full

Episode 323 - The situation is hopeless, we must take the next step

In this episode we discuss:

  • No Vax Jock Evicted
  • Deep Throat on where to inject
  • When a jab is not a jab
  • Tanks! Fucking Tanks!
  • More from Dutton
  • An election year
  • The Saturday Paper Editorial
  • Bettoota, The Chaser and The Shovel
  • Rat Shortage
  • No Free Rats
  • Joe has been battling “free thinkers”
  • Spending has crashed
  • Stats
  • Media Bias
  • Patrons
  • Tony Blair was knighted.
  • A Statue for the Queen?
  • Church’ defends decision to terminate worker who got COVID jab
  • ABC broadcasted a Xmas Message from Hillsong
  • Religious but using a civil celebrant?

To financially support the Podcast you can make:

We Livestream every Monday night at 7:30 pm Brisbane time. Follow us on Facebook or YouTube. Watch us live and join the discussion in the chat room.

We have a website. www.ironfistvelvetglove.com.au

You can email us. The address is trevor@ironfistvelvetglove.com.au



Transcript
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Ah, dear listener, we're back.

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The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast.

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Back for another year, and it's already kicked off with some amazing

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stuff happening in the world of news and politics and sex and religion, so

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we're looking forward to a big year.

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If you're in the chat room, say hello.

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Some of you are already there, which is good.

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Uh, Watley, uh, Diastrates, Jack H is there, so good on you guys.

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If you're in the chat room, say hello, and You know, a little bit of a straw

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poll, uh, Novak Djokovic, should we kick him out or let him play?

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We'll be talking about it obviously, so let us know your thoughts, um,

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your vote either way and we'll see what you've got to say and maybe

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you'll, maybe your mind will change as we'll talk about things, so.

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I of course am Trevor, aka the Iron Fist, uh, with me when she's not

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flying around the world or Australia.

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Shay, the subversive, hello Shay.

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Good evening.

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And Joe the Tech Guy.

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Evening all.

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So we're back for another 2022.

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Joining us later, um, a special, uh, surprise for you will be Deep

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Throat, who's going to talk about, uh, vaccinations and where the

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needle should actually go in your arm and a few other things like that.

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He's sitting in the green room, um, looking like Santa Claus at the moment,

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and, uh, he's ready to go when we've finished about Novak Djokovic, and I

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can see him there, and, um, deep throat, if, if you're really keen to contribute,

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put your hand up, and we'll put you, we'll put you through, so, but, uh,

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anyway, yes, okay, 2022, we're kicking it off, and, um, hello David Cox, and

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hello Daniel in the chat room, Wow.

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Um, No Vax, Jock Evicted, uh, is what I've titled this episode.

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Um, Shea, is, is tennis something that you keep track of?

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Are you a sport, do you follow sport like that at all?

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No, not really.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I did watch Ash Barty at Wimbledon.

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Yep.

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But that would be the first time in years.

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Have you felt compelled to follow this whole drama, or have you just

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been like, Nah, couldn't care less.

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Like, what's it been on your scale of interest?

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It's, um, been hard to escape.

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Mm.

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Yeah, it's just been, it's been everywhere.

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Facebook, Twitter, the news, um, all my news podcasts.

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So, kind of do, it is interesting.

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Mm.

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There's not a lot of other things going on necessarily, so.

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Um, except we've bought 3.

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2 billion dollars worth of tanks and a few other things that we'll talk about.

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Oh, oh, okay.

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If you're in the chat room, uh, leave him in or throw him out.

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And, uh, David is in the, uh, throw him out camp.

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Let us know your votes as to what we should do with Novak Djokovic.

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So, um, really it's a bit of a conundrum here because, uh, as it

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was said in Crikey, I think it was in Crikey, an article I read which

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said that, uh, Australia is a country that defines itself by two things.

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Uh, we love our sport and we love talking, uh, taking down

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or chopping down tall poppies.

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So really the case is which one do we enjoy the most here?

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Do we want our sport or do we want to chop down a tall poppy?

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Um, really, Morrison's really boxed himself into quite a conundrum

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here in, and it's hard to see him escaping this without significant

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damage, so, you know, on the one hand though, this isn't unusual.

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I mean, every few years, Australia takes an international superstar

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hostage for unclear reasons and then we release them without explanation, and

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this is very popular with Australians.

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And if you're wondering what we're talking about, well the examples historically

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are, um, Johnny Depp and Amber's Dogs, Pistol and Boo, if you remember.

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We threatened to deport them.

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Ah, it will be interesting.

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Apparently there may be perjury charges on that one.

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Oh, really?

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On the, on the Pistol and Boo saga?

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In the divorce case, uh, there was further evidence came out that

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Amber Heard had perjured herself.

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Okay, so that was Barnaby Joyce, of course, who threatened to do that.

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Frank Sinatra, when he was in town many, many years ago, and he got in trouble for

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calling, uh, female journalists broads, or hookers, or something like that.

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And so, basically, Bob Hawke got the, uh, transport industry Basically refused to

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fly him and he was holed up in a hotel room until he apologised and worked out

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a settlement and was allowed to move around the country and eventually leave.

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So, we have held an international superstar hostage before.

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Um, other examples, um, The Who.

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The band The Who toured Australia 1968 flanked by Two Small

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Faces, which was another band.

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And, uh, they're playing lots of gigs and But the tour was cut short after an

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incident on an Ansett flight from Adelaide to Essenton that seemed remarkable

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for its mildness more than anything.

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En route to Melbourne, a bottle of beer was produced, and

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off colour language was used.

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Before long, Prime Minister John Gordon had sent a telegram to the band, insisting

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that they leave Australia never to return.

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We've got form on this.

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And Joe Cocker was expelled in 1970 for drug possession.

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And that's why drug abuse is completely unknown in this country.

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What a farce, what a fiasco, what an incompetent bunch of numbnuts we've got

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in charge of this country who can't even stop a tennis player from coming in,

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who they knew was a rabid anti vaxxer.

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They couldn't have written to him, flagged it, worked it out with the

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tennis officials beforehand, a dire warning saying we're not letting him in.

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It's just Management 101, if, of course this is going to blow up, but if you're

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too busy putting on fluoro vests and attending the cricket and other, and

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holding up a fish that you've just cooked for a curry dish, and, and if you're

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just into these sorts of things, you're not doing the real work of government.

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And if your staff is just full of people who are doing your tweets and your social

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media posts and they're not thinkers.

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Then, and then, if you just are looking for a knee jerk, if you knee jerk react

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to everything and you're looking for what you think might be a good distraction

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from the moment, so when rats are unavailable or expensive in the systems.

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You know, catastrophe, and you think, oh, here's a diversion,

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we'll talk tough on Novak Jokovic, and then you get caught out.

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If you're just lazy and grossly incompetent and are not able to

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just sort of see things through, this is where you end up.

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And ah, here's the thing though, dear listener, I just got a message from a

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close right wing friend of mine, and he was like, ah, fuck ups, they all do it.

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Look at, look at Labour with the, with the um In summation, Bats, that killed four

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people and it was a complete catastrophe, they all do it, they're all the same.

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Like, for some people you will never change them, you'll, no matter how

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grossly incompetent this bunch is, there are some people you'll never change.

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Sorry, how many deaths are we going so far?

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I mean, nowhere near the rest of the world, but Yeah, uh, actually, I looked

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it up, actually, and it is, um 2, 416 in Australia, since the beginning, yeah.

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But for some people, you just, no amount of Four deaths is absolutely

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unbelievable, shouldn't be allowed, and then two and a half thousand,

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oh well, you know, they all fuck up.

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Exactly.

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Some people you'll never convince about just what a bunch of hopeless,

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corrupt, fucking wankers these guys are.

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But hopefully enough of the younger generation.

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are seeing something about this and are recognising what have we

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got ourselves into with this crowd.

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You would think, Shay, do you hold out hope that this, people will

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remember this or will they forget?

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I'm worried they're going to forget.

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Like, this is only January.

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I really don't think the young people are the problem.

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He is speaking to the boomers.

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This has got boomers, populists all over it.

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Young people don't traditionally vote for the Liberal National Party.

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They will see this as a stunt.

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And I think they're hoping, they're hoping, certainly I am, that like,

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he's been, he's, Novak Djokovic has basically held Scott Morrison to account.

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He had a little bit of power, he used the power, good.

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I would actually, my contempt for Scott Morrison has gotten so big

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that I would stand shoulder to shoulder with Novak right now.

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Right.

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And fucking let him play.

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The more humiliation we can bring to Scott Morrison, the happier I am.

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Seriously, it's a disgrace.

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It's really, really impactful.

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The lack of, um It's negligence, not just incompetence.

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Maybe it'd be more embarrassing for him though, if he does Actually, put him on

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a plane and send him out of the country.

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The world media will come crashing down on him at that point.

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It could be worse.

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Like, what is the best option here?

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Do Australians really care what the world thinks?

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Apparently not.

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He should, you know, um, unfortunately, his win is going to be seen as

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a validation of all the ND Vax's points ever, uh, and it's just

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going to give them more bravado in ignoring and flatting our laws.

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And, and so, I think We wear it.

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We say Australia is a sovereign nation.

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So what if you think you had permission from Tennis Australia?

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Tennis Australia is not the, um, immigration service.

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Correct.

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We'll get on to the details soon.

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We'll just have a little bit of a rant and get out some frustration from three

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or four weeks of watching this shit show.

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It looks like in the chat room you guys are a bit the same.

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Like you've launched off with an amazing amount of comments here.

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So, uh, David was in the throw him out camp, uh, Steel Wolf says

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agreed throw him out, um, uh, Steel Wolf, Steel Wolf asks, is it some

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sort of tag and release program?

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You kiss him as you throw him back into the water.

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Um, uh, let me see, uh, Craig B says can't believe he's still here, and

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Daniel says we're a sovereign nation, we can turn away whom we please,

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but I agree it's beyond a farce.

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Celebrity and sports people are a law unto themselves, so, okay.

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So if you just joined the chat room, let us know, um, your opinion, uh,

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should he stay or should he go?

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What should happen to Novak?

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Now, if he stays there will be trouble?

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If he goes there'll be trouble.

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It's a no win situation now for Morrison.

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Who declared, by the way, this is when, um, he declared, Mr

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Jokowicz's visa has been cancelled.

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Rules are rules, especially when it comes to our borders.

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No one is above these rules.

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Our strong border policies have been critical to Australia

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having one of the lowest death rates in the world from COVID.

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We are continuing to be vigilant.

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Ordinarily you'd say, it's impossible to make that statement and not pull

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the trigger on the special powers that the Immigration Minister has.

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For fear of appearing to be a massive hypocrite.

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But of being, the fear of being a massive hypocrite.

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This doesn't rate with these guys, does it?

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So, um, uh, okay, um, right, so in the beginning of this whole saga,

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there was a lot of talk about what did Tennis Australia say to Novak?

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What assurances did they give?

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And At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they said.

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I could have been completely fraudulent about what advice they were giving him.

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It's not Tennis Australia's, um, role to decide what the rules are.

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So the rules are there in place, and if Tennis Australia mucked them up

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or didn't muck them up, really bears nothing in relation to what happens

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to Jokovic, other than maybe he could sue Tennis Australia for damages.

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Or misleading him, if that's what they did.

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So, but it has absolutely no bearing on the actual outcome of his entitlement to a

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visa as to what Tennis Australia told him, uh, if, if it was contrary to the rules.

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So, um, I saw a tweet from somebody that said, um, Read the fine print.

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Did Tennis Australia tell him that federal border restrictions

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were a different process?

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Anyone should work that out.

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Just because I've got a ticket to Disneyland doesn't mean I've

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got a visa to enter America.

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That's a good analogy, actually.

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They had rules in relation to competing in their tennis tournament,

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and Victoria had rules in relation to quarantining in Victoria.

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But that's all quite separate to whatever the rules are that the

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Federal Government has in relation to allowing people into the country.

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And as much as Morrison will try and deflect and blame Dictator Dan for this,

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surely everybody recognises that it's the Federal Government's role as to who

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comes into the country or not on a visa.

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Surely.

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They did their best in the early days to try and Distract and blame Dan and blame

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Tennis Australia, but I think everybody's pretty much worked that out, surely.

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Well, Border Files are a federal force.

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Border Files are a federal force, aren't they?

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Yeah, indeed.

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I'm a little bit worried that the judge in the case didn't actually work that out.

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We'll get to that.

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Well, I was going to say, he just said, uh, you didn't give him due process.

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Well, but he said more than that.

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He said, what more could this man have done?

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The answer was Got vaccinated?

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Indeed.

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It's not difficult.

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Stayed at home if you didn't meet the visa entry requirements.

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Something like 90 percent of all Australian adults have managed it.

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Yeah.

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So, um, so what have we got here is, um, in the court case, essentially,

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dear listener, this is about procedure, and was the correct procedure followed

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when Border Force rejected him?

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And And the case that Jokowicz won was not, was not on the substantive argument

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of whether he was validly entitled to a visa and had met the requirements.

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The argument he'd won was that the border officials Border force

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officials did not use the appropriate procedure when kicking him out.

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And that's a totally different thing to the substantive issue.

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So, so it's really, because what they did was, um, uh, they made procedure,

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in the end they decided that there were procedural errors and In the

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small hours of Thursday morning, officials promised Jokovic until 8.

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30am to seek advice about the proposed cancellation.

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They reneged on that, abruptly cancelling his visa at 7.

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42am.

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One official wanted the matter resolved before their shift ended.

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That's where they made their mistake.

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They said one thing and they did another.

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They made a procedural error.

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So, there was no decision made about the Act and whether he had complied with it

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in terms of the requirements for a visa.

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So, what happens with, uh, this sort of judicial administrative review is the

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court doesn't substitute a judgement and doesn't say, are the decision maker,

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um, should, I hereby order the decision maker should have done this, X, Y, Z.

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The judge simply says, the process was wrong and the decision arrived

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at at that process is quashed, now go back and do it all again.

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Like go back and, and reprocess it again and this time don't make the same mistake.

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That's, that's what happens in these judicial review cases.

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So, um, By way of explanation with our Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons

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that is currently before the Supreme Court in Queensland, and we're still

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waiting on a judgement five months later.

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Presumably we've got some merit in this case.

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I'm starting to get excited about it.

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There were two parts to it.

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It was basically, we applied to run Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons and

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we filled in the form and we submitted it.

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And the, uh, in my view, the decision makers who rejected us, did so because

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they relied on reasons that we had had no opportunity to object to.

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They just said, you're rejected because of X, Y, Z, and we

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meant, what do you mean X, Y, Z?

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Like, nobody ever asked us about that.

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You, you never came to us and asked us about those things, so

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your rejection of us was invalid.

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So, we've got a really, really strong case to have the procedural letter.

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thrown out and for the whole case to go back to the Department

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of Education who will then be asked to make the decision again.

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And, and, and our case is a little bit different because we also then sought

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an order, a declaration as to our validity as a religious organisation.

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But the reason why we sought that declaration is because Just getting a, for

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us, just winning on administrative review isn't good enough because it just sends

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it back to the original decision maker who can still just screw you over again.

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So, so that's what's really happened in this case where the judge has said

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procedurally Border Force mucked it up.

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The decision's no good and now it's open to Border Force to make the same decision

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again but this time do it properly.

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Or it's also open to, um, one of the Ministers for Immigration to use some

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extraordinary powers that they've got and just kick him out anyway, so, so,

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so it's basically all about procedure and the fact that they'd, uh, mucked up

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the procedures, which is extraordinary because apparently while all this was

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happening, like, imagine you're in Border Force and you're going to be

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kicking Jokovic out of the country.

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You reckon you're not ringing some pretty high up people and

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saying you want me to do what?

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What do I say next?

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At four in the morning.

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Yep.

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He's asked for a delay until 8.

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30.

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I told him yes.

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Okay, but you're telling me now I don't have to?

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Okay, like all of this would have come from very very high up It's

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not just some poor Border Force employee With his Gestapo black

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outfit acting on his own here.

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Like he's clearly Talking to his superiors.

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They were on the phone to Dutton.

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Yeah, and to muck it up procedurally, despite all that, shows that

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there weren't many lawyers in the room, by the sounds of it.

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So, um, so yeah, so that's where we're at, is that, um, despite what the

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judge said, it was all about procedure.

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It's entirely open to the government to actually look at the rules and say,

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you did not meet the requirements.

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Here is a fresh decision, where we have complied with all the

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things, procedures we need to comply with, and you're out, mate.

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The other one is that there's just this extraordinary power, because,

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because we in Australia have, have a, um, a particular expertise in not

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allowing people into the country, the act in question has these amazingly

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broad and incredible powers for the relevant minister, just to say, I don't

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feel like letting you in, out you go.

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Without any review.

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So, they've definitely got the power to do it if they want to, you know.

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Politically though, now, is the question.

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They're just, it's, it's now about how to, what's the best decision

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in terms of the next election?

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There's nothing in this about, oh, what's in Australia's best interest

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in terms of vaccination and keeping people safe and examples for the future.

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It's all about, bloody hell, what do we do now so we can win the next election?

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I don't know which one's the best option, but, I don't know.

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Good luck.

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Yeah.

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So, that's what we've arrived at.

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Um.

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Yeah, I mean, there were some comments about, um, effectively, you have to

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be vaccinated to enter Australia, unless you have a medical exemption,

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and the medical exemption is only a temporary reprieve, because you've

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been unable to get vaccinated.

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So you either cannot be vaccinated or for some reason you were a little more

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unable to, in which case you've got six months to do it because you've been ill.

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But that's not a, uh, a free pass.

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It, it's not a, yeah, because when it comes back next year

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and we still demand vaccination, is he gonna catch covid again?

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It's he, he's, well, he's trying to gain, he's gaming the system.

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He's demanding an exemption.

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He's demanding special privilege.

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And I think the answer is no.

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Fuck off.

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But doesn't he meet that eligibility requirement because he can get

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a medical exemption on the basis that it's not recommended to get

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a vaccine after you've had COVID.

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There's a period of time you have to wait.

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Two weeks.

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I think This is the difficulty.

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We have until the 16th of December, so what's the date today?

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After the 30th of December.

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The difficulty with all this is that as you're reading stuff and people

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are quoting rules, you don't know whether that's a Tennis Australia

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rule, whether it's a Victoria quarantining rule, or whether it

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is a federal government visa rule.

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And people, as I'm reading stuff in social media, and even in Um, reputable, um,

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mainstream media are getting these things intertwined and mixed up all the time.

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So, um, I read somewhere and I haven't had the chance all the time to verify

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it, which was that under the, under the Migration Act, um, the fact that you, um,

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you, you couldn't rely on the fact that you've previously contracted a disease.

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As a reason for not being vaccinated, like it specifically said that

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in the, in the Migration Act.

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Now, you'll see other people quoting other stuff, um, but that's to do

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with often Victorian quarantining rules and Tennis Australia rules

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and not the federal visa rules.

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So, the reporting on this by the media has been terrible because they say things

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like, Djokovic is one, he'll be playing.

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Without, without stopping and going, well of course the federal government can still

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make the decision, like, they just knew nothing about it, these people, and, and

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the confusion where they've been chopping and changing between Atargi rules.

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Victorian rules, Tennis Australia rules and, and migration rules makes

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it really confusing to try and, um, um, get to the final answer.

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So, um, so yeah.

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But it certainly is the case that the, the Minister can just say on public

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interest grounds, I'm saying you're out.

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Apparently I was looking on Twitter, I've actually been following Twitter

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a little bit in recent times and somebody was saying on that, that,

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um, That they're looking heavily at whether he lied about whether

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he travelled in the last two weeks.

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Apparently when you fill in your form, you have to say whether you have done

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any overs travelled between countries in the last two weeks, and he said no.

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And they're looking at his social media posts, which seem to indicate Yes, so

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the point was he flew out of Spain, so he had to have been in Spain for at least

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two weeks, and it looks like he didn't leave Serbia until a week before he flew.

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And there's some other posts with him, social media things, where he's

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appeared at different things, so.

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But also, he was supposed to isolate for two weeks after testing

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positive, and he was pictured out in public with no mask on.

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But more importantly.

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On the visa application, when you are asked have you travelled between

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countries in the last two weeks and you say no, and at the bottom of the

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application it says if you've lied about anything in your responses, that's a

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serious problem and we may use that as a reason for rejecting your visa.

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So, they are madly scampering now to see whether he lied on those sorts of things

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and will use that as sort of ammunition for potentially bouncing him out.

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What a mess.

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What a complete mess.

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And if he gets kicked out for this, he's banned for three years,

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although that's a case by case.

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They could always waive that.

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They could always say, up to three years.

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So they could say, well, you can come back next year, if you want to.

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Oh, dear oh dear.

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Okay, um.

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My personal view is, is that if they let him play, that will be it for them.

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I just think particularly Victoria will be so outranged if they let

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him play that they'll definitely lose the federal election.

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Right.

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That's my view.

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I think Australia's largely centrist.

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I think the

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Uh, sounds like Shea has just Frozen, and she disappeared.

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Hopefully she'll come back.

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So, um, David in the chat room says, It took me two years to get visa,

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to get my visa to come to Australia.

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Every single part of every form had to be absolutely correct.

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Why is it not the same for Novacs?

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I think it might be David.

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I think they're going through it with a fine tooth comb.

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Um, uh, let me just see.

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Um Uh, did we block Dire Straits for any reason, Joe, in the chat?

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Have we blocked anybody?

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No, I've, I've looked.

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It might be the bot.

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Okay, it might be the bot who did automatically Dire Straits.

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We didn't do it, um, so, uh, let's see.

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Cause Dire Straits thought he was, uh, it was blocking him swearing.

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Yeah, no, I don't think it might have just, uh, come through quickly.

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So, okay, hopefully Shea's, um, reconnecting and coming back to us

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and Um, what else have I got here?

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Oh, so of course, the Serbian, um, President came out in support of

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Novak Djokovic, um, called for the end to the harassment, um Yeah, he

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said, why are we picking on him?

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He's not a Muslim.

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Yes, um, at least he cares about his people.

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Well, there is that.

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So, Morrison, um, if you're looking at Julian Assange, is just saying, well

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that's a matter for, uh For the, uh, authorities in the UK, and, uh, nothing

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to do with us, so At least the Serbian President cares about his people.

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Uh, also Um, Barnaby Joyce has said that Novak Djokovic's detention is not hurting

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Australia's international reputation.

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Which might be a fair enough opinion, except back in 2015, in relation

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to gay marriage, um, he told the ABC Insiders program that basically

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Australia's support of gay marriage was harming our international reputation,

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particularly with places like Indonesia.

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Um, he said that I think what we have to understand is that when we go there,

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there are judgments, whether you like it or not, that are made about us.

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And they see in how we negotiate with them, whether they see us,

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whether they see us as decadent.

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So that was Barnaby Joyce saying, one of the problems with marriage equality

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was what would people think of us.

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Meanwhile, um, he doesn't see any problem with what, uh, is

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happening with Novak Djokovic.

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Um, you know, what would I do now if I was in charge?

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Sorry, Sarah, you said you would, um, what would you do?

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You'd let him stay or you'd kick him out?

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What would you do with York?

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I think that if they, if, I think that if they let him stay and play, that

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will be the end of their government, because the outrage will be so, um,

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palpable, particularly for Victorians, who've fallen all, all the rules.

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And, um, met all these standards, only to be let down so badly.

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What would you do if you were in charge?

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If you were trying to minimise the damage?

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Well, what would you do?

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Is it the right thing now?

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What would you think is the right thing to do?

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Ignoring whether you want to win an election or whatever, what do

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you think is the right thing to do?

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Um, the right thing?

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God, I haven't thought about that a lot.

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It's hard to, isn't it?

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We get so used to, how can we fuck these people over or how

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can we screw the system or?

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Um,

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What about you, Jo?

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While Che's thinking.

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Let him play.

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Let him play.

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The right thing to do.

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Joe, if, you know, just It's the right thing to do if you are a benevolent

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dictator in, or what, no, if you're just I just want to do the right thing here.

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What, what do you think should happen?

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I think the right thing is kick him out.

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Um, he's gaming the system.

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Uh, whether or Tennis Australia thought he was valid or not.

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Um, we have rules.

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He's trying to get an exemption to the rules.

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And it sends a bad message to those people who feel coerced into getting vaccines.

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So those who have been vaccinated despite their misgivings.

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And it aids those who think that they have a right to ignore the

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rules and not be vaccinated.

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I think it's not good for us.

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Okay.

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Before he left, I would have definitely said, you're not allowed in.

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I would definitely have been in favour of saying, keep him out because he

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just doesn't comply with the rules.

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And, what, if we're just going to let everybody in who's been, had

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COVID but hasn't been vaccinated, and that's a complete change of our

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system, um, would that be so bad?

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So, if we did change the rule and just said, oh, if you've had COVID you can

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come in, would that be a catastrophe?

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So, we can change the rules, but the problem is, why are we

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changing the rules to suit him?

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Or, like, rules have really got to be changed a lot now though.

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Like, um, for example, checking in at every cafe that you go to.

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Why, what's the point now?

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So, should we just give up on demanding that people are vaccinated because

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the majority of us are vaccinated?

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Yeah, I mean, have we reached, when do we reach the point where we just go,

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the whole point was to get vaccinated so that we can move on, and have not we,

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have we not reached that point at now?

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Well, but then, you know, um, you, there's many countries that still

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demand the yellow fever vaccination.

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Mm.

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Before you travel to the country, you know, why can it not be part of,

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um, our, our border requirements?

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There was, certainly when I applied for my visa to come here, um, I couldn't be HIV

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positive and I couldn't have tuberculosis.

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So You know, and that was because, yeah, and that was because we don't

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want to have to pay for your health care in the, which you have a much

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higher risk of, of, so if Djokovic caught COVID and ended up in hospital

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on a ventilator for months, right?

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Okay, well, that's, so being unvaccinated, having had the disease, does that make

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your chances of hospitalisation far less?

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Um, if he's had Delta and he catches Omicron, probably not.

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If his head on the economy catches a vibe, Delta, probably not.

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Deep throat, do some homework in the meantime before you come on on that one.

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Might need your help.

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But, you know, it's things like, um, for example, people coming in overseas who

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are having to quarantine for two weeks.

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Meanwhile, people who are already here and we know have got COVID,

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we're saying, oh, one week's enough.

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Like this, and that's clearly a bizarre inconsistency.

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Like.

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So we are really in the realm where a lot of these rules have to start

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changing, I think, and Alright, let's bring in some consistency.

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Enough with the cough up.

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You know, working in airports, I was so expecting to see much better management of

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the vaccination status, the requirements, the PCR tests, and of course we didn't.

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There's not been a single police check on me or any of the passengers

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in any of the flights I've done.

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Not a single one.

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Right.

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Yep.

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So I think there is a case for procedural fairness.

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We do need a consistent line, so fine, but we're not actually demonstrating

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that in Australia or anywhere else.

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So I really don't see why we have to either make Ol Mate a martyr

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or Yeah, I think it's great.

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He used some of his power to call out the procedural unfairness and the

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clock, clock ups that keep happening.

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Mm hmm.

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Plenty of other people, like, I can see in the chats, plenty of other people

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who, like, have suffered some unfairness or had to do things a particular way.

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Yep.

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So from a health management perspective, it's still a good idea to force people

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to be vaccinated and just having had the disease really, uh, uh, is

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a, it's, it's a different thing to having been vaccinated in terms of.

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our health management process, it seems.

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So the vaccination is a known dose with a known outcome.

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The problem with catching the disease is you can test positive,

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you've had a minor dose.

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Which gives you limited, um, antibodies, uh, or you could have a major dose,

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which, yeah, protects you fully.

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The question is, with a live, uh, infection, we don't know how

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much, uh, immunity you've got.

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Whereas it's a lot more consistent with a vaccine where there's a known dose.

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It's not perfect, but there's a better outcome.

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Yep.

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And in the end, it's not a lot to ask.

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Just get a needle in your arm, hopefully in the right spot in your

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arm, which we'll get to very soon.

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So, yeah, okay.

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So we can sort of come to the conclusion.

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It's, uh, from a health management perspective for our,

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uh, country, it's still a good idea to insist on vaccinations.

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The fact that you've had the disease, too bad.

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Just get vaccinated.

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And, really, if we allow him to stay, then, for consistency, we

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should be saying, um, yeah, otherwise we're opening the floodgates

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to everybody in that situation.

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So, uh Just on that point on procedural fairness and proper systems, Bernard

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Tomic is on Twitter at the moment.

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Uh, he let rip to one of the Tennis Australia officials because he's

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pretty sure he just lost his tennis match and he reckons he absolutely

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will have contracted COVID.

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And he found it absolutely appalling that the only thing that was protecting,

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um, He's frozen again, Trevor.

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No, we can hear you.

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Um, perfect.

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The only thing that was, that, the only protection in place was the rapid

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antigen PECR test or anything else.

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Right, so he's saying, so he contracted COVID on a tennis court

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by a tennis player, and that's what, and that's what's costing the game.

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Oh, during the game he contracted it.

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I'm not sure about that, I think, I've heard lame excuses

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for losing a tennis match.

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But he does make the same point is we've got to have some consistency,

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we've got to have a proper system, we've got to, you know.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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And We won't have to practice Jopovich now, anyway.

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In, uh, in the chat room, um, what have we got?

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Um, uh, Steel Wolf said Shay is a bot, everybody look busy.

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That's when you disappeared.

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Uh, Die Straights is a good one.

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The right thing to do is the opposite of whatever the prime marketer thinks.

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That's, that's a very good Die Straights.

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I like that.

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Um, Watley says the right thing to do is to boot him out.

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David says I live in Victoria.

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Everyone I work with thinks he should be thrown out.

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Victorians will stop following any guidelines if he stays.

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So, um, that's a good point.

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I mean, here in Queensland, we've been largely immune from all of this stuff.

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Immune's not the right word, but you know what I mean.

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And, um, but yeah, people have gone through a lot in places like Victoria and

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have thought that others are sidestepping it, uh, and gaming the system.

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Uh, yeah, that's a good point.

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So, oh well, um There we go.

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So, let's introduce Deep Throat and I'll bring him in now.

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So, Deep Throat, you're live on air.

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Welcome back to the podcast.

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And have you got your microphone on?

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Because I can't hear you.

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You're talking away and You, um, you keep talking and I'll tell you when I

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can hear you, Deep Throat, because I can't hear you at all at this stage.

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So, allow access to How's that?

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How's that?

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That's better.

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We can hear you, Deep Throat.

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Hello, everyone.

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For the third time.

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Good to have you back on, uh, Deep Throat.

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Now, the reason for talking to you is you described a situation to

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me where you were in a pharmacy watching somebody get vaccinated.

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Do you want to tell the story and what your thoughts are about that?

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Yeah, yeah, I will.

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I just thought maybe I'd give people a little bit of background.

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At one stage I was, um, running, or my team, I was part of a team running a

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vaccination, um, um, system in one state in a developing country, so, and it

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was a nightmare trying to get vaccines to rural areas, um, in poor areas in

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India, um, and keep the cold chain going.

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So, um, it's, it's, you know, in that chain where you're getting

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vaccines out, it only takes one little hiccup for it to all go wrong.

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Okay.

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So, and, uh, so anyway, getting back to my story, which I told Trevor about, um,

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Um, I was at my local pharmacy and, uh, and he was really busy because he was

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doing some vaccinations with Moderna.

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And I was thinking to myself, oh, maybe Moderna might be better than getting

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the Pfizer because I sort of, you know, was booking in for my booster

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and Pfizer was going to be it and I was sort of tossing up that sort of thing.

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And then he went off into his little sort of cupboard, um, area

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to, um, uh, to do the vaccine.

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And then he comes out with, uh, with this and after giving them vaccine to this.

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The woman and, uh, and my heart sort of froze because I saw where,

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where he'd done the vaccine.

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It was definitely suboptimal, um, and not really This is where the band

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aid was placed on the person's arm.

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Yeah, the band aid was placed.

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He shared a nice band aid on there.

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Something like, I've just had COVID or something.

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I can't really read it myself.

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It mentions COVID, so, um, it is a little bit above the insertion of the deltoid

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muscle there, but not, not very much.

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And, uh, um, it's It's supposed to be an intramuscular injection, and

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there are probably a few muscular fibres there as you can see from the

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anatomy book there, but not many.

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Okay, so on the screen, dear listener.

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So, you were in the pharmacy and you just sort of surreptitiously took a

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photo of a shelf and you just happened to capture this arm in the background.

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Yeah, that's right.

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It was just a sheer accident that this arm just happened to appear in the

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shot as I was taking a photo of the instructions on some medications there.

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That's right.

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So you just happened to have, yes, so on the screen to your

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listener is the arm in question.

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And the spot where the injection was is very, very high up

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compared to where it should be.

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Is that what we're saying?

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No, no, it's in the middle there.

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It's where the band aid is.

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Oh, hang on.

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Let me see.

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See the band aid?

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Oh, way over on the edge there.

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Yeah, well, I can't point it, but it's where the band aid is.

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So, uh.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah, dear listener, there is a band aid.

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Basically we're that, um, yeah, it's way over on the side.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Oh, I'm like, okay, I was looking at a different photo.

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Yeah.

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So it's around the side from where it should be.

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Yeah.

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So for those of you who want to know about anatomy, it's an intramuscular injection,

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the COVID injections, and they're supposed to go into the deltoid muscle.

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Um, and most people know what the deltoid muscle is, but what they

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might not know is it inserts actually halfway down the humerus, which is

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the upper, the bone in the upper arm.

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Okay.

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Um, and at that spot, it's mostly tendon, um, as it is where that X

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is at the top there, where it is, where the origin of the, um, the

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muscle is, and that's tendon as well.

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So, if you're injecting it down as low as where he is injecting it, then, um,

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your chances of hitting muscle are, you know, like, vanishingly small,

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really, because there's not as much muscle there, it's mostly tendon, so.

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So I'm, I'm sort of thinking to myself, has this woman had a intra

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tendon injection, which is nowhere that I know is that's where you're

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supposed to give her the vaccination.

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And if you get an injection into the tendon rather than the muscle

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is it almost useless, is it?

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Um, well yes, I tried to find out about intra tendon injections

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and there's nothing to find out because no one does that.

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So I'm on shaky ground because I can't give you any scientific evidence.

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I was thinking to myself, that must have really hurt what she hadn't done there.

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And I'm thinking tomorrow, in the day after, I'm thinking the next day for

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her, she's going, Oh, gee, that was a terrible, terrible COVID vaccine.

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It's really hot and red and sore.

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And so, so yeah, so I went home and I put together this

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sort of a bit of a info form.

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And then I went back to the pharmacist and said, Oh, look, um, You know,

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I don't, I don't want to be mean or anything like that, but I think

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you gave it in the wrong spot.

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Oh, okay.

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Here's, here's, here's it, and, uh, um, I, I think he took it on board,

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and I'm, I hope he's professional about it, and, uh, and has learned

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something from that, um, and, uh, he did say that, he did say that, look, you

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know, you know, people make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from their

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mistakes, so, so I think he took it in.

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In good form, really.

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So, but anyway, that's, that's my story there and, and I got that from,

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I think that might have been, um, also on the CDC website about, you know,

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where vaccines are supposed to do and that adverse reaction there, which is.

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The sort of thing this poor woman might be looking at the

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day after with, um, inflammation and, uh, and swelling and that.

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But the other thing is, um, there's a good chance, you know, that it

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hasn't taken, you know, as a vaccine.

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She thinks she's had a booster or whatever it was and she's fine.

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Um, if it doesn't go into the muscle where there's a good va, you know,

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vascular, um, vascularization of that tissue, then it hangs around a

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bit in the subcutaneous tissue and therefore it will tend to get denatured.

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Um, and therefore might not have as much effect as it should have.

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So, so.

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Here I'm thinking, like, there's been, what, well over 100 years of vaccine

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development and, you know, we've had this massive thing on, on, you know,

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genetics and genetic engineering and they've got this vaccine done in the

Speaker:

Pfizer labs and they've got it out and they've gone all the way through here

Speaker:

and then some pharmacist gives it in the wrong spot and I'm going, oh wow,

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you know, like, gee, come on, come on.

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Yeah.

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Every step of the chain has to be in place, as you say.

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Every step.

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There's only need one, one thing has to go wrong and, and, and you're done.

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And, uh, and I've seen that happen.

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Now, some places take this very seriously, the positioning.

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Deep Throat.

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Tell that story as well.

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You know how when you get your, you know, you've had your COVID vaccine

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and probably on the first one you get that sheet, or hopefully you haven't,

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and you've got to tick the boxes.

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No, I don't have this, I don't have this, I don't have that.

Speaker:

And on that sheet there's a particular condition.

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Unfortunately, my wife has one of those conditions, rare conditions,

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where she can't have the vaccine.

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And so, we were sweating on this because her immunologist, um, was

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saying, Look, if you get COVID, it's probably going to kill you.

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If you get the vaccine, there's no good chance of killing you.

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So, we were sort of in this terrible situation.

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But, what they did was at the Royal Brisbane Hospital here in Brisbane,

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um, they, um, opened up a specialist vaccination clinic for people who have

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problems with vaccine, vaccination, um, to see if they can get rounded and help them.

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So, so her immunologist You know, referred her along to this vaccination

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clinic and she went through the whole process and got the different vaccines

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tested to see which would be the safest and then, you know, holding her breast,

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she goes in there and gets it done.

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But the interesting thing was when they, um, when she was having it

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done, the nurse who did it measured out, you know, using the anatomical

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landmarks and marked where it should go.

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And she actually did it three times to make sure it was exactly where it

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should be using the needle that was going to be exactly the right length for

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her, you know, body, um, body makeup.

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Um, and, and that's how she had.

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So, my, I don't know for sure, but I think being a specialist in immunization,

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um, clinic, they want to get it exactly in the right spot so that you don't

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get adverse sort of reactions and that.

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So, I don't think that's necessary for the average, um, Um, Doctor or

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Pharmacist to do, because you've got a pretty big area there to aim,

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so it doesn't cause any problems.

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After that, next week I actually had my booster, you know, so I didn't go to the

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pharmacist, I decided against Moderna, I'd go for the Pfizer, where I was

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already booked in, so I went for that, and I waited until I'd had my vaccination

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and then my booster and I said, I said, look, what do you think about this?

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And she started laughing when I showed her where the, where the We're the um,

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you know, the band aid picture and all that and she said, I'm laughing because

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if I wasn't laughing I'd be crying.

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And, and then when I got home, I got out, I, I, I got into the front

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of the mirror and thought, where, you know, where has she gone?

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Because I had a tiny little band aid on and one of those spotlights.

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And it was, it was within two millimetres of the exact centre, so.

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When you've done enough of them, you can just eyeball it and go bang and get

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it in, so, um I'm surprised that you didn't, before going, market yourself

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with a pen as to I was going to, but I, I, I, I'm sort of thinking, this

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is a big insult, really, isn't it?

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So, I just trusted that going to a doctor was going to be better, but

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Having said that, you know, I probably just, it was a complete fluke to come

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across this situation and probably every, let me say, every other pharmacist in

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Australia is doing the right thing.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, there you go, dear listener.

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When you're going for your jab, um, look at the, um, it'll be on the website,

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it'll be in the show notes, it'll probably be the picture we use for this episode,

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um, a picture of where it should go.

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Can I just say one other thing?

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So, once you invited me on, Trevor, I thought, gee, I'd better do a little

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bit more research and make sure I'm on solid ground here, and I am.

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But I came across There's a, there's a, um, website which, and it's done by

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Melbourne's, Melbourne Vaccination um, Education Centre, and they say how to do

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vaccines, and, and it's not quite right.

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You know, I mean, it's, I'm going, hang on, their picture, you know,

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they've got this picture and it doesn't quite add up to the, you know,

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what they're saying in the words.

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So, so.

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I've got some sympathy for the, uh, the pharmacist, because maybe he was

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looking at that and, and he's gone online, he's possibly gone online and

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just looked at things and, and made his own decision, I don't know, does

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the Pharmacy Guild, maybe there's a pharmacist, pharmacist listening to this

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right now, do they give, um, education, instruction, they should do, but, uh,

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It's very easy, you know, with Mr.

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Google to sort of get on the wrong track, well, yeah.

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I think I read somewhere in the UK with the NHS that they avoided

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long queues because they asked for volunteers, for people to come and

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be trained in how to give injections.

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And so A lot of the significant number of injections were done by people

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who had no other medical training other than how to get an injection.

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And they would be potentially Mum said it was a bunch of middle aged, um,

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retire oh sorry, middle class retirees.

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Who were all having a wonderful time.

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She said it was wonderfully efficient and she was in and out.

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They didn't even hold her for 15 minutes.

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It was in, get your vaccine and then you're out again.

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Yep.

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And I can imagine somebody like that could actually be even better than

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a fully trained, you know, nurse or medical professional because With

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the right attitude, they just do what they're told without any preconceived

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ideas that they know better.

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So, I think I mentioned before in the podcast, Deep Throat, about

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they, um, they surveyed people in a hospital, uh, how to do CPR correctly.

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And there was, like, the registrar, the nurse, there was the cardiac surgeon,

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there was the, the ward psychologist, and a whole range of people who were

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Who were basically given material on how to do it correctly and then

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were tested on how well they did.

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And the person who performed best was the psychologist, because they,

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the psychologists would just do what they were told according to the

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instructions and follow it to the letter.

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Whereas the other people thought, oh, I've heard all this before, I remember

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back in uni days we were told to do this or do that and had these preconceived

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ideas that affected their performance.

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Which I don't say.

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An untrained person, uh, who just, with the right attitude,

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may be the best person?

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Oh, I think there's a lot to be said for that, and also for pharmacists

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and, you know, doctors and nurses.

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This is a small part of their day, in a sense, you know, doing this sort of thing.

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They're more focused on other things, so I think you're right.

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Um, just going back to that vaccination service that I was involved with and

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effectively running, um, We, we, we trained up health workers, which was

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based on the barefoot doctor model.

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And so what you were saying was correct.

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We just said, these are the things that we want you to do.

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The rest of it, you make sure you get them to a doctor or a nurse.

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But in your, it was with refugees, in your refugee settlements, um,

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this is what we want you to do.

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And, um, and I think you're right.

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I think, you know, they were just focused on this.

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This is all they had to do.

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Make sure kids got their vaccinations.

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You know, and doing, you know, and chronic diseases, making sure they've

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got their medications and that.

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And I think you're right.

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I think they did a really good job and stayed within that focus.

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And for them, that was the biggest part of their work, not

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a little part of their work.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Just one other thing.

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You mentioned earlier about the size of the needle.

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Would that mean that somebody who's particularly large, either muscular

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or just fat, should have a longer needle than somebody who's skinny?

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Well, absolutely, and if you go on, you know, various websites like the CDC

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and, and probably the Australian one, so I just can't remember where they

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are, they actually give a, um, there's a guidelines in terms of tables of what

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size needle you should, you should give.

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So if you've got a, like a neonate, you know, a newborn baby, you know,

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would be using a great needle.

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You know, big needles and that, and uh, and, and, and interesting when you think

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about things like that because neonate, you use a fairly, um, you know, not, not

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very long needle, but then when you get to the toddlers and that, they're actually

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quite chubby, so you've got to use quite a thick needle, and then when you get

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to the kids that are running around, you know, they, they become thin again, and

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you've got to use a thinner needle again.

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But if you get a really big, beefy guy, you know, you've

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got to use a bigger needle.

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So there are guidelines in the size of the needle, too, you know.

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Right.

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I've never paid any attention as to whether they sized me up and

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went, you're obviously a number six or a number ten or something.

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In your case, Trevor, I don't think it was the length of the needle,

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I think it was the thick one.

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They said, here's the biggest, thickest one we've got and let's

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do three of them at the same time.

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Well, funnily enough, I'm one of these people who faints when I get

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a needle, like just uncontrollably.

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So, whenever I get a needle, I always lie down.

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And so, even at these places with the vaccination centres.

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Uh, where everybody else is sitting in these long corridors of banks of people,

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I'd said, Show me where the bed is, cause I'm gonna lie down when you do this.

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So, um, yeah, so For something like that, it's not the time to be embarrassed.

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Because if you fall over and crack your head open, you know, you're in a bigger

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Spot a bobber, so it's not, yeah, just call your bride and tell them, look,

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I've got a problem, and they won't even think second, they won't even worry

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about, you know, it's part of their job.

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Yeah, no, they're very, they're very encouraging.

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Whenever I say that, um, for any needle, they say, oh, glad you told me, of

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course, lie down here, like they're Yeah, because you're right, they don't

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want you fainting, so yeah, and it's much more comfortable to lie down, so.

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Right, well Joe O'Shea, any questions for Deep Throat before we sign

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him out to his next appearance?

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No, it's Yeah, yeah, same.

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Likewise, likewise.

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So all the best there, you know, for 2022.

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All right, Deep Throat.

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Keep up the good work.

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All right, we'll have you on more often.

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Good luck.

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See you, Deep Throat.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Oh, there you go.

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The crackly voice, all back around to Deep Throat there.

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Mm hmm.

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There we go.

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Interesting.

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I love the fact that he took a photograph and then went back the next day and spoke

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to the pharmacist and said, pharmacist and said, Oh, this might not be right.

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How good's that?

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That's so good.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Okay, you're still in the chat room.

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You reckon Novak should stay or go?

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Let us know.

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Um, Watley the Wizard says, All hail Deep Throat.

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I agree.

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And, uh, um, David says, I had my booster on Saturday.

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I think the nurse got a bullseye.

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Good.

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All right, um,

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there was this fake tweet.

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There's, there's lots of fake Scott Morrison Twitter accounts.

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And this, this fake one said, um, when I bump into everyday

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Australians at the shops, the one thing I always hear is, when are we

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going to buy more heavy artillery?

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And today, that's what we've done.

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3.

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5 billion dollars worth of new tanks.

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Words fail me on these guys.

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Well, the only thing you can say is tanks for that.

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You could say that, Joe, you could.

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Tanks.

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You know, the last time we used a tank, I've got it here in an article

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I read, um, We haven't deployed a tank in combat since the Vietnam War.

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Like, the whole anti China rhetoric is, we're talking ships, we're talking

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missiles, we're talking planes.

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We're not talking tanks.

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Well, when we have to defend the Brisbane line.

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This is just toys for bullies, keeping the colonels and the generals happy.

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Um, so from the Americans, we've agreed to purchase 120 tanks, um, and 3.

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5 billion worth.

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Um, uh, the tanks will replace 59 Abrams MIA 1s.

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Which were bought in 2007, but have not seen combat.

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It's 15 years, they're old.

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Yeah, and the fact that they haven't seen combat?

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It's a deterrent, you know, that's just to prove that they worked.

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Yes.

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That's right.

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Chief of Army Lieutenant General Rick Burr said tanks and combat engineering vehicles

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were essential to Australia's ability to contribute to combat that could be

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integrated with forces of other countries.

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Because of their versatility, tanks can be used in a wide range

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of scenarios, environments and levels of conflict, he said.

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Honestly.

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And, in the same week, a few days later, M1A1.

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Thank you, Craig Peat.

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Um, Craig, what's your opinion on the tanks?

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Is that a good idea or not?

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I think Craig may have some expertise in matters of this type.

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Um, In the same week, Dutton said, uh, he urged celebrities and athletes

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to use their star status to draw attention to China's treatment of women.

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Warning that Beijing is escaping scrutiny despite the plight of

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Chinese tennis player, Peng Shui.

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Not that the government has got any problem with women and the treatment

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of women, but he's telling celebrities.

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Or even the treatment of tennis players.

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Yes.

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Or Yes indeed.

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Yes,

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Yep.

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What has this government got to do?

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Like, I know what I read.

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I mean, I do read NewsCorp stuff and I do read Fairfax stuff, and I

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can, this, can these guys get away with it with this sort of nonsense?

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Continually Can they?

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It it, it'll just be so interesting to see.

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So, um, John Lord wrote.

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I find it impossible to imagine that the Australian people could be so

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gullible as to elect for a fourth term a government that has performed so

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miserably in the previous three, and has amongst its members some of the

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most devious, suspicious and corrupt men and women, that they just might.

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Well, you know what Labor's like.

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They're always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Even they couldn't, surely, in this case.

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Surely.

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Um.

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Sad day paper, editorial, Scott Morrison's smile is like a measuring

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tape, it lengthens as he decides what it is he can get away with.

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The calibration is sometimes off, but this does not affect his confidence.

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Before he speaks, he sucks air hard through his nose.

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One last assessment, as if to smell the credulity of the room.

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Some people are good writers, that's good writing there.

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So I'm hanging my hat on my hopes on, yeah, the Batuta, the Chaser, the Shovel,

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every comedian in Australia, um, lots of people just, there is no shortage

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of, of things to poke fun at with these groups, so, with this government, so

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I'm just hanging my hat on people.

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Reading that stuff along the way and getting the idea.

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So, like, just to give you an example, some of the great headlines from,

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for example, the Batuta Advocate.

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So just going by the headline of some of their articles, um, Sleep Deprived

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Nurse Relieved To Hear Future Is Now In Safe Hands With 75 Diesel Powered Tanks.

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Um, Scotty Spent 3.

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5 Billion On Tanks To Distract From How He Treated Novact.

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To distract from rat shortage.

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Uh, Desperate Scotty informs media that Yokovich just threw children

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overboard from Quarantine Hotel.

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Future lockdowns all but confirmed after PM declares they'll never happen again.

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That sort of stuff you would hope would cut through.

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Let's, let's hope so.

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Yeah.

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I doubt it because the people, they're preaching to the choir.

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The people who believe it are the people who are going to be reading that.

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And the people who don't believe it won't read it.

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Yeah.

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But surely the older crowd who vote Conservative are dying off in the

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last three years and the younger ones have come in who couldn't vote in

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the last three years, the 16 and 17 year olds from the previous election.

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Hopefully it'll change.

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Now, you saw the, the tests for COVID, like people waiting five, six, eight.

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10 hours for a test?

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I looked at it and thought, are you crazy?

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Did you look at that and think, this is madness?

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What are you doing?

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Or did you think, good lord abiding citizen?

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No, I thought they were crazy.

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I went and got a test on the 30th of December And it was, oh my god,

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the queues are gonna be ridiculous.

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Mm hmm.

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And they had Three parallel queues going, and we were done in 15 minutes.

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I was impressed.

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If you'd arrived and they said, join the queue, it'll be three or

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four hours, would you have stayed?

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Probably not.

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Shay, did you think it was amazing that people would line up for those hours?

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For a test?

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I think, I think maybe they didn't know there might be other places, or

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I think they, I think they were just probably desperate, found, found their

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need to travel or their need to find out their test results urgently and

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just weren't thinking, like, um, Like, I can imagine if you had an overseas

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flight and you needed it, you had to, or even, but there couldn't have been that

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many people who needed it for a flight.

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I just, it just amazed me.

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People do just join queues.

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That's another funny thing about working in an airport.

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They'll queue up at check in places where there's obviously no people.

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They'll, yeah, I don't know.

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People, people, people will queue.

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But I had a similar experience.

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I went to get a test on the 29th just near my house.

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Drive through, 15 minutes.

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Right.

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So, I'm surprised people aren't Googling other places.

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But, I'm not that surprised.

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Right.

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Yes.

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They do the right thing.

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So they just get in the queue.

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And a lot of the news was saying, like, doesn't matter where you go,

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you're going to be queuing for hours, you're going to be waiting a long time.

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So it's been like, oh well, just pick one.

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I just could not sit in a car for four or five hours.

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I mean, what did these people do when they needed to go to the toilet?

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What, did they all have a piss bottle in the car or something?

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Did they, like, what did they do?

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I just, I presume there's facilities there for the staff.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, um, so do you listen to just, uh, my My two daughters contracted COVID,

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they were living in Brisbane, I was on the Gold Coast at the time, so we'd been

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out, and, uh, two grandchildren got it, and so they had sort of just regular flu

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symptoms for a day, and over and done with pretty quickly, so that was good.

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Pretty sure my wife, um, she had classic flu symptoms, plus, Loss of

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smell and taste and given the lack of the flu, the normal flu in the

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community, pretty sure she had it and, but we couldn't buy a rat anywhere.

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Uh, tried as hard as we wanted but we, we Signed up to the pharmacy when

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we were down the Gold Coast who said, yep, you'll have one in two days time,

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but they kept delaying it, delaying it because of logistics problems.

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And in the end, they just gave up and said, sorry, we thought we'd be able

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to provide one, just can't do it.

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So, so we'll probably end, um, of course.

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My wife and I are sleeping in the same bed and sharing lots of the same area,

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and if she had it, it's hard to imagine I didn't get it, but I've had absolutely

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zero symptoms, nothing at all, not a skerrick of anything, which is entirely

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possible because I'm triple vaccinated, so, um, so yeah, so if I had to place

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a bet, I would say my wife Um, almost certainly got it, and then therefore

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I most certainly must have got it, and didn't even know, so, that's what's going

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on in this household, so, um, and, it's interesting, where you'll have a lot of

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people like us, who were not able to get access to rats, who will never really

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be sure if we actually had it or not.

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I find that bizarre.

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I've been listening to my English friends talking about LFTs for the last two years.

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Which are lateral flow tests, and they've been given away for free.

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I mean, to the point where friends in the UK were talking about posting some to me.

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Uh, and for some reason we've called them rats and we're

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not giving them away for free.

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It seems like they're coming out of everybody's ears in Europe.

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There's so many they don't know what to do with them.

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Yeah, um, Julia says they had to wait for around five hours.

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You do what you have to do, everyone pitches in.

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Like, Julia, I reckon if we were in COVID Zero, I would've, like, at that

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point where we were trying to keep a lid on it and aim for COVID Zero,

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I possibly would've then, um, but, gee, when the cat's out of the bag

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like it has obviously been, I just, I just didn't see the point in it.

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Um, but, good on these people for, And you for doing the right thing, but I

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just sort of think, wow, that's, that's a commitment, um, to me when it was like,

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the whole thing is just so prevalent and is, is now the cat's out of the

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bag, what sort of, what was the point?

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So, and Julia says, yeah, it may be different now.

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So Julia, if the same thing happened today, he, um, he

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wouldn't do it by the sounds of it.

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So, um.

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And, and, you know, it's very different when you're talking

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about getting a vaccine.

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Yep.

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Where the effects are going to be long term and long lasting.

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But as you, yeah, under the current circumstances, if you

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get a positive test, so what?

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Really, is it going to make any difference to your behaviour?

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No, that's right.

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You've just got to assume you've got it and act according to it.

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And, um, yeah.

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You know, what happened to that army guy who was trotted out by the Prime Minister

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and would appear standing beside him.

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as our logistics expert because everyone knows the Army's really good for

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helping you organize your logistics.

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Yeah, I haven't seen him for six to eight weeks, , and I reckon the

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next time I see him, it will be when Scotty throws him under a bus,

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when he blames him for, uh, the poor rollout.

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Okay, now.

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The whole kerfuffle then.

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Prior to, in the world prior to Novak Djokovic, we had the whole conundrum.

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Not only the lack of rats, but the cost.

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And people saying these things should be provided for free.

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And what did the government say?

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Well, Simon Birmingham said, one of our cabinet ministers, In partnership with the

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states, our government is providing COVID 19 tests free to those who need them.

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Typical of Labor, Albanese says they should be free everywhere without knowing

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what it would cost or considering the wasteful hoarding it would generate.

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Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

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And, um, that independent journalist, if you like, Michael, um, forget his name,

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but he can tell you how much it'll cost.

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He measured it up against the tanks, because it would cost 230 million.

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Right.

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Yet how many tests.

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Yep.

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Yeah, that left us a good bunch of money left over.

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Well, if you're buying them wholesale at cost, that couldn't

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be more than a dollar each.

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25 million Australians, 10 each, 250 million dollars.

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Like, it's Yeah, right, exactly.

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Duh!

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Yeah, what, one a week for 10 weeks?

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Typical of Labor.

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Albanese says these should be free everywhere.

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But you know what?

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Labor was slow on it.

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Like, Albany They've got a spurious plot!

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When they came out, when this was being argued, it took days.

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Albanese initially said, I think they should be affordable.

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But he did not say they should be free.

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You're aware of that show?

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You saw that and just thought, what the hell are you doing?

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And in the absence of him, I must say, the independents like Joe Dyer for

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Boothby and the ones in Sydney have been out in force on Twitter, doing

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a really good job of, um, cleverly phrasing their complaints, you know?

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So, another opportunity, by the way.

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Dire Straits in the chat room says, the reason we haven't seen that army

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dude is he was out shopping for tanks.

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That's a vehicle.

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Yep.

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And Alison, uh, with the 30 percent positive rates for PCR, PCR tests, uh,

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she wouldn't be caught dead in a queue.

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If you're trying to catch COVID, that's where you'd go, isn't it?

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Oh, I just find that extraordinary.

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And, you know, surely people can see that we gave 38 billion to businesses

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like Gerry Harvey who didn't need it.

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And we're not prepared just to give out tests, and people can see, well

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that's what happens in other countries.

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This is not extraordinary, so um.

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Ah, surely people won't forget, please.

Speaker:

I know it's going to be five months away.

Speaker:

No, I think the impact has been widely felt.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, as this guy said on Twitter, thank goodness the government was smart and

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didn't give out the free, the much more expensive vaccinations and PCR tests.

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It's true, like these things are so obvious that you just sort of The

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statement is just so weird and so left field that the obvious misses you.

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Like, a PCR test is free, a vaccination is free, why isn't a rat free?

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Like It's a slippery slope, we're out of trouble.

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Uh, okay, um, okay, what else have we got here, um, spending, uh, oh Joe,

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you've been battling freethinkers.

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What's that mean?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Um, so, historically, freethinking was, uh, really a, um, a secular movement.

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It was all about freedom from religious dogma, and was Interesting was

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possibly, um, more centrist, so not left leaning, not right leaning, but seems

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to have become very, very libertarian recently and seems to be a hotbed

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for conspiracy theories about COVID.

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QAnon and Stop the Steal was probably the first signs of it and has become

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very, very jump on the latest bandwagon.

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So if there's a anti vaxx conspiracy going around, I tend to see it there

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first and Um, they are dogmatically certain that their, their scientists,

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their cherry picked scientists know more than the thousands and thousands

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of scientists who work in the field.

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And you're wading into the comment, uh, forums and, and, and trying

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a few punches out there, Joe.

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Um, it, it's less around trying to change the minds of the people

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whose minds have been made up.

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It's not letting the bullshit go unchallenged.

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for, you know, there's a thousand people in there, there's ten regular commenters.

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Uh, it's for the nine hundred and ninety people who are sat reading, so that they

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don't see the bullshit go unchallenged.

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Uh, and I did get a comment back the other day which said, thank you, you

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know, if it hadn't been for people like you putting reasonable arguments back, I

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would have fallen down the rabbit hole.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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And that's good.

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Yeah.

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And, and, you know, um, it, it really is.

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Sometimes it feels frustrating just dealing with the same

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bullshit over and over.

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Um, but it is worthwhile not to change the minds of those people

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who are dogmatic, but for the silent majority who are listening.

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Well, I applaud you for your efforts, Joe, just as I applauded deep throat

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for, uh, visiting the pharmacist and telling him how to do the needle, getting

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off your butt and doing something.

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That's what it's about.

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Joe, you're going to get off your butt and do something with Qantas,

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but we can't talk about that probably.

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We have to work out my best argument.

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Hey, uh, in the chat room, we said earlier, if you're late to the chat

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room, um, know that Jogovich, should we kick him out or let him stay?

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Just let us know what your thought is there.

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Be just, I'm curious to see what the response is.

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So let me know your vote on that.

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I'd really like to get 100 comments on this episode, uh, we get a

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little indicator pops up if we do.

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We shouldn't be too far off it, I think.

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So, okay.

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Um, Spending has crashed, so there is a graph which, oh, this was put out

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by ANZ, Observed Spending, and I think that uses credit card information

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and other stuff, and essentially, um, after, um, in the last few

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weeks, retail spending has absolutely plummeted in Australia, so if you've

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got a small business relying on people buying stuff, It's been tough times.

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So, New South Wales, I think, is finding that, um, while they don't, well, they've

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relaxed the rules in terms of businesses operating, the businesses themselves are

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having to close because their staff are all sick and people aren't coming anyway.

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Like, our economy has really taken a hit.

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In the last few weeks, if you're involved in that side of the

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world, let me know in the comments.

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If you've got a small business that tries to sell stuff, you

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must have found things tough.

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Even people say, I've got friends, uh, Jewish community in Melbourne, uh, lots

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of their friends are medical specialists.

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And they're doing it tough, because all elective surgery has been cancelled,

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so, um, with everybody, even though you've got a high income, you invariably

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create expenses that more or less match your income, and when the tap's

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turned off, you're in trouble, and, um, they said something like at the

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Jewish school, um, that they go to.

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There was an extraordinary number of defaults on payment of, um, school fees

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that they hadn't seen ever before, um, I think she was quoting a quarter to a

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third but I'm not sure on that but, uh, yeah, so even in the top end, medical

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specialists, for example, struggling because can't do elective surgery.

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Can't get money.

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So, fuel in chat room says let him stay.

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Let me know your votes.

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Um, oh, what else have we got?

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Just examples of media bias.

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Um, I saw this one, which So this is two different papers on the same day.

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Uh, the Sydney Morning Herald.

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Um, well actually I'll start with Victor.

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Yeah, Sydney Morning Herald.

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On that day there were 22 and a half thousand new cases.

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And who's the SME churned by?

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Yes, Fairfax.

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Which, who's running Fairfax?

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And nine, Peter Costello.

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He's head of that now, isn't he?

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So, they've gone, yeah.

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So, on the day that 22, 500 new cases came out in New South Wales, the

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headline in the Sydney Morning Herald was, Hope bursts through COVID cloud

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as Sydney rings in the new year.

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Meanwhile, in Victoria, which had a third that number, it had 7, 700

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cases, the age, the headline was, New infection surge to an all time high

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as state hits 7, 442 COVID cases.

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These, these are the sort of everyday, um, media bias messages

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that come through that, uh, just subliminally work on people.

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Um.

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Oh, over the holidays, got a very nice donation from Dave S.

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Thank you Dave for that very generous donation, much appreciated.

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If you would like to donate to this podcast and help.

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Keep the lights on, head to the website, you'll see a link for donations, Patreon,

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where you can donate per episode, or if you don't like the idea of that,

Speaker:

there's PayPal, so you can do either a one off or a regular donation through

Speaker:

that, helps pay the costs, lets me know that you think it's worthwhile.

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Buy the rum.

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And it's, and helps pay for the rum, uh.

Speaker:

So, mind you, at the rate we're going, we probably won't be all together

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in this room for quite a while.

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But, um, there's remote things we can find.

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So, um, alright.

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Other things that happened Just quickly, I was talking to my older

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sister today, and she, and she was just like, the obvious biggest problem

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Australia has right now is with it.

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And in parts of England, they did successfully boycott his papers.

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So, any ideas how the little people Can sort of banish or

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confront the Rupert problem.

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I reckon, I reckon people should in, lots of people don't buy it, like, nobody

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really buys newspapers anymore, but I reckon people should say at a cafe or

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something, what is that rag doing here?

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What are you, I'm going to stop buying your coffee if you're

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going to put that thing here.

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Um, yeah, maybe that's the way to go.

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Like, say to them, like, that's I see it at the checkout at Woollies, yeah.

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Should I be lobbying Woollies to take it away from the checkout?

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Clearly a waste of time.

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They're never going to listen to you.

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But maybe local cafes would.

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Yeah, maybe.

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I don't know.

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And is it really Rupert or is it James?

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Uh, is there a difference?

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Well, James is, James is a small Christian.

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That's the problem.

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I don't know, whichever one took over.

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Lachlan Lachlan.

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Lachlan took over.

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Okay.

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Is it Lachlan?

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Yeah.

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Lachlan took over and he's a mad Mm-Hmm.

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Christian.

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He actually believes it.

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Mm-Hmm.

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, you know, just, you know, Rupert's just doing a deal with the,

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with the evangelicals for power.

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So, so who was worse believes who was worse?

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The Maxwells or the, the Murdochs.

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Clearly Murdoch's, way more, far more powerful, far more pervasive, far more

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organised, like, you know when people talk about Trump As far as we know they

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weren't smuggling children to Yeah, but his worldwide influence is way

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worse than Maxwell's, so, when people talk about Trump they go, imagine if

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there was a guy like Trump, but, who was actually clever and organised.

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Well you don't have to imagine, it's just, Rupert Murdoch and he

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decided to do it via a media empire, because it was the most effective.

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Very weird.

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Okay, um, let me see.

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James is Packer's boy.

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Yeah, um, that's right.

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James is James Packer.

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Who's the other one?

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There's Lachlan and, who's the other one who sort of left the family

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amongst the Murdochs and is now really writing anti Murdoch stuff?

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Is he a James as well?

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I thought so, but maybe not.

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Yeah, um.

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Uh, let me see what we've got here in the comments.

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Uh, uh, Alison wrote a lot, but you didn't, um, you didn't say,

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Alison, whether you thought Novak should be kicked out or not.

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I'm interested to know what you think.

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Um, um, okay.

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What else have I got here?

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Um, Tony Blair was knighted.

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Sir Tony Blair.

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The guy who's the architect of the Iraq War, one of the main instigators of it,

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and we know that it was done for bullshit reasons, we know it killed millions

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of people, and he gets a knighthood.

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Um, one million Iraqis dead, three million dispossessed.

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From the, this is from the BBC.

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The ex Labour leader who was in power from 1997 to 2007 was given the title

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as the New Year's Honours were awarded.

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Uh, there's a petition that his role in the Iraq war makes him

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personally responsible for many deaths and accuses him of war crimes.

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Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, said, said that Tony

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Blair had earned a knighthood.

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And a government minister said it was only right to reward the former Prime Minister

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who had done many good things for the UK.

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Um, so he became an Order of the Garter, England's oldest and most

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senior order of chivalry, and it's the personal choice of the Queen, who has

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up to 24 knight and lady companions.

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Uh, current Prime Minister Boris Johnson not involved in the decision.

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Um, unlike the New Year's Honours List, which is drawn up by the

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government for the Queen's approval, the Order of the Garter is bestowed

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as a personal gift by the Queen.

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And um, um, I thought it was a fairly usual payoff for former Prime ministers.

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Anyway.

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It was Bar Stacher.

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Yeah.

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Wasn't John Major a knighted?

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Yep.

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Indeed.

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But when you've started a war like that, Iraq war, at what

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point, what disqualifies you?

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Aucklands, yes.

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Well, indeed, yes.

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Didn't kill as many people.

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No.

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Didn't dispossess as many people.

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The scale was smaller, honestly.

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And, uh.

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So he created the war, and he gets a knighthood.

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Julian Assange exposes the war crimes, facing lifetime in prison.

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Just wait till Boris gets knighted.

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And

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so that's the Queen's personal choice.

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And did you hear that, um, LNP's state, uh, member, Jared Blaise, um, he wants a

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new statue for the Queen, um, commissioned to celebrate her 70th year on the throne.

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With all the shit going on in the world, that's what Jared's wanting to do.

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It's important.

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Yep.

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We've just named some island in Canberra after her as well.

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We've named the state after her.

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He's a devoted monarch.

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He's also called on the Palaszczuk government to look at naming a public

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monument after Elizabeth II as well.

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So that's what keep, that's what keeping Jared Alight awake at night.

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Now Alison has given her a strong opinion.

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She's declared him a fuckwit.

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Yes.

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He's the one who actually He was on TV bemoaning the work

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of the Noosa Temple of Satan.

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And, uh, taking it all very seriously is a terrible thing.

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And, uh, in the background, one of his fellow MPs was sort of giggling.

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And, um, and that was the one that we found out through freedom of,

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the right to information request.

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Somebody internally was writing to somebody else internally saying, don't

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these God botherers ever get sick of doing this, or something like that.

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So, that's Jared Blayge for you.

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Um How are we going for time?

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9.

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03, um, you guys got anything you want to get off your chest before

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I think about winding this one up?

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Have you guys got anything desperate to get off your chest?

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Um, I was just thinking about the right thing.

Speaker:

I don't know about kicking him out or letting him stay being the right thing.

Speaker:

One right thing I'd like to see is less discretion for

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ministers around this stuff.

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Write a clear policy, get it passed through parliament.

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It was purposefully designed as all powerful, without any checks and balances.

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Yeah.

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Especially if you have a friend who's got an au pair that needs a visa.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Limit those types of discretionary powers.

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Or write a policy that has a clear mandate about when they can be applied.

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That's the right thing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, okay.

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Um Oh, actually, there was one other thing I did want to mention,

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um, there was a business which, now you've heard of employees being

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sacked for not being vaccinated.

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Oh, yeah, the Church of Ubuntu.

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The Church of Ubuntu sacked an employee because she was vaccinated.

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Yeah, well, let's put it this way there.

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Grasp on, um, science is Fairly limited.

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They're heavily into the alternative medicine.

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Sorry, so called alternative medicine, which gets abbreviated to SCAM.

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So this woman was working for the church, which runs a wellness clinic, that

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sells medicinal hemp products, and she was a client consultant for 12 months,

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but she was dismissed after her boss found out she had received the jab.

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A letter from the church's vice president praised her work and said

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getting a vaccination was inconsistent with its religious teachings.

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It's, uh, in their words, conscientiously and deliberately

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with intent is in contradiction with our constitution and contrary

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to our position on what is required of us by our Lord God and Creator.

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And, no doubt, this is a genuinely held religious belief

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and therefore Religious freedom.

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Religious freedom.

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And it doesn't really matter whether it's complete nonsense, it's just,

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is that a genuinely held belief?

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In which case, sack her.

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So, as this article says, The debate about the proposed religious discrimination

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bill often neglects to acknowledge religious institutions are already

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permitted to make discriminatory hiring and firing decisions so long as they are

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motivated, by their religious beliefs.

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Um, that's according to Jolene Reilly Munton, a professor in the Faculty of Law

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at the University of Technology, Sydney.

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Um, she said religions did not have to prove their reasons are valid according

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to some measure of objective rationality.

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They just have to establish that they took their decision in good faith to avoid

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injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherence of that religion or creed.

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There you go.

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So, Alison has gone off again in the chat room.

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You're feisty tonight, Alison.

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Oh dear.

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So yeah, there we go.

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As long as it's your religious belief.

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Oh sorry, it's your belief on religion.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Sack people.

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Incredible.

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This is where we're at in Australia.

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Other countries would be appalled.

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Apparently the ABC.

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Uh, each year broadcasts Christmas messages from religious groups, and this

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year, just gone, they broadcast the one from, uh, Brian Houston of Hillsong, as

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part of a Christmas message on the ABC.

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For fuck's sake.

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Can you not, as an editorial decision, just say, we are

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not going to help this group?

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Totally could.

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Well Um, they did allow John Dixon to pen some article about why Jesus was real.

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Right, yes.

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Why you've seen people believe that Jesus is real.

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And that was on ABC, yeah.

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That was on ABC too.

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Yeah.

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Um, actually, got an interesting statistic my son came across.

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Here's a good argument.

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When we talk about how many people are religious, and we look at the census

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where people Declare whether they have a religious affiliation or not.

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I reckon this is a good test.

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Whether you choose a civil celebrant for your marriage or a religious celebrant.

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Like, that's really part of whether you're a practicing, believing, religious person.

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I mean, if you truly believe in a religion and are a follower, you would not be

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getting married by a civil celebrant.

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And, um, The 2020 figures are out from the Australian Bureau

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of Statistics, and 80 percent of Australians chose a civil celebrant.

Speaker:

That's a big proportion, I think, yep, so, um, um, so yeah, I've got the statistics

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there, and when we're really talking about genuine religious belief, surely.

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If you are getting married, you would have a religious celebrant

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if you're a true believer.

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It was interesting to see 20 years ago how high it was.

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Um, yeah.

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It was 75 percent religious, I think.

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Um, let me see.

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I'll pull that up on the screen.

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Let me see here.

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So Oh no, 50%.

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I hope you got it there.

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Let me see.

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2000 was 50 percent civil celebrants.

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Yep.

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52.

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8.

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And 2010, 69.

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2020, 80%.

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Now, I wouldn't mind doing, uh, satanic religious ceremonies

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down the track in my retirement.

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That could be fun, I reckon.

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There could be some really cool people who would want that.

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So, that's on the agenda.

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It's very, very difficult to get registered as a Because you have to have

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a full course that's deemed the equivalent of The Civil Registrant, um, course.

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How hard is that thing?

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I think that's a two week course.

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Right.

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As I said, in retirement, it can't be that hard.

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It's a lot easier to do what the Pastavarians are doing and

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become civil celebrant, who do a religious themed ceremony.

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Right.

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Um, what else have we got here?

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I think that is the main ones to get through.

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It's 9.

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10, we've gone for an hour and 40 minutes.

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We've kept Shea out of the Shark Tank yet again.

Speaker:

Uh, let me get rid of that screen.

Speaker:

She's not Shea the Subversive, she's Shark Tank Shea, isn't she?

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Yeah, well, either one.

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Steel Wolf has posted a joke twice.

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Shall we hear it?

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Yeah, what was it?

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Why don't ants get COVID?

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Why?

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Antibodies.

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Laugh on.

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Very good.

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Okay.

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Well, good on you in the chat room.

Speaker:

You've been going off in there and, um, uh, that's good to see.

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Uh, we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.

Speaker:

I don't know what I'm going to do next week.

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Um, I might even speak to the Velvet Glove.

Speaker:

I haven't mentioned it to him.

Speaker:

But we'll see what we've got organized.

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Um, uh, I read this book, which I was sure I was going to end

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up doing a book review on.

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And.

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I actually wasted a fair number of days in the holidays.

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You know when you get a book and you think, Oh, I'm

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starting to, it's hard work.

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I really persevered with it.

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And it was a book that was really talking about, this is progression in human

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evolution that says, we were hunter gatherers and we were egalitarian.

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Then when we discovered agriculture and we formed cities, we then had

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hierarchies which led to inequality.

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And it was just a sort of a natural thing of, once we coalesced together,

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we had inequality and hierarchy.

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And the book was basically showing lots of examples, particularly in

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South America and North American Indian tribes, where they got quite

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large, were hunter gatherers, were not agrarian, but um, quite large cities,

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and they were quite egalitarian.

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Anyway, I persevered with it, and it was really hard work.

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I spent a lot of hours on it.

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And, and then Then I got to the footnotes, or the endnotes.

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Like, there was, there was like 40 pages of endnotes.

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I was working my way through those.

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It's crazy, I know.

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As I tell it, it's ridiculous.

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Anyway, I've, one of the footnotes was about, uh, referred to Bruce

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Pascoe and his book Dark Emu, and was glowing about, about it.

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And I was like, oh no!

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If you guys writing this book have taken Bruce Pascoe's word on all his stuff,

Speaker:

Then I can't trust any of the stuff that you've said about any of these North

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American and South American tribes at all And I was like, oh just wasted so many

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hours I should have just abandoned it So I

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stopped reading and started doing watercolors then on my holidays

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Yeah, there you go, so there's a lesson for you if you're working

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if a book becomes just hard work give up early That's what you've

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done Alright, dear listener.

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Suncoast fallacy.

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Yeah, it was indeed.

Speaker:

Yep, I fell for that one.

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Alright, dear listeners, in the chat room, thanks for your comments.

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I'll be back next week with something and we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.

Speaker:

We'll talk to you then.

Speaker:

Bye for now.

Speaker:

Good night.

Speaker:

That's a good night from him.

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The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
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