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Episode 345 - Election Discrepancies

In episode 435, hosts Trevor and Joe discuss various topics, including election results and voting discrepancies in the UK, comparisons to French elections, and the concept of proportional representation. They delve into generational differences in problem-solving approaches, citing a desire for simple solutions among older generations and a lack of nuance in millennials. The episode also tackles identity politics versus class-based economics, and the perceived failures of neoliberalism. They analyze current Australian politics, including the controversies surrounding Labor Senator Fatima Payman's actions and the support for nuclear energy. Furthermore, the discussion touches on Joe Biden's recent poor performance, Trump’s immunity claims, US foreign policy, and the role of Huawei in global infrastructure. The show finishes with lighter anecdotes, such as humorous political ads.

00:00 Welcome Back to the Show

00:32 Discussing UK Elections

01:01 The Complexity of Modern Politics

02:59 Identity Politics vs. Economic Issues

04:59 UK Election Results Analysis

12:11 Proportional Representation Debate

23:56 French Elections Overview

27:40 Joe Biden's Performance and Age Concerns

29:10 Trump's Legal Immunity

30:04 Presidential Powers and National Security

31:12 Huawei and US Government Dilemma

32:40 Cryptocurrency Sanctions and Anonymity

34:35 Humorous Political Advertisement

36:45 Australian Politics: Fatima Payman and Palestine

41:37 Religious Political Parties Debate

45:33 Malcolm Turnbull on Peter Dutton

47:09 Nuclear Power and Renewable Energy

56:02 Electric Vehicles and Battery Innovations

58:32 Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

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Transcripts started in episode 324. You can use this link to search our transcripts. Type "iron fist velvet glove" into the search directory, click on our podcast and then do a word search. It even has a player which will play the relevant section. It is incredibly quick.

Transcript
Trevor:

Yes, we're back, dear listener.

Trevor:

Episode 435, Iron Fist, Velvet Glove.

Trevor:

I'm Trevor.

Trevor:

Over there on the screen is Joe the Tech Guy.

Trevor:

How are you, Joe?

Trevor:

Good, evening all.

Trevor:

And no Scott this week.

Trevor:

You know, we made it to nine years and one week and he decides to have a week off.

Trevor:

Well, he says he's got a headache.

Trevor:

Get well soon, Scott.

Trevor:

He'll no doubt be listening, uh, on this Tuesday morning when he's doing his walk.

Trevor:

Right, well, what are we going to talk about?

Trevor:

Elections!

Trevor:

UK election.

Trevor:

Very interesting in terms of the voter share and then the share of the seats.

Trevor:

Particularly, it was only last week when I was making the case for proportional

Trevor:

sort of voting and um, and that it seemed a fairer way of doing things and

Trevor:

lo and behold, we had a UK election and it seemed to have a very unfair result.

Trevor:

So we're going to talk about that, French elections, FATIMA payment,

Trevor:

a few other bits and pieces along the way, see how we go.

Trevor:

If you're in the chat room, say hello, that'd be fun and um, yeah,

Trevor:

so But before we do In one of these articles that I'm going to go

Trevor:

through, I saw a quote from a guy, H.

Trevor:

L.

Trevor:

Mentken, who taught, For every complex problem, there is an answer

Trevor:

that is clear, simple, and wrong.

Trevor:

Being wrong doesn't stop such an answer being effective politics.

Trevor:

Um, Joe, I find A desire from particularly the older boomer generation for

Trevor:

simple answers to complex problems.

Trevor:

And that's part of our problem in this world is, is a desire for people to just

Trevor:

see a simple solution and not want to see the nuance and the complications and

Trevor:

how multiple factors add up to solutions.

Trevor:

Multiple factors add up to problems.

Joe:

It's been true of religion.

Joe:

That's why religion, religion is a simple answer to the questions of life.

Joe:

And now a lot of the millennial generation, I would say, like black

Joe:

and white thinking, like you're either with us or against us.

Joe:

You think millennials like that?

Joe:

I think a lot of the millennials I know seem to lack an understanding of nuance.

Trevor:

There we go.

Joe:

Mmm.

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

I think it's a thing that also, if people are on the spectrum in some way,

Trevor:

they have trouble.

Trevor:

Yeah,

Joe:

and I wonder, because the people I'm thinking of are

Joe:

what they call neuro spicy.

Joe:

Neuro spicy?

Joe:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Yeah, so, you know, if you've only got to look at the housing problem in

Trevor:

Australia, there's five, six, seven sort of elements all adding up to that problem.

Trevor:

It's not just the one thing.

Trevor:

So, yeah, it's um, there are complicated, difficult things out there.

Trevor:

And Joe, I reckon that, um, you know, I've been reading a little bit about

Trevor:

identity politics and versus sort of treating things on a class basis and an

Trevor:

economics basis, and I reckon economics is just too hard for many people on

Trevor:

the left, and it's just easier to look at an identity that's oppressed.

Trevor:

And say, got to help the oppressed identity, and really just give

Trevor:

up on the economics, I reckon.

Trevor:

Yeah, I mean,

Joe:

why, why, why look at people's, uh, wealth, and have to figure that out, when

Joe:

you can just look at the skin colour and go, oh, you're black, you're oppressed.

Trevor:

Yeah,

Joe:

so Or rather, you're not white, and therefore you're oppressed.

Trevor:

Yeah, I think there's a real failure on the left.

Trevor:

to grasp the essentials of the failure of neoliberalism since Reagan and

Trevor:

Thatcher and explain that to people in a, in just a simple, straightforward You

Trevor:

know, economics for dummies type style.

Trevor:

There's just way too many people still thinking that trickle down works,

Trevor:

rising tide lifts all boats, and a range of other really bad misconceptions.

Trevor:

And even just with money, Joe, I know you were looking at modern monetary theory

Trevor:

and just the idea that the federal budget is somehow like a household budget.

Trevor:

Bonkers.

Trevor:

It

Joe:

makes sense because that's what we know and this is a complete,

Joe:

MMT is a complete inversion of that and it's not intuitive.

Trevor:

Mmm.

Trevor:

Yep.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

So anyway, that's what we do on this podcast, dear listener.

Trevor:

Try to get into the nuts and bolts of some of the stickier issues and yeah.

Trevor:

Okay.

Trevor:

Well, um, that was just a little intro piece I was thinking of.

Trevor:

Joe, you're our UK election expert, because you're the closest

Trevor:

thing we've got to that anyway.

Trevor:

Um,

Joe:

when I last lived in England, it was pre Thatcher.

Trevor:

Wow.

Trevor:

Yeah, exactly.

Trevor:

You're that old.

Trevor:

I am that old.

Trevor:

So, you know, a landslide in terms of seats for the Labor Party.

Trevor:

So they ended up with 63 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

But they got there with only 34 percent of

Joe:

the vote.

Trevor:

And, uh, the votes that they got were less than what

Trevor:

Corbyn got in previous years.

Trevor:

So there was a low turnout of votes.

Trevor:

And what really happened was that the Conservative vote was split between

Trevor:

the Conservatives and the Reform Party.

Trevor:

Seems to be, and as a result, it was difficult for either party to

Trevor:

finish up in first place in these seats, and that is what helped Labor

Trevor:

gain such a large majority from what was a relatively poor vote turnout.

Joe:

I should have sent you the video of the old bloke who was saying,

Joe:

well of course I was going to vote reform, because you know that that

Joe:

bloke, he was talking about um, shooting the migrants on the boats.

Joe:

He was saying what we were all thinking, and the interviewer

Joe:

says, were we all thinking that?

Joe:

I wasn't thinking that.

Trevor:

Yeah, I saw a guy on Twitter do the math.

Trevor:

So, there was only a 57 percent voter turnout.

Joe:

Yeah, that's fairly poor given that the UK's had 14 years of conservative

Joe:

government screwing things up.

Trevor:

You would have thought they would be lining up with baseball bats.

Joe:

You would have, I mean, they got trounced, but there's

Joe:

a lot of apathetic people.

Trevor:

Maybe, maybe because they looked at Keir Starmer and the Labor Party.

Joe:

Well, yeah.

Trevor:

And thought, um What's the point?

Trevor:

I did see I mean,

Joe:

my gay friends were holding their nose to vote for him,

Joe:

because they've made a number of, oh, it was anti trans comments.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

And they're saying, yeah, really

Joe:

They've done the small target again, so they refuse to engage in any debates,

Joe:

they refuse to make any policies, and, um, Starmer is kind of almost

Joe:

as conservative as the Conservatives.

Trevor:

I saw this good line on Twitter from somebody who said,

Trevor:

Keir Starmer becomes the 6th Tory Prime Minister in 8 years.

Joe:

Hmm.

Trevor:

I'll get on to why, um, it seems like he's going to be

Trevor:

doing further nationalis uh, further privatising of the NHS.

Trevor:

Yanis Varoufakis was talking about how Starmer's employing this guy

Trevor:

who was in Blair's privatisation.

Trevor:

The NHS is screwed at the moment.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

It really is falling to pieces.

Trevor:

Yeah, it seems like Starmer is It's going full steam ahead on, on that.

Trevor:

So no wonder people didn't want to come out.

Trevor:

Um, but yeah, just getting back to the maths of this, um, only 57 percent of

Trevor:

voters, um, potential voters voted.

Trevor:

And then if the Labor Party only got 34 percent of that 57%, you're looking

Trevor:

at 20 percent of the total population.

Joe:

Only

Trevor:

1 in 5 people voted for the Labor Party.

Trevor:

It's

Joe:

hardly a mandate, is it?

Trevor:

And, A lot of those people voted as like a protest against the

Trevor:

Tories or whatever, so they weren't actually voting because they wanted

Trevor:

Labor, it was just that they hated

Joe:

Victorian reform.

Joe:

And because they don't have single transferable vote,

Trevor:

you

Joe:

know, if you vote for anybody else, it's, there's a chance that the

Joe:

Conservatives are getting back in.

Trevor:

So at a maximum, you've got, you've got 20 percent of.

Trevor:

eligible British voters actually voted Labor, one in five, possibly

Trevor:

one in ten if you, if you maximized, you know, the protest vote.

Trevor:

Joe, is there any doubt that Xi in China or Putin in Russia could get 20

Trevor:

percent of the vote if there was a vote?

Joe:

Um, no, probably not.

Trevor:

So when they talk about these sort of authoritarian

Trevor:

regimes as being so terrible, Undemocratic authoritarian regimes.

Trevor:

You could mount a pretty strong argument that those authoritarian leaders

Trevor:

could have got the same percentage vote as Keir Starmer did in the UK.

Joe:

Yeah, I think, um, I think realistically the, the, the people I know

Joe:

that have come from Russia would much rather live in a shitty political system

Joe:

where you can't be bothered to vote for the Prime Minister, the one where you are

Joe:

coerced to vote for the Prime Minister.

Trevor:

But I reckon he could get 20%.

Trevor:

Oh, probably, yeah.

Trevor:

Of, of just, you know, free will voters.

Joe:

Yes.

Trevor:

There's not a lot of difference.

Trevor:

between these authoritarian regimes and democracies now, is what we're getting

Trevor:

to, certainly with this UK example.

Trevor:

So, very interesting.

Trevor:

Um, so it really worked against the Reform Party.

Trevor:

They got 14 percent of the votes, but only 1 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

Boo

Joe:

hoo.

Joe:

Less than 1 percent actually.

Trevor:

Yes.

Joe:

They got four seats in total out of, I think it's 800, something like that.

Trevor:

Meanwhile, the Liberal Democrats got 12 percent of the

Trevor:

vote and 11 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

Apparently, the Liberal Democrats were very strategic and very clever about where

Trevor:

they worked and how hard they worked.

Trevor:

Only in the seats where they thought that they could

Joe:

Yeah, makes

Trevor:

sense.

Trevor:

And they didn't go for some overall vote share, they just gave up on lots

Trevor:

and lots of seats because they couldn't spread their resources thinly, so.

Trevor:

There

Joe:

was actually a website that was, um, something like Tour Is Out.

Joe:

Which was, you know, depending, you put your electorate in and it said what chance

Joe:

there was, whether you could, whether you had to vote Labour or whether you

Joe:

could vote your heart, your conscience.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

Uh, and it was very much strategic voting just to get the Tories out.

Joe:

Yeah.

Trevor:

So, Conservatives got 24 percent of the vote and 19 percent

Trevor:

of the seats, not that far off.

Trevor:

So anyway, as I mentioned last week, you know, I think if you

Trevor:

want a true democracy, you would want proportional representation.

Trevor:

Where, if nationally, As unpalatable as it may seem, if someone like

Trevor:

Reform gets 14 percent of the overall vote, then they should get 14 percent

Trevor:

of the seats in the parliament.

Trevor:

Um, if you, you know, if you believe in democracy, you've got to

Trevor:

believe in it for groups that you don't like, who are distasteful.

Trevor:

Someone like the Greens, 7 percent of the votes, only 1 percent of

Trevor:

the seats, so yeah, so that's um, that's how that panned out in um,

Joe:

in the UK.

Joe:

And Nigel Farage is finally an MP.

Joe:

Yes, yeah,

Trevor:

so yeah, I thought I'd just check how things panned out in Australia

Trevor:

at the last election, Joe, so um,

Joe:

I was going to say, with um, what was the first preference vote for

Joe:

Labor and Liberal of the last election?

Trevor:

Last election the Coalition had 35 percent of the vote and

Trevor:

got 38 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

Labor had 32.

Trevor:

6 percent of the vote and got 51 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

Poor old Greens got 12 percent of the vote and only 3 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

One Nation, again, got 5 percent of the votes, no seats.

Trevor:

Palmer's United Party, 4 percent of the votes, no seats.

Trevor:

And others, which would be, um, Jackie Lambie and people like,

Trevor:

well, she's just other Like various independents as well, I should think.

Trevor:

Yeah, 10.

Trevor:

4 percent of the vote, got 12 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

So, so yeah, even in Australia, with um, with our sort of preferential

Trevor:

voting, Greens, 12 percent of The vote, but only 4 percent of the seats.

Trevor:

Yeah, most of the votes go to, um, Labor.

Trevor:

Labor, yeah.

Trevor:

So it's really an unofficial Labor Green coalition of 55 percent of the vote.

Joe:

I mean, the theory is that We still have a first past the vote, uh, first

Joe:

past the post, but, um, you can vote your conscience and hopefully Labor goes,

Joe:

oh, well, we've lost, you know, this percentage of the vote to the Greens.

Joe:

What policies are people voting on?

Joe:

And hopefully Labor pick up those policies, is the theory.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Nothing's going to change, of course, to proportional, uh, representation.

Trevor:

Until it reaches the point where it suits the Coalition and Labor.

Trevor:

No, of course.

Trevor:

At some point.

Trevor:

So, um, that's when it might, uh, might change.

Trevor:

And I

Joe:

don't know that proportional representation is necessarily that great.

Trevor:

Well, um, it just seems more democratic.

Trevor:

In the sense that it's a better representation of what the

Trevor:

people want, whether that's a good thing or not, isn't it?

Trevor:

Is that what you're

Joe:

saying?

Joe:

Like, like you get an, Because what we find is the same as, um, the

Joe:

scare of a hung parliament, where the crossbenchers get undue power

Joe:

because they're being courted by both sides to get legislation through.

Trevor:

What legislation can you think of that might have been prevented

Trevor:

that we really would have wanted to go through in recent times?

Joe:

Well, um, I mean the classic one was the alleged Greens

Joe:

scuppering of the carbon tax.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

So we're going back a fair way.

Joe:

We are going back a fair way.

Joe:

Well, that was the last time in Parliament that we've had.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

So.

Trevor:

And you mentioned that in Scott's absence, he'd be chomping at the

Trevor:

bit to chip in then, you know.

Trevor:

Ah, okay, um, what else we got to say about this Keir Starmer?

Trevor:

Um, yeah, ultimately it was such a terrible run of Tory governments in

Trevor:

a really poor response by the voting public in terms of switching over

Trevor:

to Labor and Arguably it's because they just didn't like what Labor

Trevor:

was offering, which arguably is just small target, more of the same.

Trevor:

Very much.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Joe:

Had it been Corbyn, I think, um, there would have

Joe:

been more interest in Labor.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Um, let's just see what did, um, what did, what did Keir Starmer

Trevor:

have to say as a priority?

Trevor:

You know, we swept into power and, you know, you could think about all

Trevor:

of the poor people, the inequality, the disasters in the health

Joe:

system.

Joe:

He's as an exciting figure as John Major was.

Trevor:

So of all the topics that you could think about as your

Trevor:

first priority as the new UK Labour Party, Labour Party Prime Minister,

Trevor:

what did Keir Starmer have to say?

UK PM:

It is of course an important summit on NATO.

UK PM:

It is, uh, for me to be absolutely clear that the first duty of my government

UK PM:

is security and defence, to make clear our unshakable support of NATO, um, and

UK PM:

of course, uh, to reiterate as I did to President Zelensky yesterday, um, the

UK PM:

support that we will have in this country and with our allies towards Ukraine.

Trevor:

There we go.

Trevor:

First priority, security and defence.

Joe:

For

Trevor:

fuck's sake.

Joe:

Well, unless people are watching the election and going, Oh great,

Joe:

you know, Russia's going to win this now because the UK's going

Joe:

to pull out of supporting Ukraine.

Trevor:

I've no idea.

Trevor:

That's your first priority.

Trevor:

Defence and security.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

The disaster that is the UK economy.

Trevor:

Well, at least he didn't say it was stopping the boats.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Yeah, they've apparently overturned the Rwanda.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Joe:

Where nobody has been sent, so who knows whether it was

Joe:

ever going to happen anyway, but

Trevor:

It's just, it's like what we got with Albanese.

Trevor:

You get a few soft issues, easy ones, and then the rest is all the same as what the

Joe:

toys

Trevor:

were offering.

Joe:

Otherwise the City of London wouldn't have accepted them.

Trevor:

Yeah, people, um, people recognise that, I guess.

Trevor:

They're going, I can't get excited about Labor, so, and they didn't get

Trevor:

excited, so Yeah, meanwhile, Reform Joe, 14%, Populist Nationalism.

Trevor:

Yep.

Trevor:

Um,

Trevor:

yeah.

Trevor:

I read something here on Twitter from Steve Reid MP.

Trevor:

What is breeding populist nationalism is grotesque levels of inequality.

Trevor:

If you look at the areas that are most likely to vote for reform,

Trevor:

They are areas that have been completely abandoned for far too long.

Trevor:

So Labor's plan to grow the economy, you have to have regional economic

Trevor:

growth, so those areas will have to be, so those areas that have been

Trevor:

completely left behind and abandoned have some hope in the future.

Trevor:

If you have people with no hope to the future, they cling to a misremembered

Trevor:

Version of the past, nostalgia politics.

Trevor:

We have to make the economy work for peoples everywhere if you want

Trevor:

to tackle the causes of reform.

Trevor:

Sounds like Trump's, um, Rust Belt, Rust Belt.

Trevor:

And that sounds like Yeah,

Joe:

I mean, um, the seats they won were coastal towns.

Joe:

Coastal towns in the UK tend to be geriatric centres because young

Joe:

people can't afford to live there.

Joe:

Ah, okay.

Joe:

So, I think they're actually appealing to the boomer demographic.

Trevor:

So not so much Rust Belt in that sense.

Trevor:

I wouldn't have thought so.

Joe:

I mean,

Trevor:

just rusty knees built.

Joe:

Probably.

Joe:

Rusty hip replacements.

Joe:

Um, they certainly weren't the working areas.

Joe:

You know, um, Wales, well, Wales was Plaid Cymru, because of course

Joe:

that's the Welsh Independence Party.

Joe:

Um, so all of the areas of high unemployment in Wales.

Joe:

And then, um, north of England is mostly Labour.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

Because there is, England is seen as a divided country where basically

Joe:

there's London and the South and then there's the rest of the country.

Joe:

And London and the South gets all the money.

Joe:

And does it get all the money?

Joe:

Um.

Joe:

Or is it just seen that way?

Joe:

No, I think it is.

Joe:

I think there are much higher levels of not investment.

Joe:

It's kind of changed.

Joe:

European Union actually helps quite a lot with their city of culture.

Joe:

Which various regional cities have had and had huge cash injections.

Trevor:

Yeah, so that's the UK, um, you know, next election, even

Trevor:

though he's got this massive majority of seats, the actual vote was not

Trevor:

strong, it could all turn around.

Joe:

Oh, absolutely.

Joe:

I think if, um, there's a very high probability that they'll get, admittedly

Joe:

it's five years unlike over here.

Joe:

So they've got five years to turn the economy around, but if it isn't turned

Joe:

around in five years, rather than Labour going, well, it was a complete shit

Joe:

heap you left us, and we've only had five years, and we're turning it around

Joe:

slowly, but we haven't got there yet.

Joe:

Um, the Conservatives will just go, look at how they've screwed up the

Joe:

economy, look at all the debt we've got.

Trevor:

Yep, it doesn't take long and you inherit it, so it's like Albanese

Joe:

here

Trevor:

is inheriting this cost of living crisis, um, pretty much, it's his problem,

Trevor:

his baby is how it's perceived even though the economy is like the Titanic, it

Trevor:

takes a long time to, Turn things around.

Trevor:

So yeah, well, we'll see how that pans out.

Trevor:

Just before we leave the UK, just a bit of propaganda from BBC News.

Trevor:

Headline read, five killed by Russian strike in central Ukraine.

Trevor:

And then three days later, airstrike on Gaza school kills at least 15 people.

Trevor:

And the difference is, dear listener, when it comes to the Ukraine, it's a

Trevor:

Russian strike, but when it comes to the Gaza, it's simply an airstrike.

Trevor:

It's an airstrike.

Trevor:

And no mention of the Israelis.

Trevor:

So, this is the kind of subtle propaganda.

Trevor:

There's an example from the BBC News.

Trevor:

French election, Joe.

Trevor:

And so they have a system where they sort of do a round of voting, and some

Trevor:

of the lesser lights drop off, and then they have another round of voting.

Trevor:

After the first round of voting, uh, Marine Le Pen's party, the fascist party,

Joe:

The Rassemblement National.

Joe:

Thank you.

Joe:

The National Rally, somebody translated it as.

Trevor:

They did quite well in the first round of voting, and we're very hopeful

Trevor:

of doing well in the second round.

Trevor:

Second and final round, I think it's done.

Trevor:

Yes.

Trevor:

And came third, to everyone's

Joe:

surprise.

Joe:

Yeah, I mean, I was talking to Dad about it, I think, after the first round.

Joe:

Because Dad lives over there.

Joe:

And he was saying that, um, it's kind of what happened with the presidential vote.

Joe:

Um, the first round of elections, people again vote with their conscience, but

Joe:

there's enough concern when she gets up in the first round for people to

Joe:

go, oh shit, I didn't really mean it.

Trevor:

Right.

Trevor:

And also a bigger turnout, I think, in the

Joe:

subsequent rounds.

Joe:

Yeah, um, you know, it's the old leopards at my face.

Joe:

The what?

Joe:

You're not aware of the Leopards Ate My Face meme?

Joe:

Leopards Ate My Face, no?

Joe:

Yeah, Leopards Ate My Face is the person who voted for the

Joe:

Leopards Ate My Face party.

Joe:

It was after Brexit.

Joe:

Okay.

Joe:

So, the whole thing about Brexit was people were going, well, we wanted to

Joe:

vote against, we wanted to protest vote against Europe, we didn't want to leave.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

And then we're shocked when so many of them wanted to protest

Joe:

vote actually got the leave vote.

Trevor:

Yep.

Trevor:

Yep.

Trevor:

In the chat room, Andrew said, because in Ukraine it can be

Trevor:

either side doing the airstrike.

Trevor:

Five killed by Russian strike in central Ukraine.

Trevor:

Okay.

Joe:

Well, Hamas aren't doing airstrikes.

Trevor:

Ukrainians could have been doing the airstrike in central Ukraine.

Joe:

Well, maybe in the Donbas.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

I think it's always a good idea to identify who's doing the airstrike.

Trevor:

So good on them for saying it was a Russian strike in central Ukraine.

Trevor:

Perhaps they could have said, Israeli airstrike on Gaza.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Okay, um, uh, what did I read on the French one?

Trevor:

That um, that the French centrist and leftist parties strategically

Trevor:

withdrew candidates to bolster each other's contenders ahead

Trevor:

of the decisive second round.

Trevor:

So they got their shit together and instead of stealing votes from each other.

Trevor:

Left the way open for non Le Pen.

Joe:

And the voting maps that I looked at were very confusing.

Joe:

Because, you know, unlike in the UK where you got very clearly which seat

Joe:

is won by which party, in France it was What was the biggest percentage between,

Joe:

or what was the percentage difference between the two largest parties?

Joe:

So it was just showing how divided the areas were, rather than who was winning.

Trevor:

Hadn't had a chance to look closely at the French one,

Trevor:

but um, anyway, good to see France dodged a bit of a bullet there.

Trevor:

It was looking a bit ugly, so.

Trevor:

And there

Joe:

was a concern that, you know, European, or Europe in general, was

Joe:

getting more nationalistic and right wing.

Trevor:

So,

Trevor:

so that's something positive.

Trevor:

A podcast that's had a lot of negative things lately.

Trevor:

That's good.

Trevor:

Um, Joe Biden in the,

Joe:

uh,

Trevor:

in the sort of aftermath of his appalling performance in the debate has

Trevor:

had to defend his poor performance and he's been on some different interviews

Trevor:

and he was on an interview on ABC News where he dismissed concerns about his age.

Trevor:

Um, And he said, only the Lord Almighty could drive him from the race.

Trevor:

Looks like he's going to be starring, Joe.

Joe:

Well, given the Lord Almighty's a fictional character, yes.

Trevor:

Yep, he's there until the Lord Almighty, um, drives him from the race.

Joe:

One can only hope the Lord Almighty will take, um, Trump from the race.

Joe:

Yes,

Trevor:

um, yeah, and he also had another excuse.

Trevor:

Let me find this clip where they were.

Joe:

Well, he had jet lag,

Trevor:

didn't he?

Trevor:

Well, and he's been busy.

Trevor:

Um, like, check this, check this out.

Trevor:

He has been busy.

Trevor:

This, this is true what he had to say here.

Joe Biden:

Oh, sure, but I was also doing a hell of a lot of other

Joe Biden:

things, like wars around the world.

Joe Biden:

He was

Joe:

fighting in wars

Joe Biden:

around

Joe:

the world.

Trevor:

He was busy with wars.

Trevor:

You know, that's true.

Trevor:

It took his attention.

Trevor:

Busy with wars.

Trevor:

That's an excuse for you.

Trevor:

Thanks, Joe, for that.

Trevor:

Um, what else have we got?

Trevor:

Um, a little bit on the US.

Trevor:

Um, um, I haven't had a good chance yet to look at the Trump immunity.

Joe:

They ruled that anything that was done as a president, as opposed

Joe:

to as a private citizen, was illegal.

Joe:

Couldn't be prosecuted.

Joe:

Yes.

Joe:

So anything that was done under executive order basically was legal.

Joe:

Yes.

Trevor:

Some people took that as being that if Joe Biden Issued an

Trevor:

order for somebody to assassinate Donald Trump right now, then he would

Trevor:

be immune from prosecution under the Interpretation under the Supreme Court.

Trevor:

I don't know if it goes that far It sounds like a joke, that it could do, but nothing

Trevor:

would surprise me at this point, Joe.

Joe:

Yeah, I think, until somebody's actually gone through

Joe:

the legal Yeah, what's a private citizen and what's a president?

Joe:

If the president decides that Trump is a danger to the US, because he

Joe:

was an insurrectionist and decides to execute him unilaterally, arbitrarily?

Joe:

Yes.

Joe:

Uh, that's a presidential decree.

Joe:

It's not a private citizen.

Trevor:

I mean, um, Obama spent a lot of mornings, um, looking at information

Trevor:

provided for drone strikes, giving the final okay, yes, kill that man

Trevor:

there, yes, kill that man, maybe not that one, yes, kill those people over

Trevor:

there, and then the drone strike would be made and they would be killed.

Trevor:

And that was all done as part of national security assassinations.

Trevor:

In theory.

Trevor:

Killing off your political opponents.

Joe:

Yeah, absolutely.

Joe:

Well, that's the scary part is because, uh, people are saying this, this is

Joe:

another step on the road to fascism.

Trevor:

Hmm.

Trevor:

Democracy.

Trevor:

Mm hmm.

Trevor:

Um, Joe, there is a law which prohibits government departments from dealing with

Trevor:

anybody who's using Huawei as a, uh,

Trevor:

In any way.

Trevor:

Because they're so scared.

Trevor:

It's their infrastructure, yes.

Trevor:

Yes.

Trevor:

Yep.

Trevor:

There's an article in Fortune Magazine.

Trevor:

The Pentagon has a problem.

Trevor:

How does one of the world's largest employers avoid doing

Trevor:

business with companies that rely on China's Huawei technologies?

Trevor:

So far the Defence Department is saying it can't.

Trevor:

So despite a 2019 US law that barred it from contracting with anyone who uses

Trevor:

Huawei equipment, the Pentagon is seeking a formal waiver to its obligations, um,

Trevor:

which bars them from signing contracts with entities that use Huawei components.

Trevor:

The rationale is that Huawei is so firmly entrenched in the systems of

Trevor:

countries Where it does business, that finding alternatives would be impossible.

Trevor:

And there are certain parts of the world where you literally

Trevor:

cannot get away from Huawei.

Trevor:

So, so the law, um, basically for security reasons, preventing, um, U.

Trevor:

S.

Trevor:

governments from dealing with any kind of Supplier using Huawei.

Trevor:

It's the actual defense department that wants the exemption.

Joe:

Yes.

Joe:

I had an interesting podcast this week.

Joe:

Um, basically there was a bunch of stolen cryptocurrency that was suspected

Joe:

that North Korea had stolen it.

Joe:

And there was some software that was being used to basically take lots of

Joe:

transactions, jumble them together, and effectively money laundering.

Joe:

But it's a privacy thing.

Joe:

Anyway, the U.

Joe:

S.

Joe:

government has applied sanctions onto this bit of software.

Joe:

How you put sanctions on a bit of software, we don't know.

Joe:

But anyone who uses this bit of software, uh, technically is breaching U.

Joe:

S.

Joe:

sanctions.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

And so, um And it's encryption type software.

Joe:

Well, it's an anonymizer.

Joe:

It's not even encryption.

Joe:

So it anonymizes your transaction.

Joe:

Anyway, somebody discovered all this and to protest the law has anonymously

Joe:

sent 50, 000 US dollars to every, um, Any political figure, any public

Joe:

figure that has an Ethereum wallet has anonymously sent the money that has been

Joe:

anonymized through this bit of software.

Joe:

And therefore, uh, various actors, politicians have received money

Joe:

that has been laundered through this system that has been sanctioned.

Trevor:

Ah, surely they weren't, they didn't get 50, 000 each?

Trevor:

No, no, no,

Joe:

no, there's 50, 000 in total has been

Trevor:

traced.

Trevor:

Right.

Trevor:

Right, so okay, so they'll basically be, under this law, these people are

Trevor:

guilty for receiving money that's been anonymized through the software.

Joe:

It was to point out the stupidity of the law.

Trevor:

Hmm, yes.

Trevor:

Ah, US sanctions.

Trevor:

Yes.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Um.

Trevor:

Interesting clip.

Trevor:

I found this one just a funny one in terms of advertising for US

Trevor:

election, um, just as a little humorous, um, break in the podcast.

Trevor:

Have I listened to this one, dear listener?

Trevor:

This was an obviously a Trump or Republican advertisement.

Bidenica:

If you're having trouble sleeping, ask your doctor about

Bidenica:

Bidentica, the sleep aid made from 100 percent Joe Biden press conference.

Joe:

The best way to get something done, if you, if it holds near and dear to

Joe:

you, that you, uh, um, like to be able to

Bidenica:

Bidentica has a patented blend of confusion and forgetfulness that

Bidenica:

will calm the most overactive brains.

Bidenica:

COVID has taken this year,

Joe Biden:

just since the outbreak, it's taken More than 100 years.

Joe Biden:

Look, here's the lives.

Joe Biden:

It's just, it's, I mean, think about it.

Bidenica:

When they sold out American jobs and killed the Keystone

Bidenica:

Pipeline, it kept me up all night worrying about how we pay our bills.

Bidenica:

But then I got Bidentica and I've never slept better.

Bidenica:

Sometimes when I get hopped up on sugar, my parents give

Bidenica:

me Bidentica so I pass out.

Bidenica:

Other times they give it to me during the day, probably so they can do the deed.

Bidenica:

Gross.

Bidenica:

Warning, people.

Bidenica:

People who have used Bidentica have experienced rapid lying and an

Bidenica:

inability to secure the southern border.

Bidenica:

Others have hallucinated and fought breakfast cereals.

Bidenica:

Corn Pop was a bad dude.

Bidenica:

Ask your doctor if Bidentica is right for you.

Trevor:

I don't think that's a real ad, but it might be.

Trevor:

Anyway, it should be.

Trevor:

Well, the news

Joe:

come from faux news, so

Trevor:

That would, uh That would win votes, that one, I reckon.

Trevor:

That was well done.

Trevor:

Botanica.

Trevor:

Now, where are we?

Trevor:

Um, we've done UK, we've quickly done French election, we've

Trevor:

done a little bit on America.

Trevor:

Let's return home, Australian politics.

Trevor:

Um, Fatima Payman, that, um, Labor Senator from Western Australia who,

Trevor:

um, supported the Greens motion.

Trevor:

Joe.

Trevor:

Um, what exactly was the difference between the payment position and sort

Trevor:

of the Labor Party caucus position and the Labor Party convention

Trevor:

national conference position?

Trevor:

So payment crossed the floor to support a Greens motion that called on the Senate

Trevor:

to Recognise the State of Palestine.

Trevor:

That was the motion.

Trevor:

Labor wanted to add an amendment which was, As part of a peace process with

Trevor:

support for the two state solution and a just and enduring peace.

Trevor:

So the original motion called for the recognition of the State of Palestine.

Trevor:

Labor's amendment was, As part of a peace process.

Trevor:

Now, at the National Conference, the most recent one, the position of Labor

Trevor:

was put forward as this, Labor supports the recognition and right of Israel

Trevor:

and Palestine to exist as two states within secure and recognised borders.

Trevor:

And B, the conference calls on the Australian Government to

Trevor:

recognise Palestine as a state.

Trevor:

And C, expect that this issue will be an important priority

Trevor:

for the Australian Government.

Trevor:

So, it's a sort of an A, B, C in the um, conference position.

Trevor:

And B is, Recognise Palestine as a state, and that was the Greens

Joe:

motion.

Joe:

Right, but it misses out A, which possibly is considered a prerequisite.

Joe:

Uh, so, but it's not contradictory.

Joe:

It's not contradictory.

Joe:

It merely misses out the step that says, not as a state as in the whole boundary

Joe:

of what we would consider both countries, but as part of what is currently Israel.

Trevor:

Hmm, and certainly in the National Conference.

Trevor:

Didn't put in only after it all were subject to a peace process.

Trevor:

So the caucus was adding something that the National Conference

Trevor:

didn't put in its statement.

Trevor:

So I reckon Fatima Payman was closer to the right.

Trevor:

national conference than what the caucus was.

Trevor:

Anyway, like I appreciate that, um, you know, if she went on the ballot paper

Trevor:

as a Labor senator, a member of the Labor party to support Labor values.

Trevor:

And I would be really pissed with, I do get really pissed with people who get into

Trevor:

Parliament and then say, oh, I'm now going independent, I'm not part of the party

Trevor:

that, um, got me here in the first place.

Trevor:

Like, I think she only got something like 1100

Joe:

votes for

Trevor:

herself.

Trevor:

So she only got in because of, of Labor.

Trevor:

So it annoys me when people, you know, drop the party

Trevor:

and say, I'm an independent.

Trevor:

But I'm just a little sympathetic in this case, because she was closer to the Labor

Trevor:

Convention than what the caucus was.

Trevor:

So, uh,

Joe:

it's tricky.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Joe:

She has some sympathy there.

Joe:

I noticed that one of the MPs in the UK was from a, uh, Palestine.

Joe:

This was for Palestine, he said, and it was all about, it was a Muslim area.

Joe:

Uh, my concern would be If that is the plank, if that is the main thing that

Joe:

you are standing for a UK parliament for, that, that's not a position.

Joe:

You know, if, if the rest of your politics is, I don't know, more,

Joe:

more work for the working people, more support for the working people,

Joe:

you know, tax the rich, whatever.

Joe:

Plus you're going, alright, and we think there should be peace in Palestine.

Joe:

But to be, for that to be your main plank, just worries me.

Trevor:

So apparently there's talk that Fatima Payman has been

Trevor:

talking to Muslim leaders about a Muslim based political party.

Joe:

Yeah,

Trevor:

that's not good.

Trevor:

No, but an Albanese came out basically saying that's not good

Trevor:

for Australia's social cohesion to have a Muslim based political party.

Trevor:

But hang on a minute, we've had plenty of faith based parties in the past.

Trevor:

And they've not been good.

Trevor:

Exactly.

Trevor:

So Joe, you're right, it's not good.

Trevor:

Um, uh, having religion as the basis of your political platform is not

Trevor:

good unless it's a political party.

Trevor:

to be anti religious as a political platform, i.

Trevor:

e.

Trevor:

the secular party that we all remember.

Trevor:

But again, it

Joe:

wasn't anti religion.

Joe:

It was all about secularism.

Joe:

It was separating religion from state.

Joe:

Indeed.

Joe:

It wasn't about enforcing atheist doctrines in schools.

Trevor:

Yes.

Trevor:

It sounds like Albanesia has never heard of the United Christian

Trevor:

Party, the Australian Family Movement, the Christian Democrat

Trevor:

Party, the One Australia Movement.

Trevor:

Family First Party, Australian Christians Party and Family First Party are all,

Trevor:

they're all Christian based, um, they're all faith based political groups.

Joe:

He would have interfered in our personal lives, given half a chance.

Joe:

Indeed.

Joe:

And a Muslim party would be the same.

Trevor:

Indeed.

Trevor:

It's

Joe:

just

Trevor:

pathetic that, oh, it kind of is Muslims organising when there's

Trevor:

been a bunch of Christians organising.

Trevor:

For quite a long time as political parties.

Trevor:

So yeah.

Trevor:

Um, um, anyway, one of the Greens, I think Senators Mareen Faruqi was

Trevor:

being interviewed by David Spears.

Trevor:

Um, and she reminded him that the Senate imposes a daily Christian prayer.

Trevor:

So, you know, we're starting to object to Muslim.

Trevor:

Political parties.

Joe:

Well, hopefully they'll pull the Christian prayers out then.

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

To overcome an obvious hypocrisy, Joe?

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Don't hold your breath.

Joe:

Well, um, what was the last referendum?

Joe:

Not the last referendum, the last, um, census?

Trevor:

I can't remember the figure.

Trevor:

For the non religious?

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

Or even for the Christians.

Joe:

Cause it's a Christian prayer.

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

It was below 50 percent of the population were Christian.

Joe:

Yeah.

Trevor:

This is from Albanese who declared that the three driving

Trevor:

forces in his life was the Labour Party, the Rabideaus Football Club

Trevor:

and, um, God, the Catholic Church.

Trevor:

Peter Dutton.

Trevor:

Anyone

Trevor:

Turnbull's current view of Peter Dutton is?

Joe:

Oh, I heard.

Trevor:

Let's, um

Joe:

You've also heard about his son?

Trevor:

His son.

Trevor:

Dutton's son.

Trevor:

With a bag of white powder.

Joe:

Yes.

Trevor:

Yeah, I think, um, he didn't ask to be a public figure.

Joe:

No, he didn't, but given Dutton's very, very public comments about

Joe:

how he was drug squad and Friendly Geordie's comments about Peter

Joe:

Dutton's possible closeness to people.

Joe:

Careful.

Joe:

Selling large quantities of, um, drugs.

Trevor:

Tell Blake Powder.

Trevor:

No.

Trevor:

You're suggesting anything Joe?

Trevor:

Um, no, no, no.

Trevor:

I'm really

Joe:

saying that Friendly Jordy's was suggesting things.

Trevor:

Ah, right.

Trevor:

Um, no, I think family are off limits.

Trevor:

I think that was really poor to Right.

Trevor:

Put that on the front page.

Trevor:

As much as I despise Dutton, I think, um, I think that's below the belt anyway.

Trevor:

What does Malcolm Turnbull think of Peter Dunton ton?

Trevor:

He was on the project.

Trevor:

They're best friends.

Trevor:

Yes.

Turnbull:

What do you think, uh, what do you think, what

Turnbull:

sort of Prime Minister will.

Turnbull:

Peter Dutton make if he wins?

Turnbull:

Uh, I think that's something we should contemplate with dread.

Turnbull:

Oh, really?

Turnbull:

Why's that?

Turnbull:

Well, he's a thug and he, look, Peter's got one tune that he plays.

Turnbull:

I mean, and that's been all his political life.

Turnbull:

And that is division and animosity, generally targeted at immigrants.

Turnbull:

Uh, it's, uh, it is really, I couldn't think of anyone less

Turnbull:

suited to be prime minister of a multicultural society like Australia?

Turnbull:

I mean, you know, you look, I, I mean, there's no point pulling my punches.

Turnbull:

It's an important question.

Turnbull:

I've given you an honest answer.

Trevor:

Fairly blunt.

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

What do you expect from an ex copper?

Trevor:

I just, you know, former prime ministers don't

Trevor:

normally bag the, um, you know.

Trevor:

They're comrades of the same party, as fiercely as that, in public.

Joe:

They won't do it in private.

Joe:

I have to say that Turnbull was

Joe:

definitely not of the party.

Joe:

He might have been an old fashioned member of the Liberal Party, he's

Joe:

not a member of the modern party.

Joe:

No,

Trevor:

he was old school Liberal Party, but not the current one, indeed, yeah.

Trevor:

Um, yeah.

Trevor:

Hey, remember we said last, the other time, about the nuclear power plants,

Trevor:

that, um, so, The seven sites, each with one plant, will contribute, um,

Trevor:

seven gigawatts in total to the grid?

Trevor:

Yeah, yeah.

Trevor:

Um, and if you had two plants, that would be 14 gigawatts?

Trevor:

So, uh No,

Joe:

no, no, so That was if they were the biggest plants we've ever

Joe:

seen at 2 gigawatt, 2 gigawatts each.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

Then 7 plants would give us 14 gigawatts.

Trevor:

Yes, that's right.

Trevor:

So roughly sort of, um, 2 gigawatts per

Trevor:

Per site,

Joe:

of those 7 sites.

Trevor:

Yes.

Trevor:

Um, so that meant that each power station was worth about a gigabyte.

Trevor:

I mean, let me just read this point from previously, um, Output, uh, for plant

Trevor:

sites ranges from 1 gigawatt per plant per annum, um, which has been the US

Trevor:

average actual production, through to 1.

Trevor:

3 gigawatts, which is the UK's two plant Hinkley point complex, to 2.

Trevor:

4 gigawatts for Finland's three unit site.

Trevor:

So in the 1 to 1.

Trevor:

3 gigawatt per nuclear power station.

Trevor:

And, um, China, has recently, um, connected a solar farm,

Trevor:

uh, world's largest 3.

Trevor:

5 gigawatt just in solar.

Trevor:

You could have handed to them.

Trevor:

They know how to build infrastructure in that country.

Trevor:

They know how to build stuff.

Trevor:

So yeah, solar farm, 3.

Trevor:

5 gigawatts.

Trevor:

And Joe, it only cost In US dollars, a tick over 2 billion.

Trevor:

Cheap as chips!

Joe:

Yeah, their labour chip, their labour costs are much lower.

Trevor:

Yeah,

Joe:

but still, cheap.

Joe:

It was interesting having talked to Pump Hydro, uh, to see the

Joe:

numbers for, um, Snowy Hydro 2.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

Saying it, it is also over, um, over delay, it's late and over budget, um,

Joe:

possibly not as bad as Nuclear, but certainly Pumped Hydro isn't going

Joe:

to be as cheap and easy as we think.

Trevor:

But that particular project is a very fraught with danger one, that one,

Trevor:

because of the soil conditions and what they were digging in terms of the large

Trevor:

tunnels through a very large system.

Trevor:

A lot of the pumped hydro is going to be much smaller stuff, well a

Trevor:

lot of it, I mean there will be some big stuff, but yeah, yeah,

Trevor:

um, what else have we got here,

Joe:

uh, um.

Joe:

And again, um, I, I agree that.

Joe:

There was something about, even with 100 percent renewable, we're still

Joe:

going to need some form of, um, peaking, as opposed to constant supply,

Joe:

power station, gas power station.

Joe:

I read an article, but, um, there's a possibility of creating green hydrogen.

Joe:

So you take your excess power, turn it into hydrogen, and then you can burn it

Joe:

in a power station whenever you need, and that is suitable long term storage.

Trevor:

Yep, a mate of mine worked at a, uh, power station in Townsville.

Trevor:

Which ran on jet fuel.

Trevor:

And when the market conditions were, you know, necessary, then

Trevor:

they would fire it up, and it would otherwise just lie there idle.

Trevor:

And, um, he would get a call on his mobile phone to, um, if he was at home, get to

Trevor:

work, because we're going to fire it up.

Trevor:

And, um, He could initiate some of the warm up procedure using his mobile

Trevor:

phone so that by the time he got in there half of it was warmed up and

Trevor:

away they'd go and, um, and fire this thing up, so so yeah, it's possible

Trevor:

to have things like that sort of thing run on hydrogen that fire up as needed.

Trevor:

And if the hydrogen is being produced in a green way,

Joe:

perfectly fine.

Joe:

I also saw Telstra had applied and been granted a power

Joe:

generator license.

Joe:

I think it was, it was a license anyway.

Joe:

Um, because they have so much solar now on their buildings that they can

Joe:

sell their capacity from the grid.

Joe:

So rather than powering all their infrastructure by, by Buying

Joe:

electricity from the grid, they can promise not to buy that or use that

Joe:

energy and generate it internally.

Joe:

In fact, that's right, they were running their own generators.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

Because the cost to them of running their generators was less.

Joe:

And the price that they would get from a power company by saying we won't consume

Joe:

this energy for this period of time.

Trevor:

Right.

Trevor:

There we go.

Trevor:

That was Telstra.

Joe:

Yeah, so they could bid to not use energy from the grid and they would get

Joe:

paid for the energy they didn't use.

Trevor:

What sort of facilities do they have where they've

Trevor:

got such a large bank of

Joe:

solar?

Trevor:

Oh,

Joe:

telephone exchanges.

Joe:

You think of how many buildings across the nation, how much roof space that

Joe:

is, and if you put solar panels on it.

Joe:

There's a lot of buildings like that.

Trevor:

Right.

Trevor:

Okay.

Trevor:

There we go.

Trevor:

Um, what else did I have?

Trevor:

Just depressing stuff about the Central Pole, number of

Trevor:

people supporting Peter Dutton.

Trevor:

It's too depressing to go there.

Trevor:

The figures are way too high.

Trevor:

A number of numbnuts who think that nuclear is cheap,

Joe:

yeah,

Trevor:

and that nuclear is cheap compared to renewables, it's just

Trevor:

depressing, and of course it's the same thing, men more likely to get it wrong

Trevor:

than women, old people more likely to get it wrong than young people.

Joe:

I did hear today.

Joe:

That Uranium contains about 18 billion calories per gram.

Joe:

So if you ate a gram of Uranium, it would last you for the rest of your life.

Trevor:

Is that in some weird forum?

Trevor:

It was a meme.

Trevor:

Oh, okay, just the modern sense of flat earthers?

Trevor:

No, no, no.

Trevor:

Seriously?

Trevor:

Yeah.

Trevor:

What else have I got here?

Trevor:

Hmm.

Trevor:

I think that's, Joe, I think that's enough.

Trevor:

A bit of a short one, dear listener.

Trevor:

Yeah, a bit of a short one.

Trevor:

There's a book out on the sub fiasco called Nuked.

Trevor:

A guy, Andrew Fowler.

Trevor:

I was a bit excited about this book, Joe.

Trevor:

Um, you know, the subtitle is The Submarine Fiasco That

Trevor:

Sank Australia's Sovereignty.

Trevor:

I listened to him in an interview and he was talking about how we had this

Trevor:

perfectly, it seemed like he was quite happy with the French submarine contract.

Trevor:

And most of his criticism was towards the Orcus arrangement.

Trevor:

I hope that's not the case, I'm going to get the book and read it,

Trevor:

but, um, because it was obvious to everybody that the French option

Trevor:

was just bloody stupid as well.

Trevor:

Because

Joe:

If we bought the French option, we should have gone for

Joe:

the nuclear in the first place.

Joe:

I mean, if you're going to go nuclear, you might as well have

Joe:

just done it from the get go.

Trevor:

Correct.

Trevor:

Having a nuclear design and then deciding, well, we'll just pull

Trevor:

out the nuclear power plant and put in a diesel power plant,

Trevor:

was described by submarine experts as fraught with danger and the most

Trevor:

complicated thing you could possibly Um, so anyway, I will get to that book.

Joe:

There was somebody talking about, oh, you know, all these cars, can't

Joe:

we just make them electric vehicles?

Joe:

And someone said, well, no, electric vehicles are designed

Joe:

as electric from the ground up.

Joe:

You know, the batteries, uh, Put down at the bottom because of the

Joe:

center of gravity and there's so much engineering goes into it.

Joe:

Technically, you can do it, but it's cheaper to build it from scratch as a

Trevor:

I was watching this video where they were in China again,

Trevor:

electric cars, and basically the driver would drive up onto a ramp.

Trevor:

And this machinery would come and, um, detach the battery

Trevor:

from underneath the car.

Joe:

Oh, I've seen that for motorbikes in Vietnam, I think.

Trevor:

Right.

Trevor:

And, and then reattach a fresh battery underneath the car.

Trevor:

All done within a minute.

Trevor:

And off they go.

Trevor:

Sounded a brilliant solution, um, for, um, sort of the delay of recharging batteries.

Trevor:

At least with a sort of a taxi company could just have a whole bunch of these

Trevor:

just recharging and zero downtime for the drivers who were still in

Trevor:

the car as this was all happening.

Joe:

Don't know how it would work for a car because the batteries

Joe:

in a car is an awful lot of space.

Joe:

So effectively, it's, it's the whole of the underfloor of the vehicle.

Joe:

So yeah, if you can detach the whole underfloor, it's incredibly heavy as well.

Joe:

So what I saw was, um, on the electric scooters, where you pulled out a cylinder

Joe:

that was, I don't know, 50cm by 10 by 10.

Joe:

And you pulled this thing out and then there was a bank of chargers and you just

Joe:

slotted one in and pulled another one out.

Trevor:

Yes.

Joe:

And paid your 2 transfer fee, recharge fee, so you basically

Joe:

plugged in your old battery and pulled out a new battery, plugged it into

Joe:

your scooter and carried on, which would make sense for city driving,

Joe:

I don't know, for highway driving,

Joe:

and again with vehicles, yeah, maybe if you were a taxi fleet, You could

Joe:

have the infrastructure, but otherwise

Trevor:

You wouldn't be wanting to swap somebody else's dodgy battery

Trevor:

for your battery potentially.

Trevor:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Trevor:

I

Joe:

mean, it's like the swap and go with, um, uh, the barbecue gas.

Joe:

Yeah, well, that's Because, you know, the, the gas cylinders

Joe:

are only good for 10 years.

Joe:

Mm.

Joe:

And so you put in your brand new cylinder that you've just paid

Joe:

because the, the old one screwed you over and you've expired your 10

Joe:

years, so you've got a brand new one.

Joe:

And then you hand it in and they give you one that's got a year left on its Yeah.

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

Yeah.

Trevor:

Anyway, that's all, uh, gonna happen down the future, I'm sure.

Trevor:

So, right, well that's enough for this episode.

Trevor:

Dear listener, I think, uh, you're around next week, Joe?

Trevor:

Got anything on?

Trevor:

Uh, not that I'm aware of, no.

Trevor:

Okay, very good.

Trevor:

Um, uh, what does John said in the chat room?

Trevor:

Um, right or wrong, she will be out at the next election?

Trevor:

Payment.

Trevor:

Ah, okay, yep.

Trevor:

Um, um, yeah.

Trevor:

And, um, yeah.

Trevor:

Alright, well, thanks to your listener for listening.

Trevor:

We'll be back next week, probably with Scott and Joe and myself.

Trevor:

We'll talk to you then.

Trevor:

Bye for now.

Joe:

And it's a good night from him.

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