of related to a COVID death, isn't it?

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I don't think it's actually a COVID death.

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Is it caused by the pandemic though?

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It's sort of a pandemic, or is it caused by the lockdown, which is

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the reaction to the, the pandemic?

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Yes.

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But the point, the point is, it's not a simple, take what your usual

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number of deaths are, and look at the total number of deaths that we've had.

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That excess death is, is, is a complicated number.

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Yes.

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Yes, that's true.

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It is a complicated number, and it's not inclusive by any means.

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But anyway, that's a big difference.

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Current level, 4.

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7 million.

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But really, arguably, based on excess deaths, 15.

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5.

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It's interesting anyway.

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So that was from The Economist.

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Okay, they actually stopped counting COVID deaths if they died outside

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of a hospital or a nursing home.

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You know, so there were all these people that were dying at home from

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COVID, but they weren't actually saying that they were dead from COVID.

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Yeah, there's actually a good talk by Professor David Spiegelhalter, who is a

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professor of statistics, talking about the statistics during the pandemic,

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and actually looking at those numbers.

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He's also on the board of the Office of National Statistics.

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And he's done a number, he's regularly interviewed on one of his videos.

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Notes Things in his presentation was how much he gets taken out of context.

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But if you actually listen to him, it was very, very interesting talking

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about the deaths in nursing homes, or sorry, the deaths in private homes

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compared to nursing homes and hospital.

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Yep, yep.

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So, got another interesting one to put up on the screen, and

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this one is about California.

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So California recently had An attempt to recall the Governor.

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They've got a strange system there where, kind of like your State Premier, you can

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have a re vote on them if 15 percent or quite a small number of people ask for it.

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So anyway, they had a recent election in California and I'm showing on the

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screen two maps of California and the The green is the people who voted for

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a recall, which means they wanted to get rid of the Democratic Governor.

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And And The map on the right shows the hotspots for COVID cases.

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And there's a really strange correlation between wanting to vote the Governor

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out, because presumably you're a Republican, and being a hotspot for

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COVID cases because of whatever reason.

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So, you're either not taking precautions, you're not wearing

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your mask, you're not vaccinated.

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Um, it's just interesting that something like vaccinations, mask wearing, et

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cetera, is becoming a political issue, aligning up with your political belief.

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Yeah, I know.

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It's absolutely crazy.

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I was listening to Cognitive Dissonance this morning and there

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were a couple of guys that um, probably spoken about before, but

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they were saying that Biden was right.

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This is a, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated now.

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And he said, you know, in America where we're swimming in vaccines.

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You know, there should be no excuse whatsoever, just go out

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and get the fucking shot whether those are exact words, you know?

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Right.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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There's um, a podcast called You Are Not So Smart that talks

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about Yeah, that's very good.

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I've listened to it.

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Logical biases.

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Um, I was talking about masks and how masks have become political and

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there was, there was a three hour long episode which was all about, Talking to

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the anti vaxxers in your life, or not necessarily anti vaxxers, the people

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who aren't considering getting the COVID vaccine and saying that actually a large

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number of people who are anti mask and Republican are sneaking in the back door

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of pharmacies to get the COVID shot.

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Because whilst you can have a vaccine and still pretend that you

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haven't, it's very difficult to wear a mask and pretend that you're not.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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That's interesting, isn't it?

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There we go.

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Hey, Andrew in the chat room said you're not seeing a map,

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but you should be able to see it.

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Surely that's working.

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Yeah.

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I must be able to see that.

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On and then off again.

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It's one of those things that I find absolutely ridiculous that they don't,

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that it's become a political issue about whether or not you get a vaccination.

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You know, and there was another thing that was also uncognitive since this

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morning was a guy that was saying that he was saying that there was a, he was,

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he'd written in, he'd written an article and he said, you know, the reason why

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that the Democrats were all laughing at these Trump Republicans that are

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dying is because they want us all dead.

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Go out and get the shot to make sure that you don't die.

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You know, it's one of those things that is absolutely ridiculous that it sounded

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like it was an article from the Onion or something like that, but it wasn't.

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They actually looked into it.

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It was a genuine article from a bloke that claimed that, you know,

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the Democrats want us all to die.

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I found the article actually.

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Yeah.

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He was the.

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editor of a right wing newspaper, and it was Howard Stern, the shock jock, who was

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laughing about Republicans dying of COVID.

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Basically, he was, he was laughing at people who had been vehemently

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anti vax, dying of COVID.

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And, and saying, yes, this was a grand conspiracy to persuade Trump

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voters not to get the shot so that they'd die off because the margins

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are so narrow that then in the next election, the Republicans would lose.

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One of the things that I honestly believe could actually happen if you

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have enough of these right wing Christian nutters that are actually saying, you

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know, Jesus is the only vaccine I need, then they're going to end up dying.

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So you could end up killing off a hell of a lot of the problems for the Democrats.

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Something's really weird happening, Joe, where people couldn't see the map.

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Yeah, I'm looking for that.

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I don't know why they wouldn't be able to see that.

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It's sort of showing up on ours, isn't it?

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I would say.

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I just wonder if I try.

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If somebody, if the map eventually shows up, could you just let us know in the chat

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room, because what we're looking at, it seems like it's there, and it just doesn't

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make sense that you can't see that, so, don't know what's going on there, so,

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just keep us informed, or, I'm going to have to move on anyway from that map, but,

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but also, I've seen the map on Facebook.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Maybe because I changed the screen to that one, Joe.

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I don't know what happened there, but okay, I've got the

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map anyway, by the looks of it.

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So let me just put that on to make it a bit bigger.

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A bit of luck.

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Okay.

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Just briefly, I think you sent this one, Joe, because in America, what

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they're finding is that it's the Republicans who are dying from COVID.

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And they're starting to worry.

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About the next election in that just the number of Republican

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voters are disappearing.

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It's just going to give an advantage to the Democrats.

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So, from Breitbart I honestly hope it does.

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Right, so Breitbart, there was an article where they are basically accusing the

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Democrats of kind of a reverse psychology.

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So, Here's the article from Breitbart, which is a very

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right wing online magazine.

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Do you want to know why I think Howard Stern is going full monster with

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his mockery of three fellow human beings who died of the coronavirus?

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Because leftists like Stern and CNN and Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi

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and Anthony Fauci are deliberately looking to manipulate Trump supporters

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into not getting vaccinated.

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Nothing else makes sense to me.

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So, in a country where our elections are decided on razor thin margins,

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it does not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead.

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That does not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead.

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If I wanted to use reverse psychology to convince people not to get a life

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saving vaccination, I would do exactly what Stern and the left are doing.

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I would bully and taunt and mock and ridicule you for not getting vaccinated,

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knowing the human response would be, hey, fuck you, I'm never getting vaccinated.

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So when you look at the numbers, they're all wrong.

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The only numbers that matter, which is who's dying, it's overwhelmingly

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the unvaccinated who are dying, and they're just, and they have just

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manipulated millions of their political enemies into the unvaccinated camp,

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so their right wing thinks it's a reverse psychology conspiracy, so

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that's what's going on in Breitbart.

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Scott, Queensland Police Commissioner, Tarina Carroll, has told officers

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they will be suspended without pay if they haven't had their

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first COVID jab by October 5th.

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I don't have a problem with that at all.

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It's an absolutely sensible idea.

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You know, I wish you could make it mandatory.

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You can't make it mandatory.

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So, you know, you've got to be able to make it mandatory in the places you can.

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They can do it there, so I honestly believe they should do it.

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So, there was a case heard recently.

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It was a case of a health worker, and there was a, there's a New

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South Wales mandatory vaccination order on health workers.

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And so I A health facility was able to say to people, you're sacked if you're

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not vaccinated, because our health order requires us to have you vaccinated.

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So that was in New South Wales recently.

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So with this Queensland one, there are exemptions, Scott, for police officers.

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Some religious exemptions.

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Yes, for medical, religious or exceptional circumstances.

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Have you seen the Flying Spaghetti Monster letter about vaccines?

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Yeah, that was really very interesting, wasn't it?

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I heard about that on a podcast, actually.

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They said that they're going to issue an exemption to everyone that says

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that it's our religious belief that you can't force our people to work

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alongside someone who's unvaccinated.

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Yes.

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So they're saying that, you know, you've got to actually, you've got to actually,

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you've got to actually get everyone vaccinated to fit in with the tenets

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of the Five Spaghetti Monster religion.

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Right.

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They, they had us in the first half.

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It was written that we're against harmful substances being, entering

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into our bodies and therefore we, it's unvaccinated people.

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Yeah.

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See, someone like the Satanic Temple in America will have a bit of a

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problem here, because in fighting the abortion laws, they say that

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everybody's body is inviolate and they have the right to make their own

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personal decisions about their body.

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So, that would indicate a pro anti vax stance on religious grounds.

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But also, but the freedom to not work alongside somebody who is unvaccinated

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and therefore enforcing segregation.

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It's one of those things, I don't think the Temple of Satan in the US would be

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actually arguing against vaccination.

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No, I don't think they would either, but if you take that basic tenet

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and apply it to this particular circumstance, there's a problem with it.

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Well, there's a problem with it.

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You could actually say that you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be

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supporting compulsory vaccination, which you can't get away with in the US.

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I mean, Biden's trying in the federal government over there and he's having

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a hell of a time getting it through.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, it's absolutely ridiculous.

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The United States was the second country in the world to

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come up with a COVID vaccine.

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You know?

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Mm-Hmm.

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. The first was Russia, the second was the United States.

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They're absolutely swimming in this stuff over there, but they

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can't get their people to take it.

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Germany will stop paying compensation to unvaccinated workers who are forced

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into quarantine by coronavirus measures.

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Absolutely.

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I agree wholeheartedly with that.

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Yeah.

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So it will affect people who test positive for the virus.

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If they haven't been vaccinated before, so that's a bit like what I was suggesting

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where maybe sick leave shouldn't be available for a COVID sickness if you

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are unvaccinated, because you've had the chance to reduce the severity of it.

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Yeah, so there's also, I did see an article by a healthcare worker.

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saying a lot of healthcare workers feel that they've put their lives

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on the line to look after people in a very virulent and deadly disease.

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And the health workers have, you know, despite being young and zero

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comorbidities, have still ended up dying because of the high viral loads

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that they were exposed to initially.

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And they are sick of it.

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And they're saying that, realistically, they want the ability to treat.

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or to triage unvaccinated patients at the bottom of the list.

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And saying that this goes against their training to treat everybody equally, but

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conversely, they've put their lives on the line, they've sacrificed a lot for

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this, and they're sick of people who refuse to believe the science until it's

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in their interest, until they're sick enough that they want to come to hospital.

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Yeah, well, I think when resources get scarce, and there's not a lot of fat

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in the system when it comes to ICU beds and ventilators, so if it comes down

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to choices of doctors will look at it and go, who's most likely to survive?

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Who can we help?

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Who is, if you're unvaccinated, you are putting yourself in the camp

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of perhaps not getting access to the limited number of ventilators.

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If there's a choice between you and a vaccinated person, that choice

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will mean that you're unvaccinated.

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the vaccinated person more likely to get the ventilator because

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they're more likely to survive it.

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So, hmm.

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Exactly.

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That could all pan out.

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Terrible for the health professionals to have to do that.

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So, all right.

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Well, it is terrible, but it's one of those things.

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Scott, we're about to finish up here.

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We've made it to the hour and a half mark, even though Shea's not here.

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We have to get there just to keep her out of the shark tank that

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Landon Hardbottom threatens her with.

Speaker:

Every week.

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So, any issues that you've heard over the past, uh, two years,

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Scott, that you, uh, wanted to, uh, chip in on or doubt that, uh, you

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wanted to disagree with or anything?

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Or you just wanted to agree with me on everything?

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No, I don't want to disagree with you on everything.

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It's one of those things that, it's one of those things I, thank you

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very much for having me on tonight.

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I really enjoyed it.

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And the essential Lord, Don, thank you very much for welcoming me back.

Speaker:

I thoroughly enjoyed myself tonight.

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It was, it was really good.

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It was, uh, like being, uh.

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Back on the horse again.

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It was really good.

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So thank you very much.

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All right.

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Well, you're looking good, Scott.

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Thank you.

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All right.

Speaker:

Well, we're going to sign off next week.

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I will have an interview or a book or something.

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I'm not exactly sure what that might be, but something a bit different.

Speaker:

And then with the panel in two weeks time, I think Shay will be back.

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By then.

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So, Scott, we might see, well, I'm away this weekend, but you're

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possibly going to be in Brisbane.

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Yes.

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Locked out.

Speaker:

If Brisbane isn't locked down, I'll be, I'll be in Brisbane this weekend.

Speaker:

Right.

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Do you want to tell people where you're going to be or should

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they just contact you privately?

Speaker:

It's up to you how public you want to be with that.

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Contact Scott if you know Scott and you want to see Scott.

Speaker:

Send us a message and I'll get in contact with you.

Speaker:

Yeah, in Brisbane, Sunday afternoon at 3pm.

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Yeah, venue too.

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It's top secret.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

The venue will be made available to you if you wish to contact me.

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All right, no worries, Scott.

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Enjoy that and to everybody else, thanks for tuning in.

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I'll talk to you next week.

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Bye for now.

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Okay, see ya.

Speaker:

Bye now.

Speaker:

Get an O from him.

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Let's say China.

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You take China.

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China.

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I love him.

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China.

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China.

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I have to have my China.

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China.

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China, because China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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I know China very well.

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China.

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Northwest Wisconsin, where I'm from.

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It's China to me.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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You want a buy from China?

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China.

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That's great.

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Buy from China.

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Buy toys from China.

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China in particular.

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China.

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China.

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I have people that I know in China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China.

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China!

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Let me ask you about China.

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China.

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I go to China.

Speaker:

So don't tell me about China.

Speaker:

I know China.

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