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Episode 323 - The situation is hopeless, we must take the next step

In this episode we discuss:

  • No Vax Jock Evicted
  • Deep Throat on where to inject
  • When a jab is not a jab
  • Tanks! Fucking Tanks!
  • More from Dutton
  • An election year
  • The Saturday Paper Editorial
  • Bettoota, The Chaser and The Shovel
  • Rat Shortage
  • No Free Rats
  • Joe has been battling “free thinkers”
  • Spending has crashed
  • Stats
  • Media Bias
  • Patrons
  • Tony Blair was knighted.
  • A Statue for the Queen?
  • Church’ defends decision to terminate worker who got COVID jab
  • ABC broadcasted a Xmas Message from Hillsong
  • Religious but using a civil celebrant?

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Transcripts started in episode 324. You can use this link to search our transcripts. Type "iron fist velvet glove" into the search directory, click on our podcast and then do a word search. It even has a player which will play the relevant section. It is incredibly quick.

Transcript
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Ah, dear listener, we're back.

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The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast.

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Back for another year, and it's already kicked off with some amazing

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stuff happening in the world of news and politics and sex and religion, so

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we're looking forward to a big year.

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If you're in the chat room, say hello.

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Some of you are already there, which is good.

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Uh, Watley, uh, Diastrates, Jack H is there, so good on you guys.

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If you're in the chat room, say hello, and You know, a little bit of a straw

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poll, uh, Novak Djokovic, should we kick him out or let him play?

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We'll be talking about it obviously, so let us know your thoughts, um,

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your vote either way and we'll see what you've got to say and maybe

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you'll, maybe your mind will change as we'll talk about things, so.

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I of course am Trevor, aka the Iron Fist, uh, with me when she's not

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flying around the world or Australia.

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Shay, the subversive, hello Shay.

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Good evening.

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And Joe the Tech Guy.

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Evening all.

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So we're back for another 2022.

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Joining us later, um, a special, uh, surprise for you will be Deep

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Throat, who's going to talk about, uh, vaccinations and where the

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needle should actually go in your arm and a few other things like that.

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He's sitting in the green room, um, looking like Santa Claus at the moment,

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and, uh, he's ready to go when we've finished about Novak Djokovic, and I

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can see him there, and, um, deep throat, if, if you're really keen to contribute,

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put your hand up, and we'll put you, we'll put you through, so, but, uh,

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anyway, yes, okay, 2022, we're kicking it off, and, um, hello David Cox, and

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hello Daniel in the chat room, Wow.

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Um, No Vax, Jock Evicted, uh, is what I've titled this episode.

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Um, Shea, is, is tennis something that you keep track of?

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Are you a sport, do you follow sport like that at all?

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No, not really.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I did watch Ash Barty at Wimbledon.

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Yep.

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But that would be the first time in years.

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Have you felt compelled to follow this whole drama, or have you just

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been like, Nah, couldn't care less.

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Like, what's it been on your scale of interest?

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It's, um, been hard to escape.

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Mm.

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Yeah, it's just been, it's been everywhere.

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Facebook, Twitter, the news, um, all my news podcasts.

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So, kind of do, it is interesting.

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Mm.

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There's not a lot of other things going on necessarily, so.

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Um, except we've bought 3.

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2 billion dollars worth of tanks and a few other things that we'll talk about.

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Oh, oh, okay.

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If you're in the chat room, uh, leave him in or throw him out.

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And, uh, David is in the, uh, throw him out camp.

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Let us know your votes as to what we should do with Novak Djokovic.

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So, um, really it's a bit of a conundrum here because, uh, as it

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was said in Crikey, I think it was in Crikey, an article I read which

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said that, uh, Australia is a country that defines itself by two things.

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Uh, we love our sport and we love talking, uh, taking down

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or chopping down tall poppies.

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So really the case is which one do we enjoy the most here?

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Do we want our sport or do we want to chop down a tall poppy?

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Um, really, Morrison's really boxed himself into quite a conundrum

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here in, and it's hard to see him escaping this without significant

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damage, so, you know, on the one hand though, this isn't unusual.

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I mean, every few years, Australia takes an international superstar

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hostage for unclear reasons and then we release them without explanation, and

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this is very popular with Australians.

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And if you're wondering what we're talking about, well the examples historically

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are, um, Johnny Depp and Amber's Dogs, Pistol and Boo, if you remember.

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We threatened to deport them.

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Ah, it will be interesting.

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Apparently there may be perjury charges on that one.

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Oh, really?

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On the, on the Pistol and Boo saga?

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In the divorce case, uh, there was further evidence came out that

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Amber Heard had perjured herself.

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Okay, so that was Barnaby Joyce, of course, who threatened to do that.

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Frank Sinatra, when he was in town many, many years ago, and he got in trouble for

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calling, uh, female journalists broads, or hookers, or something like that.

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And so, basically, Bob Hawke got the, uh, transport industry Basically refused to

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fly him and he was holed up in a hotel room until he apologised and worked out

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a settlement and was allowed to move around the country and eventually leave.

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So, we have held an international superstar hostage before.

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Um, other examples, um, The Who.

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The band The Who toured Australia 1968 flanked by Two Small

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Faces, which was another band.

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And, uh, they're playing lots of gigs and But the tour was cut short after an

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incident on an Ansett flight from Adelaide to Essenton that seemed remarkable

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for its mildness more than anything.

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En route to Melbourne, a bottle of beer was produced, and

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off colour language was used.

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Before long, Prime Minister John Gordon had sent a telegram to the band, insisting

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that they leave Australia never to return.

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We've got form on this.

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And Joe Cocker was expelled in 1970 for drug possession.

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And that's why drug abuse is completely unknown in this country.

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What a farce, what a fiasco, what an incompetent bunch of numbnuts we've got

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in charge of this country who can't even stop a tennis player from coming in,

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who they knew was a rabid anti vaxxer.

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They couldn't have written to him, flagged it, worked it out with the

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tennis officials beforehand, a dire warning saying we're not letting him in.

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It's just Management 101, if, of course this is going to blow up, but if you're

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too busy putting on fluoro vests and attending the cricket and other, and

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holding up a fish that you've just cooked for a curry dish, and, and if you're

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just into these sorts of things, you're not doing the real work of government.

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And if your staff is just full of people who are doing your tweets and your social

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media posts and they're not thinkers.

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Then, and then, if you just are looking for a knee jerk, if you knee jerk react

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to everything and you're looking for what you think might be a good distraction

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from the moment, so when rats are unavailable or expensive in the systems.

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You know, catastrophe, and you think, oh, here's a diversion,

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we'll talk tough on Novak Jokovic, and then you get caught out.

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If you're just lazy and grossly incompetent and are not able to

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just sort of see things through, this is where you end up.

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And ah, here's the thing though, dear listener, I just got a message from a

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close right wing friend of mine, and he was like, ah, fuck ups, they all do it.

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Look at, look at Labour with the, with the um In summation, Bats, that killed four

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people and it was a complete catastrophe, they all do it, they're all the same.

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Like, for some people you will never change them, you'll, no matter how

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grossly incompetent this bunch is, there are some people you'll never change.

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Sorry, how many deaths are we going so far?

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I mean, nowhere near the rest of the world, but Yeah, uh, actually, I looked

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it up, actually, and it is, um 2, 416 in Australia, since the beginning, yeah.

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But for some people, you just, no amount of Four deaths is absolutely

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unbelievable, shouldn't be allowed, and then two and a half thousand,

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oh well, you know, they all fuck up.

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Exactly.

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Some people you'll never convince about just what a bunch of hopeless,

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corrupt, fucking wankers these guys are.

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But hopefully enough of the younger generation.

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are seeing something about this and are recognising what have we

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got ourselves into with this crowd.

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You would think, Shay, do you hold out hope that this, people will

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remember this or will they forget?

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I'm worried they're going to forget.

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Like, this is only January.

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I really don't think the young people are the problem.

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He is speaking to the boomers.

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This has got boomers, populists all over it.

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Young people don't traditionally vote for the Liberal National Party.

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They will see this as a stunt.

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And I think they're hoping, they're hoping, certainly I am, that like,

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he's been, he's, Novak Djokovic has basically held Scott Morrison to account.

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He had a little bit of power, he used the power, good.

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I would actually, my contempt for Scott Morrison has gotten so big

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that I would stand shoulder to shoulder with Novak right now.

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Right.

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And fucking let him play.

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The more humiliation we can bring to Scott Morrison, the happier I am.

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Seriously, it's a disgrace.

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It's really, really impactful.

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The lack of, um It's negligence, not just incompetence.

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Maybe it'd be more embarrassing for him though, if he does Actually, put him on

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a plane and send him out of the country.

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The world media will come crashing down on him at that point.

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It could be worse.

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Like, what is the best option here?

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Do Australians really care what the world thinks?

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Apparently not.

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He should, you know, um, unfortunately, his win is going to be seen as

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a validation of all the ND Vax's points ever, uh, and it's just

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going to give them more bravado in ignoring and flatting our laws.

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And, and so, I think We wear it.

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We say Australia is a sovereign nation.

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So what if you think you had permission from Tennis Australia?

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Tennis Australia is not the, um, immigration service.

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Correct.

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We'll get on to the details soon.

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We'll just have a little bit of a rant and get out some frustration from three

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or four weeks of watching this shit show.

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It looks like in the chat room you guys are a bit the same.

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Like you've launched off with an amazing amount of comments here.

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So, uh, David was in the throw him out camp, uh, Steel Wolf says

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agreed throw him out, um, uh, Steel Wolf, Steel Wolf asks, is it some

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sort of tag and release program?

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You kiss him as you throw him back into the water.

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Um, uh, let me see, uh, Craig B says can't believe he's still here, and

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Daniel says we're a sovereign nation, we can turn away whom we please,

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but I agree it's beyond a farce.

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Celebrity and sports people are a law unto themselves, so, okay.

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So if you just joined the chat room, let us know, um, your opinion, uh,

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should he stay or should he go?

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What should happen to Novak?

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Now, if he stays there will be trouble?

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If he goes there'll be trouble.

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It's a no win situation now for Morrison.

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Who declared, by the way, this is when, um, he declared, Mr

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Jokowicz's visa has been cancelled.

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Rules are rules, especially when it comes to our borders.

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No one is above these rules.

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Our strong border policies have been critical to Australia

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having one of the lowest death rates in the world from COVID.

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We are continuing to be vigilant.

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Ordinarily you'd say, it's impossible to make that statement and not pull

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the trigger on the special powers that the Immigration Minister has.

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For fear of appearing to be a massive hypocrite.

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But of being, the fear of being a massive hypocrite.

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This doesn't rate with these guys, does it?

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So, um, uh, okay, um, right, so in the beginning of this whole saga,

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there was a lot of talk about what did Tennis Australia say to Novak?

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What assurances did they give?

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And At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they said.

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I could have been completely fraudulent about what advice they were giving him.

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It's not Tennis Australia's, um, role to decide what the rules are.

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So the rules are there in place, and if Tennis Australia mucked them up

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or didn't muck them up, really bears nothing in relation to what happens

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to Jokovic, other than maybe he could sue Tennis Australia for damages.

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Or misleading him, if that's what they did.

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So, but it has absolutely no bearing on the actual outcome of his entitlement to a

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visa as to what Tennis Australia told him, uh, if, if it was contrary to the rules.

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So, um, I saw a tweet from somebody that said, um, Read the fine print.

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Did Tennis Australia tell him that federal border restrictions

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were a different process?

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Anyone should work that out.

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Just because I've got a ticket to Disneyland doesn't mean I've

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got a visa to enter America.

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That's a good analogy, actually.

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They had rules in relation to competing in their tennis tournament,

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and Victoria had rules in relation to quarantining in Victoria.

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But that's all quite separate to whatever the rules are that the

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Federal Government has in relation to allowing people into the country.

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And as much as Morrison will try and deflect and blame Dictator Dan for this,

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surely everybody recognises that it's the Federal Government's role as to who

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comes into the country or not on a visa.

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Surely.

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They did their best in the early days to try and Distract and blame Dan and blame

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Tennis Australia, but I think everybody's pretty much worked that out, surely.

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Well, Border Files are a federal force.

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Border Files are a federal force, aren't they?

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Yeah, indeed.

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I'm a little bit worried that the judge in the case didn't actually work that out.

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We'll get to that.

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Well, I was going to say, he just said, uh, you didn't give him due process.

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Well, but he said more than that.

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He said, what more could this man have done?

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The answer was Got vaccinated?

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Indeed.

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It's not difficult.

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Stayed at home if you didn't meet the visa entry requirements.

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Something like 90 percent of all Australian adults have managed it.

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Yeah.

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So, um, so what have we got here is, um, in the court case, essentially,

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dear listener, this is about procedure, and was the correct procedure followed

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when Border Force rejected him?

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And And the case that Jokowicz won was not, was not on the substantive argument

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of whether he was validly entitled to a visa and had met the requirements.

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The argument he'd won was that the border officials Border force

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officials did not use the appropriate procedure when kicking him out.

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And that's a totally different thing to the substantive issue.

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So, so it's really, because what they did was, um, uh, they made procedure,

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in the end they decided that there were procedural errors and In the

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small hours of Thursday morning, officials promised Jokovic until 8.

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30am to seek advice about the proposed cancellation.

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They reneged on that, abruptly cancelling his visa at 7.

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42am.

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One official wanted the matter resolved before their shift ended.

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That's where they made their mistake.

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They said one thing and they did another.

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They made a procedural error.

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So, there was no decision made about the Act and whether he had complied with it

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in terms of the requirements for a visa.

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So, what happens with, uh, this sort of judicial administrative review is the

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court doesn't substitute a judgement and doesn't say, are the decision maker,

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um, should, I hereby order the decision maker should have done this, X, Y, Z.

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The judge simply says, the process was wrong and the decision arrived

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at at that process is quashed, now go back and do it all again.

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Like go back and, and reprocess it again and this time don't make the same mistake.

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That's, that's what happens in these judicial review cases.

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So, um, By way of explanation with our Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons

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that is currently before the Supreme Court in Queensland, and we're still

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waiting on a judgement five months later.

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Presumably we've got some merit in this case.

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I'm starting to get excited about it.

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There were two parts to it.

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It was basically, we applied to run Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons and

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we filled in the form and we submitted it.

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And the, uh, in my view, the decision makers who rejected us, did so because

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they relied on reasons that we had had no opportunity to object to.

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They just said, you're rejected because of X, Y, Z, and we

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meant, what do you mean X, Y, Z?

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Like, nobody ever asked us about that.

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You, you never came to us and asked us about those things, so

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your rejection of us was invalid.

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So, we've got a really, really strong case to have the procedural letter.

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thrown out and for the whole case to go back to the Department

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of Education who will then be asked to make the decision again.

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And, and, and our case is a little bit different because we also then sought

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an order, a declaration as to our validity as a religious organisation.

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But the reason why we sought that declaration is because Just getting a, for

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us, just winning on administrative review isn't good enough because it just sends

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it back to the original decision maker who can still just screw you over again.

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So, so that's what's really happened in this case where the judge has said

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procedurally Border Force mucked it up.

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The decision's no good and now it's open to Border Force to make the same decision

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again but this time do it properly.

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Or it's also open to, um, one of the Ministers for Immigration to use some

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extraordinary powers that they've got and just kick him out anyway, so, so,

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so it's basically all about procedure and the fact that they'd, uh, mucked up

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the procedures, which is extraordinary because apparently while all this was

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happening, like, imagine you're in Border Force and you're going to be

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kicking Jokovic out of the country.

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You reckon you're not ringing some pretty high up people and

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saying you want me to do what?

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What do I say next?

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At four in the morning.

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Yep.

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He's asked for a delay until 8.

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30.

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I told him yes.

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Okay, but you're telling me now I don't have to?

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Okay, like all of this would have come from very very high up It's

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not just some poor Border Force employee With his Gestapo black

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outfit acting on his own here.

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Like he's clearly Talking to his superiors.

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They were on the phone to Dutton.

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Yeah, and to muck it up procedurally, despite all that, shows that

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there weren't many lawyers in the room, by the sounds of it.

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So, um, so yeah, so that's where we're at, is that, um, despite what the

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judge said, it was all about procedure.

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It's entirely open to the government to actually look at the rules and say,

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you did not meet the requirements.

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Here is a fresh decision, where we have complied with all the

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things, procedures we need to comply with, and you're out, mate.

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The other one is that there's just this extraordinary power, because,

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because we in Australia have, have a, um, a particular expertise in not

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allowing people into the country, the act in question has these amazingly

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broad and incredible powers for the relevant minister, just to say, I don't

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feel like letting you in, out you go.

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Without any review.

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So, they've definitely got the power to do it if they want to, you know.

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Politically though, now, is the question.

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They're just, it's, it's now about how to, what's the best decision

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in terms of the next election?

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There's nothing in this about, oh, what's in Australia's best interest

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in terms of vaccination and keeping people safe and examples for the future.

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It's all about, bloody hell, what do we do now so we can win the next election?

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I don't know which one's the best option, but, I don't know.

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Good luck.

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Yeah.

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So, that's what we've arrived at.

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Um.

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Yeah, I mean, there were some comments about, um, effectively, you have to

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be vaccinated to enter Australia, unless you have a medical exemption,

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and the medical exemption is only a temporary reprieve, because you've

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been unable to get vaccinated.

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So you either cannot be vaccinated or for some reason you were a little more

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unable to, in which case you've got six months to do it because you've been ill.

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But that's not a, uh, a free pass.

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It, it's not a, yeah, because when it comes back next year

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and we still demand vaccination, is he gonna catch covid again?

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It's he, he's, well, he's trying to gain, he's gaming the system.

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He's demanding an exemption.

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He's demanding special privilege.

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And I think the answer is no.

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Fuck off.

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But doesn't he meet that eligibility requirement because he can get

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a medical exemption on the basis that it's not recommended to get

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a vaccine after you've had COVID.

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There's a period of time you have to wait.

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Two weeks.

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I think This is the difficulty.

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We have until the 16th of December, so what's the date today?

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After the 30th of December.

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The difficulty with all this is that as you're reading stuff and people

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are quoting rules, you don't know whether that's a Tennis Australia

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rule, whether it's a Victoria quarantining rule, or whether it

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is a federal government visa rule.

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And people, as I'm reading stuff in social media, and even in Um, reputable, um,

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mainstream media are getting these things intertwined and mixed up all the time.

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So, um, I read somewhere and I haven't had the chance all the time to verify

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it, which was that under the, under the Migration Act, um, the fact that you, um,

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you, you couldn't rely on the fact that you've previously contracted a disease.

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As a reason for not being vaccinated, like it specifically said that

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in the, in the Migration Act.

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Now, you'll see other people quoting other stuff, um, but that's to do

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with often Victorian quarantining rules and Tennis Australia rules

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and not the federal visa rules.

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So, the reporting on this by the media has been terrible because they say things

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like, Djokovic is one, he'll be playing.

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Without, without stopping and going, well of course the federal government can still

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make the decision, like, they just knew nothing about it, these people, and, and

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the confusion where they've been chopping and changing between Atargi rules.

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Victorian rules, Tennis Australia rules and, and migration rules makes

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it really confusing to try and, um, um, get to the final answer.

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So, um, so yeah.

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But it certainly is the case that the, the Minister can just say on public

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interest grounds, I'm saying you're out.

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Apparently I was looking on Twitter, I've actually been following Twitter

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a little bit in recent times and somebody was saying on that, that,

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um, That they're looking heavily at whether he lied about whether

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he travelled in the last two weeks.

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Apparently when you fill in your form, you have to say whether you have done

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any overs travelled between countries in the last two weeks, and he said no.

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And they're looking at his social media posts, which seem to indicate Yes, so

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the point was he flew out of Spain, so he had to have been in Spain for at least

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two weeks, and it looks like he didn't leave Serbia until a week before he flew.

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And there's some other posts with him, social media things, where he's

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appeared at different things, so.

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But also, he was supposed to isolate for two weeks after testing

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positive, and he was pictured out in public with no mask on.

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But more importantly.

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On the visa application, when you are asked have you travelled between

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countries in the last two weeks and you say no, and at the bottom of the

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application it says if you've lied about anything in your responses, that's a

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serious problem and we may use that as a reason for rejecting your visa.

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So, they are madly scampering now to see whether he lied on those sorts of things

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and will use that as sort of ammunition for potentially bouncing him out.

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What a mess.

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What a complete mess.

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And if he gets kicked out for this, he's banned for three years,

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although that's a case by case.

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They could always waive that.

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They could always say, up to three years.

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So they could say, well, you can come back next year, if you want to.

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Oh, dear oh dear.

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Okay, um.

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My personal view is, is that if they let him play, that will be it for them.

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I just think particularly Victoria will be so outranged if they let

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him play that they'll definitely lose the federal election.

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Right.

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That's my view.

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I think Australia's largely centrist.

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I think the

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Uh, sounds like Shea has just Frozen, and she disappeared.

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Hopefully she'll come back.

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So, um, David in the chat room says, It took me two years to get visa,

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to get my visa to come to Australia.

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Every single part of every form had to be absolutely correct.

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Why is it not the same for Novacs?

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I think it might be David.

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I think they're going through it with a fine tooth comb.

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Um, uh, let me just see.

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Um Uh, did we block Dire Straits for any reason, Joe, in the chat?

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Have we blocked anybody?

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No, I've, I've looked.

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It might be the bot.

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Okay, it might be the bot who did automatically Dire Straits.

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We didn't do it, um, so, uh, let's see.

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Cause Dire Straits thought he was, uh, it was blocking him swearing.

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Yeah, no, I don't think it might have just, uh, come through quickly.

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So, okay, hopefully Shea's, um, reconnecting and coming back to us

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and Um, what else have I got here?

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Oh, so of course, the Serbian, um, President came out in support of

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Novak Djokovic, um, called for the end to the harassment, um Yeah, he

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said, why are we picking on him?

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He's not a Muslim.

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Yes, um, at least he cares about his people.

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Well, there is that.

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So, Morrison, um, if you're looking at Julian Assange, is just saying, well

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that's a matter for, uh For the, uh, authorities in the UK, and, uh, nothing

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to do with us, so At least the Serbian President cares about his people.

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Uh, also Um, Barnaby Joyce has said that Novak Djokovic's detention is not hurting

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Australia's international reputation.

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Which might be a fair enough opinion, except back in 2015, in relation

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to gay marriage, um, he told the ABC Insiders program that basically

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Australia's support of gay marriage was harming our international reputation,

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particularly with places like Indonesia.

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Um, he said that I think what we have to understand is that when we go there,

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there are judgments, whether you like it or not, that are made about us.

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And they see in how we negotiate with them, whether they see us,

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whether they see us as decadent.

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So that was Barnaby Joyce saying, one of the problems with marriage equality

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was what would people think of us.

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Meanwhile, um, he doesn't see any problem with what, uh, is

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happening with Novak Djokovic.

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Um, you know, what would I do now if I was in charge?

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Sorry, Sarah, you said you would, um, what would you do?

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You'd let him stay or you'd kick him out?

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What would you do with York?

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I think that if they, if, I think that if they let him stay and play, that

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will be the end of their government, because the outrage will be so, um,

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palpable, particularly for Victorians, who've fallen all, all the rules.

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And, um, met all these standards, only to be let down so badly.

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What would you do if you were in charge?

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If you were trying to minimise the damage?

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Well, what would you do?

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Is it the right thing now?

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What would you think is the right thing to do?

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Ignoring whether you want to win an election or whatever, what do

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you think is the right thing to do?

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Um, the right thing?

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God, I haven't thought about that a lot.

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It's hard to, isn't it?

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We get so used to, how can we fuck these people over or how

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can we screw the system or?

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Um,

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What about you, Jo?

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While Che's thinking.

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Let him play.

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Let him play.

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The right thing to do.

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Joe, if, you know, just It's the right thing to do if you are a benevolent

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dictator in, or what, no, if you're just I just want to do the right thing here.

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What, what do you think should happen?

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I think the right thing is kick him out.

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Um, he's gaming the system.

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Uh, whether or Tennis Australia thought he was valid or not.

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Um, we have rules.

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He's trying to get an exemption to the rules.

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And it sends a bad message to those people who feel coerced into getting vaccines.

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So those who have been vaccinated despite their misgivings.

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And it aids those who think that they have a right to ignore the

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rules and not be vaccinated.

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I think it's not good for us.

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Okay.

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Before he left, I would have definitely said, you're not allowed in.

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I would definitely have been in favour of saying, keep him out because he

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just doesn't comply with the rules.

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And, what, if we're just going to let everybody in who's been, had

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COVID but hasn't been vaccinated, and that's a complete change of our

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system, um, would that be so bad?

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So, if we did change the rule and just said, oh, if you've had COVID you can

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come in, would that be a catastrophe?

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So, we can change the rules, but the problem is, why are we

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changing the rules to suit him?

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Or, like, rules have really got to be changed a lot now though.

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Like, um, for example, checking in at every cafe that you go to.

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Why, what's the point now?

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So, should we just give up on demanding that people are vaccinated because

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the majority of us are vaccinated?

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Yeah, I mean, have we reached, when do we reach the point where we just go,

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the whole point was to get vaccinated so that we can move on, and have not we,

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have we not reached that point at now?

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Well, but then, you know, um, you, there's many countries that still

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demand the yellow fever vaccination.

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Mm.

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Before you travel to the country, you know, why can it not be part of,

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um, our, our border requirements?

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There was, certainly when I applied for my visa to come here, um, I couldn't be HIV

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positive and I couldn't have tuberculosis.

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So You know, and that was because, yeah, and that was because we don't

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want to have to pay for your health care in the, which you have a much

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higher risk of, of, so if Djokovic caught COVID and ended up in hospital

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on a ventilator for months, right?

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Okay, well, that's, so being unvaccinated, having had the disease, does that make

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your chances of hospitalisation far less?

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Um, if he's had Delta and he catches Omicron, probably not.

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If his head on the economy catches a vibe, Delta, probably not.

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Deep throat, do some homework in the meantime before you come on on that one.

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Might need your help.

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But, you know, it's things like, um, for example, people coming in overseas who

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are having to quarantine for two weeks.

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Meanwhile, people who are already here and we know have got COVID,

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we're saying, oh, one week's enough.

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Like this, and that's clearly a bizarre inconsistency.

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Like.

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So we are really in the realm where a lot of these rules have to start

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changing, I think, and Alright, let's bring in some consistency.

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Enough with the cough up.

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You know, working in airports, I was so expecting to see much better management of

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the vaccination status, the requirements, the PCR tests, and of course we didn't.

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There's not been a single police check on me or any of the passengers

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in any of the flights I've done.

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Not a single one.

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Right.

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Yep.

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So I think there is a case for procedural fairness.

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We do need a consistent line, so fine, but we're not actually demonstrating

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that in Australia or anywhere else.

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So I really don't see why we have to either make Ol Mate a martyr

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or Yeah, I think it's great.

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He used some of his power to call out the procedural unfairness and the

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clock, clock ups that keep happening.

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Mm hmm.

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Plenty of other people, like, I can see in the chats, plenty of other people

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who, like, have suffered some unfairness or had to do things a particular way.

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Yep.

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So from a health management perspective, it's still a good idea to force people

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to be vaccinated and just having had the disease really, uh, uh, is

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a, it's, it's a different thing to having been vaccinated in terms of.

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our health management process, it seems.

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So the vaccination is a known dose with a known outcome.

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The problem with catching the disease is you can test positive,

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you've had a minor dose.

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Which gives you limited, um, antibodies, uh, or you could have a major dose,

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which, yeah, protects you fully.

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The question is, with a live, uh, infection, we don't know how

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much, uh, immunity you've got.

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Whereas it's a lot more consistent with a vaccine where there's a known dose.

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It's not perfect, but there's a better outcome.

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Yep.

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And in the end, it's not a lot to ask.

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Just get a needle in your arm, hopefully in the right spot in your

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arm, which we'll get to very soon.

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So, yeah, okay.

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So we can sort of come to the conclusion.

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It's, uh, from a health management perspective for our,

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uh, country, it's still a good idea to insist on vaccinations.

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The fact that you've had the disease, too bad.

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Just get vaccinated.

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And, really, if we allow him to stay, then, for consistency, we

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should be saying, um, yeah, otherwise we're opening the floodgates

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to everybody in that situation.

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So, uh Just on that point on procedural fairness and proper systems, Bernard

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Tomic is on Twitter at the moment.

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Uh, he let rip to one of the Tennis Australia officials because he's

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pretty sure he just lost his tennis match and he reckons he absolutely

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will have contracted COVID.

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And he found it absolutely appalling that the only thing that was protecting,

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um, He's frozen again, Trevor.

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No, we can hear you.

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Um, perfect.

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The only thing that was, that, the only protection in place was the rapid

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antigen PECR test or anything else.

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Right, so he's saying, so he contracted COVID on a tennis court

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by a tennis player, and that's what, and that's what's costing the game.

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Oh, during the game he contracted it.

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I'm not sure about that, I think, I've heard lame excuses

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for losing a tennis match.

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But he does make the same point is we've got to have some consistency,

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we've got to have a proper system, we've got to, you know.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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And We won't have to practice Jopovich now, anyway.

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In, uh, in the chat room, um, what have we got?

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Um, uh, Steel Wolf said Shay is a bot, everybody look busy.

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That's when you disappeared.

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Uh, Die Straights is a good one.

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The right thing to do is the opposite of whatever the prime marketer thinks.

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That's, that's a very good Die Straights.

Speaker:

I like that.

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Um, Watley says the right thing to do is to boot him out.

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David says I live in Victoria.

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Everyone I work with thinks he should be thrown out.

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Victorians will stop following any guidelines if he stays.

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So, um, that's a good point.

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I mean, here in Queensland, we've been largely immune from all of this stuff.

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Immune's not the right word, but you know what I mean.

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And, um, but yeah, people have gone through a lot in places like Victoria and

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have thought that others are sidestepping it, uh, and gaming the system.

Speaker:

Uh, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker:

So, oh well, um There we go.

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So, let's introduce Deep Throat and I'll bring him in now.

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So, Deep Throat, you're live on air.

Speaker:

Welcome back to the podcast.

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And have you got your microphone on?

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Because I can't hear you.

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You're talking away and You, um, you keep talking and I'll tell you when I

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can hear you, Deep Throat, because I can't hear you at all at this stage.

Speaker:

So, allow access to How's that?

Speaker:

How's that?

Speaker:

That's better.

Speaker:

We can hear you, Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Hello, everyone.

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For the third time.

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Good to have you back on, uh, Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Now, the reason for talking to you is you described a situation to

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me where you were in a pharmacy watching somebody get vaccinated.

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Do you want to tell the story and what your thoughts are about that?

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Yeah, yeah, I will.

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I just thought maybe I'd give people a little bit of background.

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At one stage I was, um, running, or my team, I was part of a team running a

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vaccination, um, um, system in one state in a developing country, so, and it

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was a nightmare trying to get vaccines to rural areas, um, in poor areas in

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India, um, and keep the cold chain going.

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So, um, it's, it's, you know, in that chain where you're getting

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vaccines out, it only takes one little hiccup for it to all go wrong.

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Okay.

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So, and, uh, so anyway, getting back to my story, which I told Trevor about, um,

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Um, I was at my local pharmacy and, uh, and he was really busy because he was

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doing some vaccinations with Moderna.

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And I was thinking to myself, oh, maybe Moderna might be better than getting

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the Pfizer because I sort of, you know, was booking in for my booster

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and Pfizer was going to be it and I was sort of tossing up that sort of thing.

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And then he went off into his little sort of cupboard, um, area

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to, um, uh, to do the vaccine.

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And then he comes out with, uh, with this and after giving them vaccine to this.

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The woman and, uh, and my heart sort of froze because I saw where,

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where he'd done the vaccine.

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It was definitely suboptimal, um, and not really This is where the band

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aid was placed on the person's arm.

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Yeah, the band aid was placed.

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He shared a nice band aid on there.

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Something like, I've just had COVID or something.

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I can't really read it myself.

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It mentions COVID, so, um, it is a little bit above the insertion of the deltoid

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muscle there, but not, not very much.

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And, uh, um, it's It's supposed to be an intramuscular injection, and

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there are probably a few muscular fibres there as you can see from the

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anatomy book there, but not many.

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Okay, so on the screen, dear listener.

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So, you were in the pharmacy and you just sort of surreptitiously took a

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photo of a shelf and you just happened to capture this arm in the background.

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Yeah, that's right.

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It was just a sheer accident that this arm just happened to appear in the

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shot as I was taking a photo of the instructions on some medications there.

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That's right.

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So you just happened to have, yes, so on the screen to your

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listener is the arm in question.

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And the spot where the injection was is very, very high up

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compared to where it should be.

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Is that what we're saying?

Speaker:

No, no, it's in the middle there.

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It's where the band aid is.

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Oh, hang on.

Speaker:

Let me see.

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See the band aid?

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Oh, way over on the edge there.

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Yeah, well, I can't point it, but it's where the band aid is.

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So, uh.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah, dear listener, there is a band aid.

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Basically we're that, um, yeah, it's way over on the side.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Oh, I'm like, okay, I was looking at a different photo.

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Yeah.

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So it's around the side from where it should be.

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Yeah.

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So for those of you who want to know about anatomy, it's an intramuscular injection,

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the COVID injections, and they're supposed to go into the deltoid muscle.

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Um, and most people know what the deltoid muscle is, but what they

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might not know is it inserts actually halfway down the humerus, which is

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the upper, the bone in the upper arm.

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Okay.

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Um, and at that spot, it's mostly tendon, um, as it is where that X

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is at the top there, where it is, where the origin of the, um, the

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muscle is, and that's tendon as well.

Speaker:

So, if you're injecting it down as low as where he is injecting it, then, um,

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your chances of hitting muscle are, you know, like, vanishingly small,

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really, because there's not as much muscle there, it's mostly tendon, so.

Speaker:

So I'm, I'm sort of thinking to myself, has this woman had a intra

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tendon injection, which is nowhere that I know is that's where you're

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supposed to give her the vaccination.

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And if you get an injection into the tendon rather than the muscle

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is it almost useless, is it?

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Um, well yes, I tried to find out about intra tendon injections

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and there's nothing to find out because no one does that.

Speaker:

So I'm on shaky ground because I can't give you any scientific evidence.

Speaker:

I was thinking to myself, that must have really hurt what she hadn't done there.

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And I'm thinking tomorrow, in the day after, I'm thinking the next day for

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her, she's going, Oh, gee, that was a terrible, terrible COVID vaccine.

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It's really hot and red and sore.

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And so, so yeah, so I went home and I put together this

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sort of a bit of a info form.

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And then I went back to the pharmacist and said, Oh, look, um, You know,

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I don't, I don't want to be mean or anything like that, but I think

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you gave it in the wrong spot.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

Speaker:

Here's, here's, here's it, and, uh, um, I, I think he took it on board,

Speaker:

and I'm, I hope he's professional about it, and, uh, and has learned

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something from that, um, and, uh, he did say that, he did say that, look, you

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know, you know, people make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from their

Speaker:

mistakes, so, so I think he took it in.

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In good form, really.

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So, but anyway, that's, that's my story there and, and I got that from,

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I think that might have been, um, also on the CDC website about, you know,

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where vaccines are supposed to do and that adverse reaction there, which is.

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The sort of thing this poor woman might be looking at the

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day after with, um, inflammation and, uh, and swelling and that.

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But the other thing is, um, there's a good chance, you know, that it

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hasn't taken, you know, as a vaccine.

Speaker:

She thinks she's had a booster or whatever it was and she's fine.

Speaker:

Um, if it doesn't go into the muscle where there's a good va, you know,

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vascular, um, vascularization of that tissue, then it hangs around a

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bit in the subcutaneous tissue and therefore it will tend to get denatured.

Speaker:

Um, and therefore might not have as much effect as it should have.

Speaker:

So, so.

Speaker:

Here I'm thinking, like, there's been, what, well over 100 years of vaccine

Speaker:

development and, you know, we've had this massive thing on, on, you know,

Speaker:

genetics and genetic engineering and they've got this vaccine done in the

Speaker:

Pfizer labs and they've got it out and they've gone all the way through here

Speaker:

and then some pharmacist gives it in the wrong spot and I'm going, oh wow,

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you know, like, gee, come on, come on.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Every step of the chain has to be in place, as you say.

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Every step.

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There's only need one, one thing has to go wrong and, and, and you're done.

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And, uh, and I've seen that happen.

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Now, some places take this very seriously, the positioning.

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Deep Throat.

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Tell that story as well.

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You know how when you get your, you know, you've had your COVID vaccine

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and probably on the first one you get that sheet, or hopefully you haven't,

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and you've got to tick the boxes.

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No, I don't have this, I don't have this, I don't have that.

Speaker:

And on that sheet there's a particular condition.

Speaker:

Unfortunately, my wife has one of those conditions, rare conditions,

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where she can't have the vaccine.

Speaker:

And so, we were sweating on this because her immunologist, um, was

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saying, Look, if you get COVID, it's probably going to kill you.

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If you get the vaccine, there's no good chance of killing you.

Speaker:

So, we were sort of in this terrible situation.

Speaker:

But, what they did was at the Royal Brisbane Hospital here in Brisbane,

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um, they, um, opened up a specialist vaccination clinic for people who have

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problems with vaccine, vaccination, um, to see if they can get rounded and help them.

Speaker:

So, so her immunologist You know, referred her along to this vaccination

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clinic and she went through the whole process and got the different vaccines

Speaker:

tested to see which would be the safest and then, you know, holding her breast,

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she goes in there and gets it done.

Speaker:

But the interesting thing was when they, um, when she was having it

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done, the nurse who did it measured out, you know, using the anatomical

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landmarks and marked where it should go.

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And she actually did it three times to make sure it was exactly where it

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should be using the needle that was going to be exactly the right length for

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her, you know, body, um, body makeup.

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Um, and, and that's how she had.

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So, my, I don't know for sure, but I think being a specialist in immunization,

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um, clinic, they want to get it exactly in the right spot so that you don't

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get adverse sort of reactions and that.

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So, I don't think that's necessary for the average, um, Um, Doctor or

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Pharmacist to do, because you've got a pretty big area there to aim,

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so it doesn't cause any problems.

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After that, next week I actually had my booster, you know, so I didn't go to the

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pharmacist, I decided against Moderna, I'd go for the Pfizer, where I was

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already booked in, so I went for that, and I waited until I'd had my vaccination

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and then my booster and I said, I said, look, what do you think about this?

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And she started laughing when I showed her where the, where the We're the um,

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you know, the band aid picture and all that and she said, I'm laughing because

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if I wasn't laughing I'd be crying.

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And, and then when I got home, I got out, I, I, I got into the front

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of the mirror and thought, where, you know, where has she gone?

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Because I had a tiny little band aid on and one of those spotlights.

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And it was, it was within two millimetres of the exact centre, so.

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When you've done enough of them, you can just eyeball it and go bang and get

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it in, so, um I'm surprised that you didn't, before going, market yourself

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with a pen as to I was going to, but I, I, I, I'm sort of thinking, this

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is a big insult, really, isn't it?

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So, I just trusted that going to a doctor was going to be better, but

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Having said that, you know, I probably just, it was a complete fluke to come

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across this situation and probably every, let me say, every other pharmacist in

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Australia is doing the right thing.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, there you go, dear listener.

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When you're going for your jab, um, look at the, um, it'll be on the website,

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it'll be in the show notes, it'll probably be the picture we use for this episode,

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um, a picture of where it should go.

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Can I just say one other thing?

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So, once you invited me on, Trevor, I thought, gee, I'd better do a little

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bit more research and make sure I'm on solid ground here, and I am.

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But I came across There's a, there's a, um, website which, and it's done by

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Melbourne's, Melbourne Vaccination um, Education Centre, and they say how to do

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vaccines, and, and it's not quite right.

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You know, I mean, it's, I'm going, hang on, their picture, you know,

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they've got this picture and it doesn't quite add up to the, you know,

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what they're saying in the words.

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So, so.

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I've got some sympathy for the, uh, the pharmacist, because maybe he was

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looking at that and, and he's gone online, he's possibly gone online and

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just looked at things and, and made his own decision, I don't know, does

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the Pharmacy Guild, maybe there's a pharmacist, pharmacist listening to this

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right now, do they give, um, education, instruction, they should do, but, uh,

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It's very easy, you know, with Mr.

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Google to sort of get on the wrong track, well, yeah.

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I think I read somewhere in the UK with the NHS that they avoided

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long queues because they asked for volunteers, for people to come and

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be trained in how to give injections.

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And so A lot of the significant number of injections were done by people

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who had no other medical training other than how to get an injection.

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And they would be potentially Mum said it was a bunch of middle aged, um,

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retire oh sorry, middle class retirees.

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Who were all having a wonderful time.

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She said it was wonderfully efficient and she was in and out.

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They didn't even hold her for 15 minutes.

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It was in, get your vaccine and then you're out again.

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Yep.

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And I can imagine somebody like that could actually be even better than

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a fully trained, you know, nurse or medical professional because With

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the right attitude, they just do what they're told without any preconceived

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ideas that they know better.

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So, I think I mentioned before in the podcast, Deep Throat, about

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they, um, they surveyed people in a hospital, uh, how to do CPR correctly.

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And there was, like, the registrar, the nurse, there was the cardiac surgeon,

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there was the, the ward psychologist, and a whole range of people who were

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Who were basically given material on how to do it correctly and then

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were tested on how well they did.

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And the person who performed best was the psychologist, because they,

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the psychologists would just do what they were told according to the

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instructions and follow it to the letter.

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Whereas the other people thought, oh, I've heard all this before, I remember

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back in uni days we were told to do this or do that and had these preconceived

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ideas that affected their performance.

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Which I don't say.

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An untrained person, uh, who just, with the right attitude,

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may be the best person?

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Oh, I think there's a lot to be said for that, and also for pharmacists

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and, you know, doctors and nurses.

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This is a small part of their day, in a sense, you know, doing this sort of thing.

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They're more focused on other things, so I think you're right.

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Um, just going back to that vaccination service that I was involved with and

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effectively running, um, We, we, we trained up health workers, which was

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based on the barefoot doctor model.

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And so what you were saying was correct.

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We just said, these are the things that we want you to do.

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The rest of it, you make sure you get them to a doctor or a nurse.

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But in your, it was with refugees, in your refugee settlements, um,

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this is what we want you to do.

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And, um, and I think you're right.

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I think, you know, they were just focused on this.

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This is all they had to do.

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Make sure kids got their vaccinations.

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You know, and doing, you know, and chronic diseases, making sure they've

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got their medications and that.

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And I think you're right.

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I think they did a really good job and stayed within that focus.

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And for them, that was the biggest part of their work, not

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a little part of their work.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Just one other thing.

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You mentioned earlier about the size of the needle.

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Would that mean that somebody who's particularly large, either muscular

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or just fat, should have a longer needle than somebody who's skinny?

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Well, absolutely, and if you go on, you know, various websites like the CDC

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and, and probably the Australian one, so I just can't remember where they

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are, they actually give a, um, there's a guidelines in terms of tables of what

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size needle you should, you should give.

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So if you've got a, like a neonate, you know, a newborn baby, you know,

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would be using a great needle.

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You know, big needles and that, and uh, and, and, and interesting when you think

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about things like that because neonate, you use a fairly, um, you know, not, not

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very long needle, but then when you get to the toddlers and that, they're actually

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quite chubby, so you've got to use quite a thick needle, and then when you get

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to the kids that are running around, you know, they, they become thin again, and

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you've got to use a thinner needle again.

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But if you get a really big, beefy guy, you know, you've

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got to use a bigger needle.

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So there are guidelines in the size of the needle, too, you know.

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Right.

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I've never paid any attention as to whether they sized me up and

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went, you're obviously a number six or a number ten or something.

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In your case, Trevor, I don't think it was the length of the needle,

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I think it was the thick one.

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They said, here's the biggest, thickest one we've got and let's

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do three of them at the same time.

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Well, funnily enough, I'm one of these people who faints when I get

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a needle, like just uncontrollably.

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So, whenever I get a needle, I always lie down.

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And so, even at these places with the vaccination centres.

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Uh, where everybody else is sitting in these long corridors of banks of people,

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I'd said, Show me where the bed is, cause I'm gonna lie down when you do this.

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So, um, yeah, so For something like that, it's not the time to be embarrassed.

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Because if you fall over and crack your head open, you know, you're in a bigger

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Spot a bobber, so it's not, yeah, just call your bride and tell them, look,

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I've got a problem, and they won't even think second, they won't even worry

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about, you know, it's part of their job.

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Yeah, no, they're very, they're very encouraging.

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Whenever I say that, um, for any needle, they say, oh, glad you told me, of

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course, lie down here, like they're Yeah, because you're right, they don't

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want you fainting, so yeah, and it's much more comfortable to lie down, so.

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Right, well Joe O'Shea, any questions for Deep Throat before we sign

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him out to his next appearance?

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No, it's Yeah, yeah, same.

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Likewise, likewise.

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So all the best there, you know, for 2022.

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All right, Deep Throat.

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Keep up the good work.

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All right, we'll have you on more often.

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Good luck.

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See you, Deep Throat.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Oh, there you go.

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The crackly voice, all back around to Deep Throat there.

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Mm hmm.

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There we go.

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Interesting.

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I love the fact that he took a photograph and then went back the next day and spoke

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to the pharmacist and said, pharmacist and said, Oh, this might not be right.

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How good's that?

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That's so good.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Okay, you're still in the chat room.

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You reckon Novak should stay or go?

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Let us know.

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Um, Watley the Wizard says, All hail Deep Throat.

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I agree.

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And, uh, um, David says, I had my booster on Saturday.

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I think the nurse got a bullseye.

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Good.

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All right, um,

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there was this fake tweet.

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There's, there's lots of fake Scott Morrison Twitter accounts.

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And this, this fake one said, um, when I bump into everyday

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Australians at the shops, the one thing I always hear is, when are we

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going to buy more heavy artillery?

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And today, that's what we've done.

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3.

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5 billion dollars worth of new tanks.

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Words fail me on these guys.

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Well, the only thing you can say is tanks for that.

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You could say that, Joe, you could.

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Tanks.

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You know, the last time we used a tank, I've got it here in an article

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I read, um, We haven't deployed a tank in combat since the Vietnam War.

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Like, the whole anti China rhetoric is, we're talking ships, we're talking

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missiles, we're talking planes.

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We're not talking tanks.

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Well, when we have to defend the Brisbane line.

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This is just toys for bullies, keeping the colonels and the generals happy.

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Um, so from the Americans, we've agreed to purchase 120 tanks, um, and 3.

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5 billion worth.

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Um, uh, the tanks will replace 59 Abrams MIA 1s.

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Which were bought in 2007, but have not seen combat.

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It's 15 years, they're old.

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Yeah, and the fact that they haven't seen combat?

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It's a deterrent, you know, that's just to prove that they worked.

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Yes.

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That's right.

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Chief of Army Lieutenant General Rick Burr said tanks and combat engineering vehicles

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were essential to Australia's ability to contribute to combat that could be

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integrated with forces of other countries.

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Because of their versatility, tanks can be used in a wide range

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of scenarios, environments and levels of conflict, he said.

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Honestly.

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And, in the same week, a few days later, M1A1.

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Thank you, Craig Peat.

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Um, Craig, what's your opinion on the tanks?

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Is that a good idea or not?

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I think Craig may have some expertise in matters of this type.

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Um, In the same week, Dutton said, uh, he urged celebrities and athletes

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to use their star status to draw attention to China's treatment of women.

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Warning that Beijing is escaping scrutiny despite the plight of

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Chinese tennis player, Peng Shui.

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Not that the government has got any problem with women and the treatment

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of women, but he's telling celebrities.

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Or even the treatment of tennis players.

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Yes.

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Or Yes indeed.

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Yes,

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Yep.

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What has this government got to do?

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Like, I know what I read.

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I mean, I do read NewsCorp stuff and I do read Fairfax stuff, and I

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can, this, can these guys get away with it with this sort of nonsense?

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Continually Can they?

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It it, it'll just be so interesting to see.

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So, um, John Lord wrote.

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I find it impossible to imagine that the Australian people could be so

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gullible as to elect for a fourth term a government that has performed so

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miserably in the previous three, and has amongst its members some of the

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most devious, suspicious and corrupt men and women, that they just might.

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Well, you know what Labor's like.

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They're always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Even they couldn't, surely, in this case.

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Surely.

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Um.

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Sad day paper, editorial, Scott Morrison's smile is like a measuring

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tape, it lengthens as he decides what it is he can get away with.

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The calibration is sometimes off, but this does not affect his confidence.

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Before he speaks, he sucks air hard through his nose.

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One last assessment, as if to smell the credulity of the room.

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Some people are good writers, that's good writing there.

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So I'm hanging my hat on my hopes on, yeah, the Batuta, the Chaser, the Shovel,

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every comedian in Australia, um, lots of people just, there is no shortage

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of, of things to poke fun at with these groups, so, with this government, so

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I'm just hanging my hat on people.

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Reading that stuff along the way and getting the idea.

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So, like, just to give you an example, some of the great headlines from,

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for example, the Batuta Advocate.

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So just going by the headline of some of their articles, um, Sleep Deprived

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Nurse Relieved To Hear Future Is Now In Safe Hands With 75 Diesel Powered Tanks.

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Um, Scotty Spent 3.

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5 Billion On Tanks To Distract From How He Treated Novact.

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To distract from rat shortage.

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Uh, Desperate Scotty informs media that Yokovich just threw children

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overboard from Quarantine Hotel.

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Future lockdowns all but confirmed after PM declares they'll never happen again.

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That sort of stuff you would hope would cut through.

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Let's, let's hope so.

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Yeah.

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I doubt it because the people, they're preaching to the choir.

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The people who believe it are the people who are going to be reading that.

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And the people who don't believe it won't read it.

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Yeah.

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But surely the older crowd who vote Conservative are dying off in the

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last three years and the younger ones have come in who couldn't vote in

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the last three years, the 16 and 17 year olds from the previous election.

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Hopefully it'll change.

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Now, you saw the, the tests for COVID, like people waiting five, six, eight.

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10 hours for a test?

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I looked at it and thought, are you crazy?

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Did you look at that and think, this is madness?

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What are you doing?

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Or did you think, good lord abiding citizen?

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No, I thought they were crazy.

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I went and got a test on the 30th of December And it was, oh my god,

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the queues are gonna be ridiculous.

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Mm hmm.

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And they had Three parallel queues going, and we were done in 15 minutes.

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I was impressed.

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If you'd arrived and they said, join the queue, it'll be three or

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four hours, would you have stayed?

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Probably not.

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Shay, did you think it was amazing that people would line up for those hours?

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For a test?

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I think, I think maybe they didn't know there might be other places, or

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I think they, I think they were just probably desperate, found, found their

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need to travel or their need to find out their test results urgently and

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just weren't thinking, like, um, Like, I can imagine if you had an overseas

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flight and you needed it, you had to, or even, but there couldn't have been that

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many people who needed it for a flight.

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I just, it just amazed me.

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People do just join queues.

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That's another funny thing about working in an airport.

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They'll queue up at check in places where there's obviously no people.

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They'll, yeah, I don't know.

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People, people, people will queue.

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But I had a similar experience.

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I went to get a test on the 29th just near my house.

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Drive through, 15 minutes.

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Right.

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So, I'm surprised people aren't Googling other places.

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But, I'm not that surprised.

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Right.

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Yes.

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They do the right thing.

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So they just get in the queue.

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And a lot of the news was saying, like, doesn't matter where you go,

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you're going to be queuing for hours, you're going to be waiting a long time.

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So it's been like, oh well, just pick one.

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I just could not sit in a car for four or five hours.

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I mean, what did these people do when they needed to go to the toilet?

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What, did they all have a piss bottle in the car or something?

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Did they, like, what did they do?

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I just, I presume there's facilities there for the staff.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, um, so do you listen to just, uh, my My two daughters contracted COVID,

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they were living in Brisbane, I was on the Gold Coast at the time, so we'd been

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out, and, uh, two grandchildren got it, and so they had sort of just regular flu

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symptoms for a day, and over and done with pretty quickly, so that was good.

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Pretty sure my wife, um, she had classic flu symptoms, plus, Loss of

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smell and taste and given the lack of the flu, the normal flu in the

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community, pretty sure she had it and, but we couldn't buy a rat anywhere.

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Uh, tried as hard as we wanted but we, we Signed up to the pharmacy when

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we were down the Gold Coast who said, yep, you'll have one in two days time,

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but they kept delaying it, delaying it because of logistics problems.

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And in the end, they just gave up and said, sorry, we thought we'd be able

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to provide one, just can't do it.

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So, so we'll probably end, um, of course.

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My wife and I are sleeping in the same bed and sharing lots of the same area,

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and if she had it, it's hard to imagine I didn't get it, but I've had absolutely

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zero symptoms, nothing at all, not a skerrick of anything, which is entirely

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possible because I'm triple vaccinated, so, um, so yeah, so if I had to place

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a bet, I would say my wife Um, almost certainly got it, and then therefore

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I most certainly must have got it, and didn't even know, so, that's what's going

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on in this household, so, um, and, it's interesting, where you'll have a lot of

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people like us, who were not able to get access to rats, who will never really

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be sure if we actually had it or not.

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I find that bizarre.

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I've been listening to my English friends talking about LFTs for the last two years.

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Which are lateral flow tests, and they've been given away for free.

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I mean, to the point where friends in the UK were talking about posting some to me.

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Uh, and for some reason we've called them rats and we're

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not giving them away for free.

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It seems like they're coming out of everybody's ears in Europe.

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There's so many they don't know what to do with them.

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Yeah, um, Julia says they had to wait for around five hours.

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You do what you have to do, everyone pitches in.

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Like, Julia, I reckon if we were in COVID Zero, I would've, like, at that

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point where we were trying to keep a lid on it and aim for COVID Zero,

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I possibly would've then, um, but, gee, when the cat's out of the bag

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like it has obviously been, I just, I just didn't see the point in it.

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Um, but, good on these people for, And you for doing the right thing, but I

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just sort of think, wow, that's, that's a commitment, um, to me when it was like,

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the whole thing is just so prevalent and is, is now the cat's out of the

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bag, what sort of, what was the point?

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So, and Julia says, yeah, it may be different now.

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So Julia, if the same thing happened today, he, um, he

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wouldn't do it by the sounds of it.

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So, um.

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And, and, you know, it's very different when you're talking

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about getting a vaccine.

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Yep.

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Where the effects are going to be long term and long lasting.

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But as you, yeah, under the current circumstances, if you

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get a positive test, so what?

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Really, is it going to make any difference to your behaviour?

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No, that's right.

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You've just got to assume you've got it and act according to it.

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And, um, yeah.

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You know, what happened to that army guy who was trotted out by the Prime Minister

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and would appear standing beside him.

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as our logistics expert because everyone knows the Army's really good for

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helping you organize your logistics.

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Yeah, I haven't seen him for six to eight weeks, , and I reckon the

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next time I see him, it will be when Scotty throws him under a bus,

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when he blames him for, uh, the poor rollout.

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Okay, now.

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The whole kerfuffle then.

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Prior to, in the world prior to Novak Djokovic, we had the whole conundrum.

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Not only the lack of rats, but the cost.

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And people saying these things should be provided for free.

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And what did the government say?

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Well, Simon Birmingham said, one of our cabinet ministers, In partnership with the

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states, our government is providing COVID 19 tests free to those who need them.

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Typical of Labor, Albanese says they should be free everywhere without knowing

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what it would cost or considering the wasteful hoarding it would generate.

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Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

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And, um, that independent journalist, if you like, Michael, um, forget his name,

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but he can tell you how much it'll cost.

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He measured it up against the tanks, because it would cost 230 million.

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Right.

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Yet how many tests.

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Yep.

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Yeah, that left us a good bunch of money left over.

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Well, if you're buying them wholesale at cost, that couldn't

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be more than a dollar each.

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25 million Australians, 10 each, 250 million dollars.

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Like, it's Yeah, right, exactly.

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Duh!

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Yeah, what, one a week for 10 weeks?

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Typical of Labor.

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Albanese says these should be free everywhere.

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But you know what?

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Labor was slow on it.

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Like, Albany They've got a spurious plot!

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When they came out, when this was being argued, it took days.

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Albanese initially said, I think they should be affordable.

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But he did not say they should be free.

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You're aware of that show?

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You saw that and just thought, what the hell are you doing?

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And in the absence of him, I must say, the independents like Joe Dyer for

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Boothby and the ones in Sydney have been out in force on Twitter, doing

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a really good job of, um, cleverly phrasing their complaints, you know?

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So, another opportunity, by the way.

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Dire Straits in the chat room says, the reason we haven't seen that army

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dude is he was out shopping for tanks.

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That's a vehicle.

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Yep.

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And Alison, uh, with the 30 percent positive rates for PCR, PCR tests, uh,

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she wouldn't be caught dead in a queue.

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If you're trying to catch COVID, that's where you'd go, isn't it?

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Oh, I just find that extraordinary.

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And, you know, surely people can see that we gave 38 billion to businesses

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like Gerry Harvey who didn't need it.

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And we're not prepared just to give out tests, and people can see, well

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that's what happens in other countries.

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This is not extraordinary, so um.

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Ah, surely people won't forget, please.

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I know it's going to be five months away.

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No, I think the impact has been widely felt.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, as this guy said on Twitter, thank goodness the government was smart and

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didn't give out the free, the much more expensive vaccinations and PCR tests.

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It's true, like these things are so obvious that you just sort of The

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statement is just so weird and so left field that the obvious misses you.

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Like, a PCR test is free, a vaccination is free, why isn't a rat free?

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Like It's a slippery slope, we're out of trouble.

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Uh, okay, um, okay, what else have we got here, um, spending, uh, oh Joe,

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you've been battling freethinkers.

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What's that mean?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Um, so, historically, freethinking was, uh, really a, um, a secular movement.

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It was all about freedom from religious dogma, and was Interesting was

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possibly, um, more centrist, so not left leaning, not right leaning, but seems

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to have become very, very libertarian recently and seems to be a hotbed

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for conspiracy theories about COVID.

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QAnon and Stop the Steal was probably the first signs of it and has become

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very, very jump on the latest bandwagon.

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So if there's a anti vaxx conspiracy going around, I tend to see it there

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first and Um, they are dogmatically certain that their, their scientists,

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their cherry picked scientists know more than the thousands and thousands

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of scientists who work in the field.

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And you're wading into the comment, uh, forums and, and, and trying

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a few punches out there, Joe.

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Um, it, it's less around trying to change the minds of the people

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whose minds have been made up.

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It's not letting the bullshit go unchallenged.

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for, you know, there's a thousand people in there, there's ten regular commenters.

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Uh, it's for the nine hundred and ninety people who are sat reading, so that they

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don't see the bullshit go unchallenged.

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Uh, and I did get a comment back the other day which said, thank you, you

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know, if it hadn't been for people like you putting reasonable arguments back, I

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would have fallen down the rabbit hole.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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And that's good.

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Yeah.

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And, and, you know, um, it, it really is.

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Sometimes it feels frustrating just dealing with the same

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bullshit over and over.

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Um, but it is worthwhile not to change the minds of those people

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who are dogmatic, but for the silent majority who are listening.

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Well, I applaud you for your efforts, Joe, just as I applauded deep throat

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for, uh, visiting the pharmacist and telling him how to do the needle, getting

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off your butt and doing something.

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That's what it's about.

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Joe, you're going to get off your butt and do something with Qantas,

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but we can't talk about that probably.

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We have to work out my best argument.

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Hey, uh, in the chat room, we said earlier, if you're late to the chat

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room, um, know that Jogovich, should we kick him out or let him stay?

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Just let us know what your thought is there.

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Be just, I'm curious to see what the response is.

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So let me know your vote on that.

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I'd really like to get 100 comments on this episode, uh, we get a

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little indicator pops up if we do.

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We shouldn't be too far off it, I think.

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So, okay.

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Um, Spending has crashed, so there is a graph which, oh, this was put out

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by ANZ, Observed Spending, and I think that uses credit card information

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and other stuff, and essentially, um, after, um, in the last few

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weeks, retail spending has absolutely plummeted in Australia, so if you've

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got a small business relying on people buying stuff, It's been tough times.

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So, New South Wales, I think, is finding that, um, while they don't, well, they've

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relaxed the rules in terms of businesses operating, the businesses themselves are

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having to close because their staff are all sick and people aren't coming anyway.

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Like, our economy has really taken a hit.

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In the last few weeks, if you're involved in that side of the

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world, let me know in the comments.

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If you've got a small business that tries to sell stuff, you

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must have found things tough.

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Even people say, I've got friends, uh, Jewish community in Melbourne, uh, lots

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of their friends are medical specialists.

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And they're doing it tough, because all elective surgery has been cancelled,

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so, um, with everybody, even though you've got a high income, you invariably

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create expenses that more or less match your income, and when the tap's

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turned off, you're in trouble, and, um, they said something like at the

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Jewish school, um, that they go to.

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There was an extraordinary number of defaults on payment of, um, school fees

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that they hadn't seen ever before, um, I think she was quoting a quarter to a

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third but I'm not sure on that but, uh, yeah, so even in the top end, medical

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specialists, for example, struggling because can't do elective surgery.

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Can't get money.

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So, fuel in chat room says let him stay.

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Let me know your votes.

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Um, oh, what else have we got?

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Just examples of media bias.

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Um, I saw this one, which So this is two different papers on the same day.

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Uh, the Sydney Morning Herald.

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Um, well actually I'll start with Victor.

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Yeah, Sydney Morning Herald.

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On that day there were 22 and a half thousand new cases.

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And who's the SME churned by?

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Yes, Fairfax.

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Which, who's running Fairfax?

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And nine, Peter Costello.

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He's head of that now, isn't he?

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So, they've gone, yeah.

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So, on the day that 22, 500 new cases came out in New South Wales, the

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headline in the Sydney Morning Herald was, Hope bursts through COVID cloud

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as Sydney rings in the new year.

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Meanwhile, in Victoria, which had a third that number, it had 7, 700

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cases, the age, the headline was, New infection surge to an all time high

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as state hits 7, 442 COVID cases.

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These, these are the sort of everyday, um, media bias messages

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that come through that, uh, just subliminally work on people.

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Um.

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Oh, over the holidays, got a very nice donation from Dave S.

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Thank you Dave for that very generous donation, much appreciated.

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If you would like to donate to this podcast and help.

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Keep the lights on, head to the website, you'll see a link for donations, Patreon,

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where you can donate per episode, or if you don't like the idea of that,

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there's PayPal, so you can do either a one off or a regular donation through

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that, helps pay the costs, lets me know that you think it's worthwhile.

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Buy the rum.

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And it's, and helps pay for the rum, uh.

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So, mind you, at the rate we're going, we probably won't be all together

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in this room for quite a while.

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But, um, there's remote things we can find.

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So, um, alright.

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Other things that happened Just quickly, I was talking to my older

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sister today, and she, and she was just like, the obvious biggest problem

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Australia has right now is with it.

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And in parts of England, they did successfully boycott his papers.

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So, any ideas how the little people Can sort of banish or

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confront the Rupert problem.

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I reckon, I reckon people should in, lots of people don't buy it, like, nobody

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really buys newspapers anymore, but I reckon people should say at a cafe or

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something, what is that rag doing here?

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What are you, I'm going to stop buying your coffee if you're

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going to put that thing here.

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Um, yeah, maybe that's the way to go.

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Like, say to them, like, that's I see it at the checkout at Woollies, yeah.

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Should I be lobbying Woollies to take it away from the checkout?

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Clearly a waste of time.

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They're never going to listen to you.

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But maybe local cafes would.

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Yeah, maybe.

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I don't know.

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And is it really Rupert or is it James?

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Uh, is there a difference?

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Well, James is, James is a small Christian.

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That's the problem.

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I don't know, whichever one took over.

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Lachlan Lachlan.

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Lachlan took over.

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Okay.

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Is it Lachlan?

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Yeah.

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Lachlan took over and he's a mad Mm-Hmm.

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Christian.

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He actually believes it.

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Mm-Hmm.

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, you know, just, you know, Rupert's just doing a deal with the,

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with the evangelicals for power.

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So, so who was worse believes who was worse?

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The Maxwells or the, the Murdochs.

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Clearly Murdoch's, way more, far more powerful, far more pervasive, far more

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organised, like, you know when people talk about Trump As far as we know they

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weren't smuggling children to Yeah, but his worldwide influence is way

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worse than Maxwell's, so, when people talk about Trump they go, imagine if

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there was a guy like Trump, but, who was actually clever and organised.

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Well you don't have to imagine, it's just, Rupert Murdoch and he

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decided to do it via a media empire, because it was the most effective.

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Very weird.

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Okay, um, let me see.

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James is Packer's boy.

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Yeah, um, that's right.

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James is James Packer.

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Who's the other one?

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There's Lachlan and, who's the other one who sort of left the family

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amongst the Murdochs and is now really writing anti Murdoch stuff?

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Is he a James as well?

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I thought so, but maybe not.

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Yeah, um.

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Uh, let me see what we've got here in the comments.

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Uh, uh, Alison wrote a lot, but you didn't, um, you didn't say,

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Alison, whether you thought Novak should be kicked out or not.

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I'm interested to know what you think.

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Um, um, okay.

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What else have I got here?

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Um, Tony Blair was knighted.

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Sir Tony Blair.

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The guy who's the architect of the Iraq War, one of the main instigators of it,

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and we know that it was done for bullshit reasons, we know it killed millions

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of people, and he gets a knighthood.

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Um, one million Iraqis dead, three million dispossessed.

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From the, this is from the BBC.

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The ex Labour leader who was in power from 1997 to 2007 was given the title

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as the New Year's Honours were awarded.

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Uh, there's a petition that his role in the Iraq war makes him

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personally responsible for many deaths and accuses him of war crimes.

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Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, said, said that Tony

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Blair had earned a knighthood.

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And a government minister said it was only right to reward the former Prime Minister

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who had done many good things for the UK.

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Um, so he became an Order of the Garter, England's oldest and most

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senior order of chivalry, and it's the personal choice of the Queen, who has

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up to 24 knight and lady companions.

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Uh, current Prime Minister Boris Johnson not involved in the decision.

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Um, unlike the New Year's Honours List, which is drawn up by the

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government for the Queen's approval, the Order of the Garter is bestowed

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as a personal gift by the Queen.

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And um, um, I thought it was a fairly usual payoff for former Prime ministers.

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Anyway.

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It was Bar Stacher.

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Yeah.

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Wasn't John Major a knighted?

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Yep.

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Indeed.

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But when you've started a war like that, Iraq war, at what

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point, what disqualifies you?

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Aucklands, yes.

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Well, indeed, yes.

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Didn't kill as many people.

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No.

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Didn't dispossess as many people.

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The scale was smaller, honestly.

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And, uh.

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So he created the war, and he gets a knighthood.

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Julian Assange exposes the war crimes, facing lifetime in prison.

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Just wait till Boris gets knighted.

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And

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so that's the Queen's personal choice.

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And did you hear that, um, LNP's state, uh, member, Jared Blaise, um, he wants a

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new statue for the Queen, um, commissioned to celebrate her 70th year on the throne.

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With all the shit going on in the world, that's what Jared's wanting to do.

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It's important.

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Yep.

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We've just named some island in Canberra after her as well.

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We've named the state after her.

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He's a devoted monarch.

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He's also called on the Palaszczuk government to look at naming a public

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monument after Elizabeth II as well.

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So that's what keep, that's what keeping Jared Alight awake at night.

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Now Alison has given her a strong opinion.

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She's declared him a fuckwit.

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Yes.

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He's the one who actually He was on TV bemoaning the work

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of the Noosa Temple of Satan.

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And, uh, taking it all very seriously is a terrible thing.

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And, uh, in the background, one of his fellow MPs was sort of giggling.

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And, um, and that was the one that we found out through freedom of,

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the right to information request.

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Somebody internally was writing to somebody else internally saying, don't

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these God botherers ever get sick of doing this, or something like that.

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So, that's Jared Blayge for you.

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Um How are we going for time?

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9.

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03, um, you guys got anything you want to get off your chest before

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I think about winding this one up?

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Have you guys got anything desperate to get off your chest?

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Um, I was just thinking about the right thing.

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I don't know about kicking him out or letting him stay being the right thing.

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One right thing I'd like to see is less discretion for

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ministers around this stuff.

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Write a clear policy, get it passed through parliament.

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It was purposefully designed as all powerful, without any checks and balances.

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Yeah.

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Especially if you have a friend who's got an au pair that needs a visa.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Limit those types of discretionary powers.

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Or write a policy that has a clear mandate about when they can be applied.

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That's the right thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, okay.

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Um Oh, actually, there was one other thing I did want to mention,

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um, there was a business which, now you've heard of employees being

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sacked for not being vaccinated.

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Oh, yeah, the Church of Ubuntu.

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The Church of Ubuntu sacked an employee because she was vaccinated.

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Yeah, well, let's put it this way there.

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Grasp on, um, science is Fairly limited.

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They're heavily into the alternative medicine.

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Sorry, so called alternative medicine, which gets abbreviated to SCAM.

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So this woman was working for the church, which runs a wellness clinic, that

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sells medicinal hemp products, and she was a client consultant for 12 months,

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but she was dismissed after her boss found out she had received the jab.

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A letter from the church's vice president praised her work and said

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getting a vaccination was inconsistent with its religious teachings.

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It's, uh, in their words, conscientiously and deliberately

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with intent is in contradiction with our constitution and contrary

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to our position on what is required of us by our Lord God and Creator.

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And, no doubt, this is a genuinely held religious belief

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and therefore Religious freedom.

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Religious freedom.

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And it doesn't really matter whether it's complete nonsense, it's just,

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is that a genuinely held belief?

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In which case, sack her.

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So, as this article says, The debate about the proposed religious discrimination

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bill often neglects to acknowledge religious institutions are already

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permitted to make discriminatory hiring and firing decisions so long as they are

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motivated, by their religious beliefs.

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Um, that's according to Jolene Reilly Munton, a professor in the Faculty of Law

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at the University of Technology, Sydney.

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Um, she said religions did not have to prove their reasons are valid according

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to some measure of objective rationality.

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They just have to establish that they took their decision in good faith to avoid

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injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherence of that religion or creed.

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There you go.

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So, Alison has gone off again in the chat room.

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You're feisty tonight, Alison.

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Oh dear.

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So yeah, there we go.

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As long as it's your religious belief.

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Oh sorry, it's your belief on religion.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Sack people.

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Incredible.

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This is where we're at in Australia.

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Other countries would be appalled.

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Apparently the ABC.

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Uh, each year broadcasts Christmas messages from religious groups, and this

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year, just gone, they broadcast the one from, uh, Brian Houston of Hillsong, as

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part of a Christmas message on the ABC.

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For fuck's sake.

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Can you not, as an editorial decision, just say, we are

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not going to help this group?

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Totally could.

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Well Um, they did allow John Dixon to pen some article about why Jesus was real.

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Right, yes.

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Why you've seen people believe that Jesus is real.

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And that was on ABC, yeah.

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That was on ABC too.

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Yeah.

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Um, actually, got an interesting statistic my son came across.

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Here's a good argument.

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When we talk about how many people are religious, and we look at the census

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where people Declare whether they have a religious affiliation or not.

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I reckon this is a good test.

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Whether you choose a civil celebrant for your marriage or a religious celebrant.

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Like, that's really part of whether you're a practicing, believing, religious person.

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I mean, if you truly believe in a religion and are a follower, you would not be

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getting married by a civil celebrant.

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And, um, The 2020 figures are out from the Australian Bureau

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of Statistics, and 80 percent of Australians chose a civil celebrant.

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That's a big proportion, I think, yep, so, um, um, so yeah, I've got the statistics

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there, and when we're really talking about genuine religious belief, surely.

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If you are getting married, you would have a religious celebrant

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if you're a true believer.

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It was interesting to see 20 years ago how high it was.

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Um, yeah.

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It was 75 percent religious, I think.

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Um, let me see.

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I'll pull that up on the screen.

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Let me see here.

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So Oh no, 50%.

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I hope you got it there.

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Let me see.

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2000 was 50 percent civil celebrants.

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Yep.

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52.

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8.

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And 2010, 69.

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2020, 80%.

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Now, I wouldn't mind doing, uh, satanic religious ceremonies

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down the track in my retirement.

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That could be fun, I reckon.

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There could be some really cool people who would want that.

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So, that's on the agenda.

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It's very, very difficult to get registered as a Because you have to have

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a full course that's deemed the equivalent of The Civil Registrant, um, course.

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How hard is that thing?

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I think that's a two week course.

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Right.

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As I said, in retirement, it can't be that hard.

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It's a lot easier to do what the Pastavarians are doing and

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become civil celebrant, who do a religious themed ceremony.

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Right.

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Um, what else have we got here?

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I think that is the main ones to get through.

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It's 9.

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10, we've gone for an hour and 40 minutes.

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We've kept Shea out of the Shark Tank yet again.

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Uh, let me get rid of that screen.

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She's not Shea the Subversive, she's Shark Tank Shea, isn't she?

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Yeah, well, either one.

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Steel Wolf has posted a joke twice.

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Shall we hear it?

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Yeah, what was it?

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Why don't ants get COVID?

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Why?

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Antibodies.

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Laugh on.

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Very good.

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Okay.

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Well, good on you in the chat room.

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You've been going off in there and, um, uh, that's good to see.

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Uh, we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.

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I don't know what I'm going to do next week.

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Um, I might even speak to the Velvet Glove.

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I haven't mentioned it to him.

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But we'll see what we've got organized.

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Um, uh, I read this book, which I was sure I was going to end

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up doing a book review on.

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And.

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I actually wasted a fair number of days in the holidays.

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You know when you get a book and you think, Oh, I'm

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starting to, it's hard work.

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I really persevered with it.

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And it was a book that was really talking about, this is progression in human

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evolution that says, we were hunter gatherers and we were egalitarian.

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Then when we discovered agriculture and we formed cities, we then had

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hierarchies which led to inequality.

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And it was just a sort of a natural thing of, once we coalesced together,

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we had inequality and hierarchy.

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And the book was basically showing lots of examples, particularly in

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South America and North American Indian tribes, where they got quite

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large, were hunter gatherers, were not agrarian, but um, quite large cities,

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and they were quite egalitarian.

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Anyway, I persevered with it, and it was really hard work.

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I spent a lot of hours on it.

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And, and then Then I got to the footnotes, or the endnotes.

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Like, there was, there was like 40 pages of endnotes.

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I was working my way through those.

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It's crazy, I know.

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As I tell it, it's ridiculous.

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Anyway, I've, one of the footnotes was about, uh, referred to Bruce

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Pascoe and his book Dark Emu, and was glowing about, about it.

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And I was like, oh no!

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If you guys writing this book have taken Bruce Pascoe's word on all his stuff,

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Then I can't trust any of the stuff that you've said about any of these North

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American and South American tribes at all And I was like, oh just wasted so many

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hours I should have just abandoned it So I

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stopped reading and started doing watercolors then on my holidays

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Yeah, there you go, so there's a lesson for you if you're working

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if a book becomes just hard work give up early That's what you've

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done Alright, dear listener.

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Suncoast fallacy.

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Yeah, it was indeed.

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Yep, I fell for that one.

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Alright, dear listeners, in the chat room, thanks for your comments.

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I'll be back next week with something and we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.

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We'll talk to you then.

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Bye for now.

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Good night.

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That's a good night from him.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
News, political events, culture, ethics and the transformations taking place in our society.

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Colin J Ely $10
Keep up the good work